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Update — January 19, 2024

We are concluding this experiment effective January 19 and the module will no longer appear for users.

The objective was to increase traffic to the Collectives-specific content types, and the module did not drive any significant increase.

Additionally, we saw that traffic from Stack Overflow to Meta Stack Overflow and the Overflow Blog did not have any significant change in either direction.

We have no immediate plans to revisit this specific experiment. The idea of highlighting content from Collectives and/or Discussions in a right sidebar module may be something we return to in the future.

Update — November 15, 2023

This temporary (90-day) experiment has been launched. A notable change from the initially stated matching logic is that we’re no longer matching on title, because it negatively impacted performance on the site globally.

As previously stated, the aim is to increase awareness of and engagement with the collective-specific content types.

Based on early testing, we expect:

  • 15-20% of all questions in a collective may have the module displayed
  • Around 5% of all questions on Stack Overflow may have the module displayed

If you would like to provide feedback about the module’s content on Question pages that you visit, please do so on this post.




We’re working on better discovery and awareness for Collectives™ on Stack Overflow and will be experimenting with a change to question pages that have a tag associated with a collective.

Background

Research has shown that even when users find and join a collective, they are not always aware of the new features or content coming from that space. We’ve seen interest in the new content types (collections, articles, and now discussions) but there is a clear lack of awareness that these features even exist. We believe users should be delivered content relevant to their needs and this includes Collectives. We won’t truly know how valuable these new features are unless we provide improved pathways and discovery for those features.

The current discovery paths focus on the overall awareness of the subcommunity only. One of the higher trafficked pathways is through the collective badge (currently found at the top of the right sidebar on questions that have a collective tag).

Example of the current collectives badge that appears on the right sidebar

However, we’ve also heard feedback that some users gloss over this badge for varying reasons; the right sidebar is ignored altogether or they assume it’s an ad. Additionally, we’ve seen there’s a preference and increased traffic for the Related questions section.

Hypothesis

We believe by boosting discovery and awareness of Collectives, we will see more Members join and participate, which in turn will help these subcommunities continue to contribute high quality content.

A community with increasing membership and activity is an indication of healthy growth. This growing population of contributors is critical to ensuring the body of knowledge evolves & stays relevant. Stack Overflow has a responsibility to raise awareness about and highlight the products we're building.

We know that most users come to our site through Google search results and try to find their answer by sifting through individual Q&A pages. Our best chance at raising that awareness is to give these users direct access to key features that are normally hidden (i.e. articles, bulletins, collections) from Q&A pages. Through better discovery of these features, we’ll be able to evaluate and iterate through real user experiences.

Experiment

So what’s actually changing for this experiment? We’re going to be replacing the community bulletin block within the right sidebar (yellow box) with related collective content. This related collective widget will be shown directly below the current collective badge and will only appear on question pages with an associated collective tag. All other question pages will remain unchanged and still continue to display the community bulletin widget. This will impact approximately 0.44% of traffic coming from the community bulletin block on a question page belonging to a collective. We’ll review the findings of the experiment after 90 days to assess the impact for collectives and evaluate the degree to which traffic to The Overflow and Meta are impacted, if at all.


Risks and constraints

Removing the current community bulletin content from that space means a potential reduction in awareness for the Overflow Blog and Meta. We are aware this is a significant change. However, we believe the upside to Collectives Discovery is worth testing and will give us additional insight into The Overflow and Meta traffic impacts. Here are the reasons for moving forward with this decision:

  • For this experiment, we needed to keep the position of the ads that currently appear in the right sidebar relative to its placement on the page (approximately within reason).
  • Based on the data, we know that the top position of the right sidebar is seen by the most users. The more a user has to scroll, the less likely it will be seen on that question page.
  • The goal of this experiment is to test discovery for collective content only and in order to test that as accurately as possible, we want to avoid making too many changes to the right sidebar (like re-ordering everything in that space) so that we can isolate any differences as much as possible.

If we see a negative impact on The Overflow blog and Meta traffic and no significant increase in collectives traffic, we would not graduate these changes and revert back to showing the community bulletin on all pages, and explore other ways to drive discovery for Collectives.

