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Makoto
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There's a lot of these kinds of posts to peruse today-ish, so my responses will be highly disjointed.

While I'm quite glad that you're providing this information and making this commitment to the community, it comes well after this has been...for lack of a better expression...imposed on us regardless of if we agree with it or not. This imposition, at least from my perspective, has foregone any level of trust that you may presume or expect of us.

I'm a bit like a caged dog who's not been fed in a while, and I'm instantly wary of y'all trying to throw me a bone. So don't mind the growling too much when you throw the bone.

But, if you'll receive this feedback then I'll provide it...

  • Collective sponsors pay for visibility but not control. The collective’s impact on knowledge content — articles and recommendation of answers — will be in the hands of the community members who have demonstrated their knowledge and impact in the collective's area of focus.

Community members can't moderate Collectives. There is a palatablepalpable sense of apprehension in moderating Collectives, since that's someone else's dime and we're just a group of jerks who like closing and downvoting things humble site curators. In this commitment I don't see anything that speaks to attempting to close that gap. Can you make it clear?

  • A collective does not depend on sponsorship to continue existing. Sponsors may come and go, as with other sponsorship instances on Stack Overflow and Stack Exchange sites. Like those other scenarios, the health of the content and the engagement of the established community will determine the direction of the collective.

Why have a Collective at all if it's not sponsored? Who would use it? Who would engage with it, if there's no motivation to? My concern is mostly rooted out in low-traffic or niche interests, in which there could be enough engagement from the perspective of the project but not enough engagement from the perspective of this Collective service. At the end of the day, running this isn't free and it isn't like y'all just want to throw money at this indefinitely.

  • Sponsorship will always bring value to the community. As Teresa (our Chief Product and Community Officer) noted in the early days of Collectives, a diverse revenue model helps keep Stack Exchange stable and invest more in user functionality to bring value to the community. With all collectives, we are aiming to expand opportunities for learning and collaboration on Stack Overflow, and sponsorships support these efforts.

You have not stated what value you bring. I still find this highly insulting. You're saying that this is good for us but we're very much not enthralled about it tells me, in the kindest and most optimistic way possible, that your meaning of "value" is different from my meaning of "value".

Spell it out. Tell us what we're getting out of this, or we'll keep assuming we're not getting anything out of this. (And we'll keep telling ourselves the story that this is just typical Stack Overflow Inc. behavior, and that what we get is the privilege to whinge on their platform, or that the lights have to stay on somehow (and I think that's actually how I reached the original conclusion that this was meant to be the profit stream)).

There's a lot of these kinds of posts to peruse today-ish, so my responses will be highly disjointed.

While I'm quite glad that you're providing this information and making this commitment to the community, it comes well after this has been...for lack of a better expression...imposed on us regardless of if we agree with it or not. This imposition, at least from my perspective, has foregone any level of trust that you may presume or expect of us.

I'm a bit like a caged dog who's not been fed in a while, and I'm instantly wary of y'all trying to throw me a bone. So don't mind the growling too much when you throw the bone.

But, if you'll receive this feedback then I'll provide it...

  • Collective sponsors pay for visibility but not control. The collective’s impact on knowledge content — articles and recommendation of answers — will be in the hands of the community members who have demonstrated their knowledge and impact in the collective's area of focus.

Community members can't moderate Collectives. There is a palatable sense of apprehension in moderating Collectives, since that's someone else's dime and we're just a group of jerks who like closing and downvoting things humble site curators. In this commitment I don't see anything that speaks to attempting to close that gap. Can you make it clear?

  • A collective does not depend on sponsorship to continue existing. Sponsors may come and go, as with other sponsorship instances on Stack Overflow and Stack Exchange sites. Like those other scenarios, the health of the content and the engagement of the established community will determine the direction of the collective.

Why have a Collective at all if it's not sponsored? Who would use it? Who would engage with it, if there's no motivation to? My concern is mostly rooted out in low-traffic or niche interests, in which there could be enough engagement from the perspective of the project but not enough engagement from the perspective of this Collective service. At the end of the day, running this isn't free and it isn't like y'all just want to throw money at this indefinitely.

  • Sponsorship will always bring value to the community. As Teresa (our Chief Product and Community Officer) noted in the early days of Collectives, a diverse revenue model helps keep Stack Exchange stable and invest more in user functionality to bring value to the community. With all collectives, we are aiming to expand opportunities for learning and collaboration on Stack Overflow, and sponsorships support these efforts.

