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Note for context: this post is part of a series about Collectives on Stack Overflow.  To read the full series, begin at this primary post.

This post is to provide detail and clarity around the commercial vision for Collectives™ on Stack Overflow, which has been at the core of the community’s concerns about this product. We can think of the Collectives that exist so far as being provider-specific, focusing on a provider's technology ecosystem or platform. Hence, they are currently dependent on the continued sponsorship of a single organization.

As announced here, in the coming months, we will be expanding Collectives into new topic areas that aren't provider-specific. We expect these new Collectives to soon become the typical experience of Collectives on Stack Overflow, with the community taking the lead in terms of content curation (article oversight, answer recommendation). As I’ve noted in another post, we’ll be reaching out to subject matter experts in the community (based on their contributions in the topic areas) to form the initial groups that will help establish each collective. Administration of these collectives (user management and configuration/settings) will be done by Community Managers in consultation with those groups, at least in the near term. We also expect these collectives to be more numerous than provider-specific collectives.

Sponsorship is how we plan to monetize Collectives; however, we're in the early stages of defining what that will look like as we expand Collectives to topic areas that aren't provider-specific. Sponsorship won’t be a requirement for a non-provider collective, and there will not be any sponsors when the first ones launch. Eventually, a collective may have one sponsor or multiple, concurrent sponsors. Below are some specific commitments we can make to the community about collective sponsorship, and one potential example of how a sponsor would be represented within a collective.

The conference analogy

But first, I’d like to again present an analogy that may be helpful – the idea that a Collective is a developer conference that is always going on.

Participants (at a conference) attend due to their enthusiasm for, or interest in learning about, a particular area of practice. Some learn by listening, others learn by contributing and collaborating. A developer conference focused on an area of practice usually will not have one exclusive sponsor, since there's typically no single organization behind a broad area of practice. Rather, there are multiple sponsors, looking to support the attendees who are active in that subject area. This is how we see the standard type of collective – already-established, community-led spaces on Stack Overflow that are focused on the areas of practice where potential sponsors operate.

A developer conference might also be sponsored solely by a particular company/provider, and so the specific focus is on their suite of products. This is how we see the provider-specific collectives like the ones that have been launched up to this point. A provider collective exists because of the sponsorship, established in collaboration with the sponsor. The closer relationship between the provider, Stack Overflow, and the user community carries additional benefits for everyone involved. With provider collectives, we have a unique opportunity to build connections between organizations and the most engaged users of their products. 

Our commitments to you

With provider-led collectives, the additional input of the sponsor on article creation/review and answer recommendation are part of this mutual benefit. The technology providers have a valuable perspective and can speak in an official capacity where appropriate, supporting developers working with their products. We do recognize that this creates concern around the objective nature of such content. We will continue to work through those concerns with the community.

We put forth some additional commitments to the community with regard to how we'll approach sponsorship for collectives that aren't provider-specific.

  • Collective sponsors pay for visibility but not control. The collective’s impact on knowledge content — articles and recommendation of answers — will be in the hands of the community members who have demonstrated their knowledge and impact in the collective's area of focus.

  • A collective does not depend on sponsorship to continue existing. Sponsors may come and go, as with other sponsorship instances on Stack Overflow and Stack Exchange sites. Like those other scenarios, the health of the content and the engagement of the established community will determine the direction of the collective.

  • Sponsorship will always bring value to the community. As Teresa (our Chief Product and Community Officer) noted in the early days of Collectives, a diverse revenue model helps keep Stack Exchange stable and invest more in user functionality to bring value to the community. With all collectives, we are aiming to expand opportunities for learning and collaboration on Stack Overflow, and sponsorships support these efforts.

Here’s one potential example of how a sponsor could be represented within a collective — and I want to stress that this is only an idea: Let's say we introduced a newsletter feature that provided members with a digest showcasing recent content from the collective. A sponsor could be given some form of space within the newsletter which would be clearly identified as promoted content. Again, this is just an example, meant to illustrate that we’re looking beyond the models that exist today but still keeping a focus on maintaining content objectivity and independence.