On the other hand, if we see both an increase in collectives traffic but also a significant negative impact to the blog & meta, we will experiment with further refinements (e.g. more complex rules that govern the content in the space so it can be better distributed across blog, meta, and collectives), or offsetting the impact through other discovery channels for meta and the blog (e.g. via the site navigation).


Current question page

Example of what a collective question page looks like currently


New question page

Example of what the new collective question page will look like


Our goal for this content is to prioritize relevancy over other criteria.

  • Only up to 4 posts will be shown in this widget. These could be a combination of bulletins, articles, collections and/or discussions — tag relevancy will determine which has priority. Question posts will not appear in this widget because there are already several other areas within the page that show relevant questions.
  • We’ll start by using title and tag matching to determine how relevant a post may be to a question. For example, we would prioritize showing a post that matches 4 out of 4 tags over another that shows only 3 out of 4.
  • A minimum amount of matched tags will be required to show any related post. If there isn’t a strong enough match (0 related collective posts), the community bulletin will remain visible.
  • If a question page has tags from more than one collective, we would still prioritize relevancy to the question — there could be posts from both collectives shown in the widget.

Design thinking

As part of this initiative, we’re making minor visual changes to the badge and chose a slightly different layout for these content types compared to the other question links within the right sidebar.

Legend explaining each piece and section of the badge with one or more collectives


Rationale

  • We chose not to display the post score for these content types and use icons instead (similar to Hot Network Questions). Our assumption is that the title will be the primary indicator for determining whether a piece of content is of interest to a user. We also wanted to keep all post link titles left aligned down the entire sidebar to help with legibility and scannability of the page.
  • For the collective content, we opted to use icons to help with visually identifying the different types of posts that could appear here. We chose not to use a collective logo (like on Hot Network Questions) since this would be the same logo appearing up to 4 times in most cases. Even in the rarer case of a multi collective question page, knowing which collective the post was from didn’t seem as valuable.
  • The different content types are new and less known. In order to help build recognition for the icons and meet better accessibility standards, we decided to add the content type within the metadata line as well. The other piece of metadata shown will be different for each content type — based on what is most important per type.

A designer’s easter egg

A response from starball in an answer to visual changes to the current community bulletin’s yellow box really resonated with us.

It always felt like yellow notepad paper to me in my mind

We decided to lean into this idea as a source of inspiration and look at visual representations of notebooks, post-it and the original legal yellow pad of paper. We wanted to give a visual nod to the original design. This type of thing is less common for the site but it would be fun to have a few more of these moments in the future.

  • The top left corner of the badge is not rounded on purpose to represent the typically harder header piece of a legal pad where individual pages can be ripped from.
  • This sharper corner also points towards the title of the question creating a stronger relationship between the widget and the question.
  • There’s extra left padding within the list so that the items feel like they are ‘under’ and part of the collective badge. This is similar to how you would write on a legal pad of yellow paper, not directly on the left edge but with some spacing.
  • The informational sentence at the bottom uses a divider line instead of its current boxed border to mimic the vertical lines typically found on a yellow notepad.

What does success look like?

We’ll be looking measuring the effectiveness of this widget by tracking the following metrics and comparing them to our current sidebar badge data:

Primary

  • Increase in the clickthrough rate for the right sidebar widget (total of all content links)

Secondary

  • Increase in new membership join rate (incoming from right sidebar widget)
  • Increase in monthly Collectives pageviews
  • Increase in monthly unique visitors to collectives
  • Clicks on specific content types (articles, discussions, bulletins, collections)

Our ask

We may improve the logic for which posts are shown in this widget and are willing to add more complexity once we see the initial results. Our goal is to show content that is relevant and potentially valuable to the individual user viewing a question page. Please feel free to share any feedback by September 22nd on how we can improve the relevancy (e.g. targeting title matching or user based criteria based on rep levels or privileges) or information shown with each post (e.g. what single piece of metadata is most important for you for each type).