You have not stated what value you bring. I still find this highly insulting. You're saying that this is good for us but we're very much not enthralled about it tells me, in the kindest and most optimistic way possible, that your meaning of "value" is different from my meaning of "value".

Spell it out. Tell us what we're getting out of this, or we'll keep assuming we're not getting anything out of this. (And we'll keep telling ourselves the story that this is just typical Stack Overflow Inc. behavior, and that what we get is the privilege to whinge on their platform, or that the lights have to stay on somehow (and I think that's actually how I reached the original conclusion that this was meant to be the profit stream)).

There's a lot of these kinds of posts to peruse today-ish, so my responses will be highly disjointed.

While I'm quite glad that you're providing this information and making this commitment to the community, it comes well after this has been...for lack of a better expression...imposed on us regardless of if we agree with it or not. This imposition, at least from my perspective, has foregone any level of trust that you may presume or expect of us.

I'm a bit like a caged dog who's not been fed in a while, and I'm instantly wary of y'all trying to throw me a bone. So don't mind the growling too much when you throw the bone.

But, if you'll receive this feedback then I'll provide it...

  • Collective sponsors pay for visibility but not control. The collective’s impact on knowledge content — articles and recommendation of answers — will be in the hands of the community members who have demonstrated their knowledge and impact in the collective's area of focus.

Community members can't moderate Collectives. There is a palpable sense of apprehension in moderating Collectives, since that's someone else's dime and we're just a group of jerks who like closing and downvoting things humble site curators. In this commitment I don't see anything that speaks to attempting to close that gap. Can you make it clear?

  • A collective does not depend on sponsorship to continue existing. Sponsors may come and go, as with other sponsorship instances on Stack Overflow and Stack Exchange sites. Like those other scenarios, the health of the content and the engagement of the established community will determine the direction of the collective.

Why have a Collective at all if it's not sponsored? Who would use it? Who would engage with it, if there's no motivation to? My concern is mostly rooted out in low-traffic or niche interests, in which there could be enough engagement from the perspective of the project but not enough engagement from the perspective of this Collective service. At the end of the day, running this isn't free and it isn't like y'all just want to throw money at this indefinitely.

  • Sponsorship will always bring value to the community. As Teresa (our Chief Product and Community Officer) noted in the early days of Collectives, a diverse revenue model helps keep Stack Exchange stable and invest more in user functionality to bring value to the community. With all collectives, we are aiming to expand opportunities for learning and collaboration on Stack Overflow, and sponsorships support these efforts.

You have not stated what value you bring. I still find this highly insulting. You're saying that this is good for us but we're very much not enthralled about it tells me, in the kindest and most optimistic way possible, that your meaning of "value" is different from my meaning of "value".

Spell it out. Tell us what we're getting out of this, or we'll keep assuming we're not getting anything out of this. (And we'll keep telling ourselves the story that this is just typical Stack Overflow Inc. behavior, and that what we get is the privilege to whinge on their platform, or that the lights have to stay on somehow (and I think that's actually how I reached the original conclusion that this was meant to be the profit stream)).

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Makoto
  • 106.2k
  • 120
  • 864
  • 1.3k

There's a lot of these kinds of posts to peruse today-ish, so my responses will be highly disjointed.

While I'm quite glad that you're providing this information and making this commitment to the community, it comes well after this has been...for lack of a better expression...imposed on us regardless of if we agree with it or not. This imposition, at least from my perspective, has foregone any level of trust that you may presume or expect of us.

I'm a bit like a caged dog whosewho's not been fed in a while, and I'm instantly wary of y'all trying to throw me a bone. So don't mind the growling too much when you throw the bone.

But, if you'll receive this feedback then I'll provide it...

  • Collective sponsors pay for visibility but not control. The collective’s impact on knowledge content — articles and recommendation of answers — will be in the hands of the community members who have demonstrated their knowledge and impact in the collective's area of focus.

Community members can't moderate Collectives. There is a palatable sense of apprehension in moderating Collectives, since that's someone else's dime and we're just a group of jerks who like closing and downvoting things humble site curators. In this commitment I don't see anything that speaks to attempting to close that gap. Can you make it clear?

  • A collective does not depend on sponsorship to continue existing. Sponsors may come and go, as with other sponsorship instances on Stack Overflow and Stack Exchange sites. Like those other scenarios, the health of the content and the engagement of the established community will determine the direction of the collective.