Based on our commitments shared in this post, do you have any questions or concerns about collective sponsorships that we can answer below? What are your thoughts on how we can best support the community using this sponsorship model?

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    That means that even areas without a sponsor are not safe from this useless feature? Hell no, I hope you don't have any plans to introduce collectives in the tags I frequent.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Feb 2, 2023 at 13:33
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    One thing I really like about StackOverflow is that it's not biased towards a certain stack/framework/software provider. Many sites on the Internet are quite biased and recommend a certain framework for a certain task which might not necessarily be the best tool for the job. SO in comparison is relatively neutral. I hope it stays like that. I wouldn't like to see sponsors distorting this in any way (I know it's not meant to be like that but who can exactly predict how things will turn out in practice...) Commented Feb 2, 2023 at 16:23

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There's a lot of these kinds of posts to peruse today-ish, so my responses will be highly disjointed.

While I'm quite glad that you're providing this information and making this commitment to the community, it comes well after this has been...for lack of a better expression...imposed on us regardless of if we agree with it or not. This imposition, at least from my perspective, has foregone any level of trust that you may presume or expect of us.

I'm a bit like a caged dog who's not been fed in a while, and I'm instantly wary of y'all trying to throw me a bone. So don't mind the growling too much when you throw the bone.

But, if you'll receive this feedback then I'll provide it...

  • Collective sponsors pay for visibility but not control. The collective’s impact on knowledge content — articles and recommendation of answers — will be in the hands of the community members who have demonstrated their knowledge and impact in the collective's area of focus.

Community members can't moderate Collectives. There is a palpable sense of apprehension in moderating Collectives, since that's someone else's dime and we're just a group of jerks who like closing and downvoting things humble site curators. In this commitment I don't see anything that speaks to attempting to close that gap. Can you make it clear?

  • A collective does not depend on sponsorship to continue existing. Sponsors may come and go, as with other sponsorship instances on Stack Overflow and Stack Exchange sites. Like those other scenarios, the health of the content and the engagement of the established community will determine the direction of the collective.

Why have a Collective at all if it's not sponsored? Who would use it? Who would engage with it, if there's no motivation to? My concern is mostly rooted out in low-traffic or niche interests, in which there could be enough engagement from the perspective of the project but not enough engagement from the perspective of this Collective service. At the end of the day, running this isn't free and it isn't like y'all just want to throw money at this indefinitely.

  • Sponsorship will always bring value to the community. As Teresa (our Chief Product and Community Officer) noted in the early days of Collectives, a diverse revenue model helps keep Stack Exchange stable and invest more in user functionality to bring value to the community. With all collectives, we are aiming to expand opportunities for learning and collaboration on Stack Overflow, and sponsorships support these efforts.

You have not stated what value you bring. I still find this highly insulting. You're saying that this is good for us but we're very much not enthralled about it tells me, in the kindest and most optimistic way possible, that your meaning of "value" is different from my meaning of "value".

Spell it out. Tell us what we're getting out of this, or we'll keep assuming we're not getting anything out of this. (And we'll keep telling ourselves the story that this is just typical Stack Overflow Inc. behavior, and that what we get is the privilege to whinge on their platform, or that the lights have to stay on somehow (and I think that's actually how I reached the original conclusion that this was meant to be the profit stream)).

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    "Tell us what we're getting out of this" a single page that is a combination leaderboard + question list and a clique of high rep "experts" who get to decide which posts are worthy of being recognized
    – Kevin B
    Commented Feb 1, 2023 at 22:05
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    @KevinB: So Stack Overflow all over again, or...?
    – Makoto
    Commented Feb 1, 2023 at 22:13
  • Yes, what's the value? I don't get it. It can't be the recommendations, those could be determined by say gold tag badges. Why not just let sponsors sponsor tags? Why the need to make a community that's artificial? Commented Feb 8, 2023 at 21:45
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It's not exactly surprising that adding another form of gamification (a new leaderboard and a pretty panel on your profile) would draw users to interact in ways that tell you it is valuable, whether temporarily or long term. It's also not surprising that, for the same reasons, one would stay in the collective regardless of whether or not it's actually providing them any value.