Additionally, if you have any feedback about the design of the widget (e.g. consistency with other elements and the visual nod to notepads), please don’t hesitate to share your thoughts.

We plan to review the results after 90 days and share an update to this post with the findings shortly thereafter.

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    I mean, half the time it is an ad, so,
    – Kevin B
    Commented Sep 14, 2023 at 14:40
  • 31
    Not again... This appears to also axe the featured tag in the process Commented Sep 14, 2023 at 14:48
  • 29
    What is the real rationale for wanting to replace Meta with Collectives? There have been so many good arguments against it. Why do we constantly have to fight for Meta? Commented Sep 14, 2023 at 14:52
  • 7
    That yellow box is usually the way I find out about these feature updates, are you sure this isn't just a way to hide away from the negative feedback about collectives/discussions etc?
    – Sayse
    Commented Sep 14, 2023 at 14:55
  • 3
    "We believe by boosting discovery and awareness of Collectives, we will see more Members join and participate, which in turn will help these subcommunities continue to contribute high quality content." If we force feed this to people then they cannot avoid it and so it will grow... nice.
    – takendarkk
    Commented Sep 14, 2023 at 17:39
  • 4
    I haven't really paid much attention to Collectives except to notice they seem to be a magnet for off-topic questions. Am I going to have to care about this and start paying attention? Will it be important to anybody except the company? Commented Sep 14, 2023 at 20:58
  • 4
    @cocomac Development has not started on this initiative yet, we’re currently estimating it would launch sometime in October or November.
    – Berthold StaffMod
    Commented Sep 14, 2023 at 21:21
  • 4
    "they assume it’s an ad" tbf based on the preview screenshots it looks like an ad. It's actually less confusing with adblock! I think the design is nice though (if it were to include meta posts). The images under the "Design Thinking" header are pretty good if you take them on their own merit
    – GammaGames
    Commented Sep 14, 2023 at 22:54
  • 19
    Communities are utter nonsense. Pushing and advertising them more will achieve exactly zero and you are doing it at the expense of really important community posts. This will go well...
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Sep 15, 2023 at 8:52
  • 3
    Some experiments I can support, some I can understand, this one is neither. Commented Sep 15, 2023 at 15:24
  • 3
    My honest feedback: the best thing you can do about this is nothing. Leave it as-is, and fix things that need fixing, like the search and improving the chat, mobile responsiveness and others. Why remove actually important information? Commented Sep 16, 2023 at 2:47
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    sorta off topic, but the repeated calling it Collectives™ with the trademark symbol and all I initially thought it was a joke and made me think that it wasn't an official post for a second Commented Sep 16, 2023 at 13:57
  • 2
    I thought more about it and testing the feature with the meta box removed doesn't make any sense unless that is the goal. Even temporarily removing this box is not a solution. The real solution is to make an experiment with exactly the layout you want to have in the end. And why would A/B testing take 90 days? A/B testing would prolong the experiment phase at most by a factor of 2 (i.e. if you equally put users into A and B) but not more. Commented Sep 16, 2023 at 16:13
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    Seems to start from a faulty premise: That folks don't join collectives because they don't know about it; rather than it not offering any useful reason to join. Commented Sep 20, 2023 at 17:49
  • 3
    @SyedM.Sannan eh, it's not necessarily wrong to hold back negative opinions provided in private to attempt to not paint the picture in public to get a new, hopefully untainted opinion of the result. it's just not really feasible, given the users giving feedback in private are generally users very invested in the network that will absolutely re-share promptly, ;)
    – Kevin B
    Commented Sep 23, 2023 at 15:52

6 Answers 6

77

If we see a negative impact on The Overflow blog and Meta traffic and no significant increase in collectives traffic, we would not graduate these changes and revert back to showing the community bulletin on all pages, and explore other ways to drive discovery for Collectives.

You do know you just completely killed the community's ability to have announcements and any outreach to users who don't regularly use meta, right?