Why have a Collective at all if it's not sponsored? Who would use it? Who would engage with it, if there's no motivation to? My concern is mostly rooted out in low-traffic or niche interests, in which there could be enough engagement from the perspective of the project but not enough engagement from the perspective of this Collective service. At the end of the day, running this isn't free and it isn't like y'all just want to throw money at this indefinitely.

  • Sponsorship will always bring value to the community. As Teresa (our Chief Product and Community Officer) noted in the early days of Collectives, a diverse revenue model helps keep Stack Exchange stable and invest more in user functionality to bring value to the community. With all collectives, we are aiming to expand opportunities for learning and collaboration on Stack Overflow, and sponsorships support these efforts.

You have not stated what value you bring. I still find this highly insulting. You're saying that this is good for us but we're very much not enthralled about it tells me, in the kindest and most optimistic way possible, that your meaning of "value" is different from my meaning of "value".

Spell it out. Tell us what we're getting out of this, or we'll keep assuming we're not getting anything out of this. (And we'll keep telling ourselves the story that this is just typical Stack Overflow Inc. behavior, and that what we get is the privilege to whinge on their platform, or that the lights have to stay on somehow (and I think that's actually how I reached the original conclusion that this was meant to be the profit stream)).

There's a lot of these kinds of posts to peruse today-ish, so my responses will be highly disjointed.

While I'm quite glad that you're providing this information and making this commitment to the community, it comes well after this has been...for lack of a better expression...imposed on us regardless of if we agree with it or not. This imposition, at least from my perspective, has foregone any level of trust that you may presume or expect of us.

I'm a bit like a caged dog whose not been fed in a while, and I'm instantly wary of y'all trying to throw me a bone. So don't mind the growling too much when you throw the bone.

But, if you'll receive this feedback then I'll provide it...

  • Collective sponsors pay for visibility but not control. The collective’s impact on knowledge content — articles and recommendation of answers — will be in the hands of the community members who have demonstrated their knowledge and impact in the collective's area of focus.

Community members can't moderate Collectives. There is a palatable sense of apprehension in moderating Collectives, since that's someone else's dime and we're just a group of jerks who like closing and downvoting things humble site curators. In this commitment I don't see anything that speaks to attempting to close that gap. Can you make it clear?

  • A collective does not depend on sponsorship to continue existing. Sponsors may come and go, as with other sponsorship instances on Stack Overflow and Stack Exchange sites. Like those other scenarios, the health of the content and the engagement of the established community will determine the direction of the collective.

Why have a Collective at all if it's not sponsored? Who would use it? Who would engage with it, if there's no motivation to? My concern is mostly rooted out in low-traffic or niche interests, in which there could be enough engagement from the perspective of the project but not enough engagement from the perspective of this Collective service. At the end of the day, running this isn't free and it isn't like y'all just want to throw money at this indefinitely.

  • Sponsorship will always bring value to the community. As Teresa (our Chief Product and Community Officer) noted in the early days of Collectives, a diverse revenue model helps keep Stack Exchange stable and invest more in user functionality to bring value to the community. With all collectives, we are aiming to expand opportunities for learning and collaboration on Stack Overflow, and sponsorships support these efforts.

You have not stated what value you bring. I still find this highly insulting. You're saying that this is good for us but we're very much not enthralled about it tells me, in the kindest and most optimistic way possible, that your meaning of "value" is different from my meaning of "value".

Spell it out. Tell us what we're getting out of this, or we'll keep assuming we're not getting anything out of this. (And we'll keep telling ourselves the story that this is just typical Stack Overflow Inc. behavior, and that what we get is the privilege to whinge on their platform, or that the lights have to stay on somehow (and I think that's actually how I reached the original conclusion that this was meant to be the profit stream)).

There's a lot of these kinds of posts to peruse today-ish, so my responses will be highly disjointed.

While I'm quite glad that you're providing this information and making this commitment to the community, it comes well after this has been...for lack of a better expression...imposed on us regardless of if we agree with it or not. This imposition, at least from my perspective, has foregone any level of trust that you may presume or expect of us.

I'm a bit like a caged dog who's not been fed in a while, and I'm instantly wary of y'all trying to throw me a bone. So don't mind the growling too much when you throw the bone.

But, if you'll receive this feedback then I'll provide it...

  • Collective sponsors pay for visibility but not control. The collective’s impact on knowledge content — articles and recommendation of answers — will be in the hands of the community members who have demonstrated their knowledge and impact in the collective's area of focus.