I joined the AWS collective for the purpose of seeing what, if anything, changes by being a member of a collective since AWS happens to be an area I'm interested in, and... I don't see what value it provides outside of the flair (ad?) on my profile and yet another leaderboard. There's nowhere in the collective for interacting with other developers that didn't already exist by going to my interesting questions tab. It's... just a question list. Even the articles they've posted are terrible compared to the full blown step by step guides they have on their own knowledge platform.

I don't see what anyone can gain by being part of a collective that isn't a gimmick or trick to further advertise the sponsor on individual user's profile pages. Get rid of the sponsor and... now the collective isn't even paying the bills... it loses it's one benefit.

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    Exactly. This is what I don't understand. If Collectives is providing revenue to Stack Overflow to keep the lights on, then, aside from the severe content-quality issues in Articles, I don't have a real beef with it. It doesn't hurt the experience of SO, and there are aspects of it I've wanted to like, especially the "sponsored tags on steroids" aspect, such as the leaderboards (which are similar to "top users" in a tag) and even the ability to designate recognized experts (which could certainly be abused, but so far has tended to be used benignly). But without a sponsor paying for it—why?
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Feb 4, 2023 at 1:09
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    To me it's effectively... It'd be a whole lot easier to just let users decide to "feature" a tag (or several) on their profile than to have collectives, and if it happens to be a sponsored tag, the sponsor shows up too. If we want to also have articles, let them exist too. :shrug: if they're CW-like in that they aren't SODocs style Rep magnets, they'd be a valuable form of long-form content curated by tag experts.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Feb 4, 2023 at 1:21
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I don't quite understand how non-provider-specific collectives like R are going to work. Who will put in work and why?

Who will want to write articles? I can think of two options:

  • The kind of people who currently post articles on Medium, e.g. as part of TowardsDataScience
  • Or will they come mostly from sponsors who get rights to publish a number of articles based on their sponsorship tier?

More importantly, who will voluntarily curate articles?

  • Will anyone voluntarily review and edit Medium style articles for free? Really? Especially subject matter experts have better things to do with their time.
  • I can't imagine community subject matter experts interacting with sponsor articles so this will have to be done by paid staff, too commercially sensitive otherwise.

Why introduce recommended answers as part of collectives? If recommendations from subject matter experts are a good thing, why only introduce them for communities? Why not let gold badge tag holders recommend answers on their tags? That requires much less overhead of creating communities and seems more natural.

Did I miss anything? Collectives seem to boil down to that. The full list is here: Collectives: Overview of features and community management

There seems to be no reason why one needs collectives for the articles. It's all rather contrived.

Provider-specific communities make some sense for me. There's a clear value proposition for the provider. But non-provider-specific communities? Do they serve to make communities feel more "natural" to make provider-specific communities fit in better? I don't get it (yet).

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    My understanding is they want collectives to be what they're describing them as; "a collective brings developers together to collaborate and learn from one another, as well as connect with subject matter experts from the community and the organizations that help build or maintain a technology product/service.". Of course, there's a lot of disagreement around whether or not what collectives currently are matches this description. I don't see where the collaboration is, how we're connecting with experts, or how people are being brought together by collectives, for example.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Feb 8, 2023 at 22:18
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    (cont.) It's recommened answers, recognized users, and articles being tied together with question lists, leaderboards, and sponsored tags. None of these tools, on their own or put together, create a community or drive collaboration. there's even been cases where recognized members existing have resulted in askers refraining from accepting an answer based on (lack of) recognized member status.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Feb 8, 2023 at 22:18
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@Makoto Your statement — “your meaning of ‘value’ is different from my meaning of ‘value’" — is absolutely accurate. Let’s also acknowledge that your meaning of “value” may not be the same as any other Stack Overflow community member. Some people have found value in a collective, and some have even noted that here on Meta. Others let us know by their interactions and continued efforts. You’ve made it clear that aspects of the current provider collectives prevent you from finding value in them. But it’s also true that you're not a member of a collective, which may be because one hasn’t existed in your area of practice. Perhaps you might find value in a Java collective, if one were to be started.