Removing HMP is one thing (we can compensate with more featuring), but this makes the tag completely useless. This affects burninations, rule changes, and discussions that require involvement from users on main that don't regularly visit meta unless they see something featured or in HMP, as well as announcements from both the community and to a lesser degree, staff1. All of these are irregular sources of traffic that are difficult to benchmark under normal-ish circumstances.

This also prevents featured posts on MSE from displaying on SO, which is mostly announcements of network-wide concern.

There are many people whose only interaction with SO is question pages. As collectives inevitably (and unfortunately) expand, the problem will get worse, and more and more people lose the currently only way we have of getting outside attention to stuff on meta. It might not affect that many questions now, with just 9 or whatever collectives, but what about when there's 100? Or generally, a sufficiently large amount where there are more questions in collectives than outside them?

There's absolutely no positive to gain here; by removing links to meta, and particularly by obliterating featured posts, you're doing orders of magnitude more damage than good, regardless of what your interpretation of the data indicates after the fact.


1: Staff can use banners rather than using the featured tag, which is why the impact for them is significantly smaller. However, the community doesn't have that luxury. It took 9 months to get an initial draft for an AI-generated content policy banner, a community-driven policy. On the other hand, a banner announcing the new search, which is also a new banner type, was ready significantly faster, and up in under a day after the meta post going live. This disregards the increasing impact of banner blindness though, but SE's (ab)use of banners is an entire discussion onto itself.


Response: (by staff)

This is also a response to some of the initial comments on this post. We want to strongly reiterate that this is an experiment about content discovery.

We absolutely agree that the Community Bulletin has high value, for the reasons articulated, and this is well understood. There is no intent to permanently remove easy access to Meta or featured posts. Its absence from the experiment is solely to make the results of the experiment more clear so we can make accurate assessments.. We endeavored to make this clear in the Risks & Assessments section:

we want to avoid making too many changes to the right sidebar (like re-ordering everything in that space) so that we can isolate any differences as much as possible.

but we recognize that the initial impact of these visuals is causing the concern.

if we see … a significant negative impact to the blog & meta, we will experiment with further refinements (e.g. more complex rules that govern the content in the space so it can be better distributed across blog, meta, and collectives), or offsetting the impact through other discovery channels for meta and the blog (e.g. via the site navigation).

This is a commitment to keeping Meta links and connections a priority as we explore changes to site navigation. As Zoe’s answer notes, the company benefits from visibility of Meta content, just as the community does.

The purpose of this post is to preview this experiment for the community and gather feedback about specific aspects, as stated in the Our Ask section at the bottom.

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    But, but, it’s not welcoming enough to have a fat link stating that genAI is banned! Commented Sep 14, 2023 at 15:08
  • 4
    I had to read the announcement 3 times just to be sure. The mind boggles over this decision. Thanks for clearly laying out some key concerns regarding this.
    – QHarr
    Commented Sep 14, 2023 at 17:30
  • 37
    "There is no intent to permanently remove easy access to Meta or featured posts. Its absence from the experiment is solely to make the results of the experiment more clear so we can make accurate assessments" - this doesn't sound like good research methodology. If you're planning to preserve the bulletin, you're not actually testing how the module would perform in its actual environment when deployed, nor how it would affect the other stuff in the sidebar Commented Sep 14, 2023 at 18:05
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    To be fair: "will only appear on question pages with an associated collective tag. All other question pages will remain unchanged and still continue to display the community bulletin widget. This will impact approximately 0.44% of traffic coming from the community bulletin" Commented Sep 15, 2023 at 6:44
  • 3
    @HolyBlackCat - of current traffic, an ever increasing number as collectives are pushed more
    – Sayse
    Commented Sep 15, 2023 at 8:28
  • 7
    @HolyBlackCat quoting myself, " might not affect that many questions now, with just 9 or whatever collectives, but what about when there's 100? Or generally, a sufficiently large amount where there are more questions in collectives than outside them? ". If they axe the bulletin on some posts now, that means collectives growing is bad for meta, and the effects will increase as collective coverage goes up. It's 0.44% now; when it's 44%, that's when we really start struggling Commented Sep 15, 2023 at 9:40
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    Rephrasing my last comment because a staff member deleted it over a single word: if SE is, in fact, planning to bring back the bulletin to their design if the experiment graduates (which I still have my doubts about to be honest, but we'll just have to wait and see at this point), that won't be a problem. That would mean the problem is only for the duration of a poorly executed experiment, and we'll live. If it's removed permanently, that's when the scaling problem applies, and it's a risk that has to be addressed immediately. Commented Sep 15, 2023 at 17:49
47