Community members can't moderate Collectives. There is a palatable sense of apprehension in moderating Collectives, since that's someone else's dime and we're just a group of jerks who like closing and downvoting things humble site curators. In this commitment I don't see anything that speaks to attempting to close that gap. Can you make it clear?

  • A collective does not depend on sponsorship to continue existing. Sponsors may come and go, as with other sponsorship instances on Stack Overflow and Stack Exchange sites. Like those other scenarios, the health of the content and the engagement of the established community will determine the direction of the collective.

Why have a Collective at all if it's not sponsored? Who would use it? Who would engage with it, if there's no motivation to? My concern is mostly rooted out in low-traffic or niche interests, in which there could be enough engagement from the perspective of the project but not enough engagement from the perspective of this Collective service. At the end of the day, running this isn't free and it isn't like y'all just want to throw money at this indefinitely.

  • Sponsorship will always bring value to the community. As Teresa (our Chief Product and Community Officer) noted in the early days of Collectives, a diverse revenue model helps keep Stack Exchange stable and invest more in user functionality to bring value to the community. With all collectives, we are aiming to expand opportunities for learning and collaboration on Stack Overflow, and sponsorships support these efforts.

You have not stated what value you bring. I still find this highly insulting. You're saying that this is good for us but we're very much not enthralled about it tells me, in the kindest and most optimistic way possible, that your meaning of "value" is different from my meaning of "value".

Spell it out. Tell us what we're getting out of this, or we'll keep assuming we're not getting anything out of this. (And we'll keep telling ourselves the story that this is just typical Stack Overflow Inc. behavior, and that what we get is the privilege to whinge on their platform, or that the lights have to stay on somehow (and I think that's actually how I reached the original conclusion that this was meant to be the profit stream)).

Source Link
Makoto
  • 106.2k
  • 120
  • 864
  • 1.3k

There's a lot of these kinds of posts to peruse today-ish, so my responses will be highly disjointed.

While I'm quite glad that you're providing this information and making this commitment to the community, it comes well after this has been...for lack of a better expression...imposed on us regardless of if we agree with it or not. This imposition, at least from my perspective, has foregone any level of trust that you may presume or expect of us.

I'm a bit like a caged dog whose not been fed in a while, and I'm instantly wary of y'all trying to throw me a bone. So don't mind the growling too much when you throw the bone.

But, if you'll receive this feedback then I'll provide it...

  • Collective sponsors pay for visibility but not control. The collective’s impact on knowledge content — articles and recommendation of answers — will be in the hands of the community members who have demonstrated their knowledge and impact in the collective's area of focus.

Community members can't moderate Collectives. There is a palatable sense of apprehension in moderating Collectives, since that's someone else's dime and we're just a group of jerks who like closing and downvoting things humble site curators. In this commitment I don't see anything that speaks to attempting to close that gap. Can you make it clear?

  • A collective does not depend on sponsorship to continue existing. Sponsors may come and go, as with other sponsorship instances on Stack Overflow and Stack Exchange sites. Like those other scenarios, the health of the content and the engagement of the established community will determine the direction of the collective.

Why have a Collective at all if it's not sponsored? Who would use it? Who would engage with it, if there's no motivation to? My concern is mostly rooted out in low-traffic or niche interests, in which there could be enough engagement from the perspective of the project but not enough engagement from the perspective of this Collective service. At the end of the day, running this isn't free and it isn't like y'all just want to throw money at this indefinitely.

  • Sponsorship will always bring value to the community. As Teresa (our Chief Product and Community Officer) noted in the early days of Collectives, a diverse revenue model helps keep Stack Exchange stable and invest more in user functionality to bring value to the community. With all collectives, we are aiming to expand opportunities for learning and collaboration on Stack Overflow, and sponsorships support these efforts.

You have not stated what value you bring. I still find this highly insulting. You're saying that this is good for us but we're very much not enthralled about it tells me, in the kindest and most optimistic way possible, that your meaning of "value" is different from my meaning of "value".

Spell it out. Tell us what we're getting out of this, or we'll keep assuming we're not getting anything out of this. (And we'll keep telling ourselves the story that this is just typical Stack Overflow Inc. behavior, and that what we get is the privilege to whinge on their platform, or that the lights have to stay on somehow (and I think that's actually how I reached the original conclusion that this was meant to be the profit stream)).