One value to the entire community is that, yes, this helps keep the lights on. If that’s not tangible enough for you then I’m not sure what else would be. The value to individual community members will vary depending on their area of practice or field of study. Just because it’s not valuable to you doesn’t mean it’s not valuable to someone else.

The collectives that can exist without sponsors will only continue to exist if they are providing value to the community, because it's community members who will be putting in the effort. If an area is too low-traffic or niche to support a collective, there won't be one in the first place. The community (of contributors as well as readers) are the ones signaling what areas of practice might be well-served by a collective.

With statements like “we'll keep assuming we're not getting anything out of this” you presume to be speaking on behalf of the whole community. We find value in your individual (and always well-spoken) feedback, just as we find value in the feedback from those who take a different viewpoint.

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    Is the privilege of keeping the lights on the only thing we're getting out of it, or the most obvious? I maintain that I had already deduced this with my original story. From my onlooker perspective, I could say that keeping the lights on could be accomplished with more aggressive ads or even more time spent with the Stack Overflow Jobs product. Neither of those needed to introduce a model of content creation that is so alien to Q&A that no one really knows how to moderate (with a lot of the heavy lifting done by diamond mods).
    – Makoto
    Commented Feb 3, 2023 at 23:43
  • I won't deny the use of "we" here since, y'know, that's how I normally speak. I don't intend to presume to speak for everyone; folks are free to form their own opinions or post their own opinions. But even still I do sense a pulse around the community about this that suggests that I'm not really alone in this perception.
    – Makoto
    Commented Feb 3, 2023 at 23:44
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    On the point of joining a collective - my biggest concern is that my content would suddenly and magically appear under a collective, supposing that one day Spring decided to come to town and lo! my answers are now a part of the Spring Collective, even if I didn't want them to be. In practice I would imagine that it's highly impractical to ask consent from everyone who's posted an answer or question ever to see if they'd want to be in a collective, so it'd be opt-out rather than opt-in.
    – Makoto
    Commented Feb 3, 2023 at 23:46
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    You're probably right about "not valuable for you doesn't mean it's not valuable for someone else", but we could fit the someone elses into a WeWork space at this point. This is the cyclic frustration - yes, someone's going to find value in this, but it comes at a cost of tearing up a lot of ground that the company laid originally around Q&A, a systemic unease around interacting with this from long-term veterans of the site, and the pervasive "this is good for us" mentality that keeps cropping up here.
    – Makoto
    Commented Feb 3, 2023 at 23:48
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    I've yet to see anyone who finds value in Collectives. Do you have references for that? "Others let us know by their interactions and continued efforts." is really not a valid interpretation. It could just mean people keep trying and end up being disappointed (like me).
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Feb 3, 2023 at 23:51
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    All of that to say, thank you for responding to my concerns, but I don't feel that it's fair to just stop there with "yes, we keep the lights on". A lot of things could keep the lights on, and I mean at least I tried to get value out of Stack Overflow Jobs in the past. The communities around technologies have already organically formed and can already share knowledge freely, and I have yet to really grasp what precisely the value add for Collectives is meant to bring. That might be the better thing to elaborate on?
    – Makoto
    Commented Feb 3, 2023 at 23:51
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    Writing an answer which is directed at another user solely because the question is a blog post is ridiculous. Stack Overflow is not a forum. I get that you are staff, but at least understand the platform you are using.
    – Travis J
    Commented Feb 4, 2023 at 6:58

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