Collectives, the thing that is being pushed as a sense of community and a bit of a superficial place for people to work together is being promoted even higher than Meta or announcements, where a lot of actually important announcements and discussions about the site and the community take place happen.

Got it.

This is overly blunt, but this design just feels both insulting and deliberate. We, the community out here on Meta, have had an uneasy truce with what Collective are, but now it's being touted as the main feature for some people.

After an era in which the community practically revolted behind some policy changes, this sure feels like salt in the relatively fresh wounds. I feel less optimistic to provide feedback for this since it just doesn't feel...like y'all are listening to us, really.

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    They're not only quite obsessed with collectives, they also have no clue which parts of the website are important and shouldn't be removed under any circumstances, it seems. Who would have thought that. Commented Sep 14, 2023 at 19:28
  • 4
    @NoDataDumpNoContribution I mean the management does seem hellbent on replacing as much of SO with their LLM chatbots that no one really wants
    – Ja Da
    Commented Sep 18, 2023 at 9:41
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  1. Why does the community bulletin even need to be removed to show this new thing?

    The goal of this experiment is to test discovery for collective content only and in order to test that as accurately as possible, we want to avoid making too many changes to the right sidebar

    Is it not a bigger change to remove something than to just put it below the new thing?

    we needed to keep the position of the ads that currently appear in the right sidebar relative to its placement on the page

    I can understand that for agreements made between the company and advertisers for the visibility of their ads, but then why not put the community bulletin under the ads? That would still be a fate lesser than total removal.

  2. Is this not an A/B test? If it's not an A/B test, why? School has started again. There's going to be more traffic than there was in the Summer, no?

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    (1/4) #1 Correct, our current agreements with advertisers prevents us from being able to substantially change the position of the ad. If we were to move the community bulletin below the ad, we would then be shifting down everything else below that. This would result in a disruption to even more widgets on the right sidebar including the community bulletin (it still would have a change of location), related/linked questions, hot network questions, related tags, etc.
    – Carrott StaffMod
    Commented Sep 15, 2023 at 21:01
  • 2
    (2/4) #1 (continued) Each of those widgets have their own value, goals and metrics that we track. For this experiment, we decided to replace one widget instead of moving all of them.
    – Carrott StaffMod
    Commented Sep 15, 2023 at 21:01
  • 2
    (3/4) #2 We strongly considered running this experiment as an A/B test initially. There is a much smaller percentage of questions associated with a collective compared to all of Stack Overflow. Unfortunately, in order to get a proper sample size of users seeing both the base and experimental version of the same question page, the A/B test would have needed to run for a very long time (much more than 90 days). This method gets us answers much faster with the same development effort.
    – Carrott StaffMod
    Commented Sep 15, 2023 at 21:02
  • 2
    (4/4) Overall (and this is in response to other questions about methodology), I agree that this implementation is not sustainable if collectives were to scale significantly. The “final” behavior of the sidebar widgets (including this new one in the mix) is still to be determined. We want to experiment and learn quickly as much as we can in order to make the best decisions while balancing all the different goals.
    – Carrott StaffMod
    Commented Sep 15, 2023 at 21:03
  • 2
    @Carog Those comments make me feel much better about this, thank you. I appreciate your time spent responding here. Commented Sep 18, 2023 at 20:59
  • @Carog This does not make any sense to me at all. I just opened the inspect element, made a copy of the current "Overflow Blog + Featured" section, and pasted it inside the same sidebar container. And guess what? wherever I put it inside there, it simply moves the component below it... right below it, and it moves itself right under the component that is above it in the code. So I don't understand how many components you would need to "move" to simply add a new block in there. It's not like everything in the container is absolutely positioned, is it? (I checked, it's not :P) Commented Sep 23, 2023 at 14:52
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    @SyedM.Sannan I assumed the point was about moving things visually+positionally in the rendered page- not moving things in the source code.
    – starball
    Commented Sep 23, 2023 at 17:53
  • @starball I am not sure if I understand you correctly, but by moving things in the source code, it have an impact on how it looks like. You may check my answer and the video included therein regarding this. Reordering elements in the sidebar, and adding new elements (A fancy looking block in this case), and reordering them in the frontend seems to have no negative effect. So I fail to understand what this "disruption" in the interface that Carog mentioned exactly is. Commented Sep 23, 2023 at 17:56
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    @SyedM.Sannan I'm assuming they mean they don't want to shift the "linked", "related", and "hot network posts" side content down.
    – starball
    Commented Sep 23, 2023 at 18:14
  • @starball Well, why would they not? I am sorry if I am not able to understand this properly but if there are any ad requirements regarding positioning the ads foremost, then I don't think that there should be a problem with whatever the site places below the ad. Would it? And in the design they proposed, they did in fact shift "related", and "linked" posts down, they just for whatever reason entirely removed the HNP section, while, from what it seems, there would be no interface disruption in simply moving that section below the new one. Commented Sep 23, 2023 at 21:24
  • Again, it could be me just misunderstanding them, so please correct me if that's the case, but I just don't seem to get why any ad placement restrictions would impact the placement of this HNP section below [the new section] and not above it. Because tbh, I can accept having the companies prioritize their ads above that, but why get rid of it entirely? And secondly, there clearly is no disruption in the UI itself when we move the HNP section down from what I've tested and shown in the video. So really, what are their reasonings besides those two? Commented Sep 23, 2023 at 21:26
4

Your problem is collectives are so segregated.

I'm a returning Stack Overflow member and I feel left out.

If you want collectives to work you need to actually incorporate them into the existing site.

From the get go, you need to make a collective for all the popular programming languages or frameworks.

If someone is answering a question tagged , they should automatically be contributing to the Java collective and earning towards whatever new achievement system there is.
(Bonus: there's no Java collective at this time)

We believe by boosting discovery and awareness of Collectives, we will see more Members join and participate

Whatever work you're doing is a complete waste of time.

Remove the member system, make it be auto join as soon as someone contributes to a tagged question.

3
  • The thing about collectives is that a lot of them are big-tech-corp-sponsored. The way I, and many others understand it, they are trying to make StackOverflow more appealing to the huge tech companies and are trying their best to guard their interests here. You may view a few more posts regarding this entire thing of shoving collectives down everyone's throats and you'll get the point. And btw, welcome back :) Commented Sep 29, 2023 at 13:17
  • 2
    Yes, it seems like they are making something they know people will hate and then trying to shove it in their faces. Why not make something they know people will love and integrate it into the site directly. Also, thanks! I finally got edit review queue privilege so I have something new to be addicted to :) Commented Sep 29, 2023 at 17:04
  • @CausingUnderflowsEverywhere such a thing doesn't exist.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Sep 29, 2023 at 17:05
2

This answer is a follow-up query to Carog's response to starball's answer.

Dear Carog, you responded to starball's answer with this comment and a few other ones following it:

(1/4) #1 Correct, our current agreements with advertisers prevents us from being able to substantially change the position of the ad. If we were to move the community bulletin below the ad, we would then be shifting down everything else below that. This would result in a disruption to even more widgets on the right sidebar including the community bulletin (it still would have a change of location), related/linked questions, hot network questions, related tags, etc. (Text emphasis added by me)

To which I responded:

@Carog This does not make any sense to me at all. I just opened the inspect element, made a copy of the current "Overflow Blog + Featured" section, and pasted it inside the same sidebar container. And guess what? wherever I put it inside there, it simply moves the component below it... right below it, and it moves itself right under the component that is above it in the code. So I don't understand how many components you would need to "move" to simply add a new block in there. It's not like everything in the container is absolutely positioned, is it? (I checked, it's not :P) –

In case that may be unclear, a visual representation of what I am trying to say is included in this video where I copy and paste multiple sidebar components in different order inside it to see if it would cause any disruption to its sibling elements and the sidebar itself.

After doing so, it looks like it does not cause any problems and humbly aligns itself properly either under or above the other elements depending on where it was pasted.

So my question is, what is the said disruption to the sidebar contents that you are talking about? I, personally, have no problem in actually having this new section and getting the "Overflow Blog + Featured" section below it if you have a certain ad policy that requires it to be fixed above (As I understand it, a bit odd though, but okay). I normally use a zoomed-in interface to read properly, so I already have to scroll a bit to reach that section and would have no problem with scrolling a bit more. I would assume that most people won't have a problem as well, but we can learn more about that with further feedback.

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    As mentioned in the original post: "Based on the data, we know that the top position of the right sidebar is seen by the most users. The more a user has to scroll, the less likely it will be seen on that question page."
    – Carrott StaffMod
    Commented Sep 26, 2023 at 19:52
  • 1
    And in one of my comments to starball: "(2/4) #1 (continued) Each of those widgets have their own value, goals and metrics that we track. For this experiment, we decided to replace one widget instead of moving all of them."
    – Carrott StaffMod
    Commented Sep 26, 2023 at 19:52
  • 1
    The “disruption” would be related to the traffic we see from every other widget on the right sidebar. By moving anything on the right sidebar (up or down), we risk changing the current traffic patterns we’re seeing for those links. It would be much harder to know if those changes were due to them being lower on the page or just because the new widget is present. We’d like to keep any data change we see, from this experiment, as clear as possible.
    – Carrott StaffMod
    Commented Sep 26, 2023 at 19:53
  • Wouldn't launching a new widget in that place with a new design inherently skew the results?
    – Kevin B
    Commented Sep 26, 2023 at 19:58
  • 1
    @KevinB Yes. Adding anything new will skew results to some degree. We're trying to limit the amount skewing.
    – Carrott StaffMod
    Commented Sep 26, 2023 at 20:02
  • 1
    @Carog i would expect that to mean releasing the change without a design change, or with both widgets getting the design change, seems a bit counter productive to test both a new design and different content in the same test
    – Kevin B
    Commented Sep 26, 2023 at 20:48
  • Tbh, I can barely follow along with this, perhaps my level of expertise in understanding UX design and beta testing is not enough to understand what @Carog is trying to say. But I request you guys to move this feature somewhere else, still very much visible and highlighted on the site. Knowing what goes on in meta and improving the site with the discussion therein, is in my opinion, and clearly in the opinion of most people here, much more necessary than the entire existence of collectives. Commented Sep 27, 2023 at 7:47
-1

First and foremost:

PLEASE DO NOT REPLACE THE COMMUNITY BULLETIN!

I don't care if you add big boxes about collectives above and below, but don't remove the stuff we need!

Second, I don't think this will help collectives much. I can only speak for myself, but I have so far seen collectives as ads for companies, sometimes by proxy of their products. They get their logo next to some tags, they get a badge next to questions, and then there's also some way of "joining" a collective and I guess there's text there or something? I never clicked on any of that, so I wouldn't know. I guess I imagined that employees from those companies would post stuff there or something. I'm not interested in that, but I don't care that it's there. Whatever.

Now, I did look at two collectives just now, and I'm still none the wiser. I see you can filter questions there, but you can already do that with the normal search. I see "bulletins", which are always empty, I see "articles", which looks like I'm being asked to peer-review blog posts, and... that's it. I don't understand who has what kind of control on a collective page. I don't understand whether they're managed and moderated by companies, or the community. I don't understand if there's any sort of reputation or privilege to be gained within a collective. And ultimately, this means I don't understand why I should join a collective, or care about its existence at all.

I'm sure I could find the answers to those questions if I was motivated enough to do so, but that's exactly the point: I'm not. If you want to promote collectives, this is what you have to fix.

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