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Today I noticed the following:

This SO question translated to the RuSO

This SO question translated to the RuSO

This SO question translated to the RuSO (More answers were added but all of them are variant of my answer there too)

Well, I will not list all the questions/answers but I found a lot of my answers translated there. I stopped counting because I also found very old ones too (this one from here). Some of them are also getting more upvotes than my original answers (this one from here)


I was very surprised to find such cloning into the RuSO and it's being done since too long. Is this a common practise to repeat Q/A in other languages? What is the limitation of doing such thing? Are we allowed to do it?

It seems to me like a translation job to make some SO questions available in other languages to help users that don't understand English.

Another User also told me he will be doing the same on EsSO


UPDATE

A meta question related to this one was created in RuSO: https://ru.meta.stackoverflow.com/q/10211

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  • 5
    Not just a user. A diamond mod :p. Seems significant
    – Patrice
    Commented Mar 4, 2020 at 19:56
  • 21
    The Stack Overflow en español content at least has attribution in place and is using community wiki. The Stack Overflow на русском content is using neither. I call fowl play. Commented Mar 4, 2020 at 20:09
  • 1
    There is no attribution in Russian version of posts. Commented Mar 4, 2020 at 20:17
  • 3
    There's a post on MSE which says this is fine ... I'm on bed and about to sleep, will find it tomo if no one else does it.
    – Bhargav Rao Mod
    Commented Mar 4, 2020 at 20:18
  • 1
    Not a Russian speaker but from what I can understand, it seems like a straight translation of the posts into Russian, no attribution or mostly anything changed. However, the second and third question do have a comment linking to the original.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Mar 4, 2020 at 20:36
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    Surely that MSE post says attribution is still required, @Bhargav. If not, please find it so it can be edited...
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Mar 4, 2020 at 20:46
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    Those posts should be with attribution explicitly showing where they came from and absolutely must be community wiki'd to prevent abuse. At present, it looks like plagiarism... because it is. In all honesty, just because they bend the rules to make it technically passable, it is still morally wrong and a violation of the Code of Conduct.
    – Travis J
    Commented Mar 4, 2020 at 21:07
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    Maybe the pitchforks are premature. Translating a Q+A into somebody's native language is quite compatible with the notion of a creative commons. Somebody deserves credit for getting the job done. The attribution is too feeble, a comment doesn't cut it, very easy to fix. I suspect a ru.se mod ought to get involved to clarify the policy, give it 24 hours for people to be awake at the right time. Commented Mar 4, 2020 at 22:56
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    @HansPassant - They deserve credit for translating the content, not for authoring it. Especially not for authoring the code itself.
    – Travis J
    Commented Mar 4, 2020 at 23:16
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    @gnat, I was initially thinking of this, but that seems good too.
    – Bhargav Rao Mod
    Commented Mar 5, 2020 at 3:28
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    @BhargavRao thanks - forgot about that post actually. I did fix the "provide attribution" phrase to make sure it was clear that attribution was a requirement not optional Commented Mar 5, 2020 at 12:57
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    @BhargavRao - To note, you are wrong. There is no MSE post which states it is fine to copy other people's posts to different exchanges without attribution. Moreover, the implication from MSE is to move your own work over with translation, and to only post questions as you encounter them. Nowhere on MSE does it support such an absurd notion that plagiarism is okay.
    – Travis J
    Commented Mar 5, 2020 at 22:17
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    I read the title of the question and I commented @TravisJ, no where in my comment do I ever claim that plagiarism is OK.
    – Bhargav Rao Mod
    Commented Mar 5, 2020 at 22:42
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    I've created the question about this issues on our Meta. Probably, the best solution is to add link to the source messages in all those associations. Commented Mar 7, 2020 at 6:51
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    @BhargavRao - Going forward, perhaps it would be more prudent to actually read questions before actioning them. The timing of your comment, the reference of "this" to refer to the current plagiarism highlighted, and the indication from a Moderator that everything here is "okay" do strongly infer that plagiarism is OK. If you did not intend to send that message, consider deleting your comment.
    – Travis J
    Commented Mar 9, 2020 at 18:25

4 Answers 4

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Attribution

Content on Stack Overflow is licensed under CC-BY-SA, which encourages people to reuse, modify, and distribute information (including in different languages!) I think this is the main value of Stack Overflow: anyone can take any question or answer and use the information in it for free without asking. The lack of attribution of the posts that you have mentioned in the question is just an unfortunate misunderstanding. As I see it the authors of the posts thought that adding a comment with the link to the original post was enough. During the next update of question associations, I will go through the questions and check if there are translations without attribution. If so, I will contact the authors.

Translations: The more useful knowledge the better

Our common goal is to create a library of answers to all programming questions. International sites complement Stack Overflow in English: together we want to create a world in which for each query the search results contain a link to a detailed answer in our native language. Translations help us to get closer to this goal.

Translation is a hard creative work. From my own experience I can say that:

  • Sometimes translation is harder than writing your own answer or question and takes more time.
  • A good translation conveys the meaning of the source text taking into account the cultural aspects of the target language. At the end, original posts and the translated ones might not look similar.
  • Often a translation is based on several posts with information added by the translator.

Translation is an important contribution to international knowledge bases. And this contribution, as I think, has it’s authors who deserve at least reputation points for their work. More about translations on international sites

Question associations: Connecting Stack Overflows in different languages

The posts you linked to in the question were created as part of the question association initiative. The initiative has two main goals:

  1. Improve the structure of the Stack Overflow knowledge base, connecting Stack Overflow in different languages. If there are connections between similar questions in different languages we can show a user who speaks not only English all relevant content (please recall how Wikipedia links posts in different languages.)
  2. Help not native English speakers understand programming better. Not everyone speaks English fluently. Two seemingly identical texts, one in Russian and another in English, give a Russian-speaking user a different level of understanding of ideas in the text. We really want our colleagues not only to be able to copy–and–paste code from Stack Overflow, but also to understand the essence of their problems. Having content in the user’s first language reduces a huge barrier for understanding.

The initiative is still in a kinda draft stage: we have a 3rd party app for storing / syncing associations for international sites and a site setting on Stack Overflow in English where we store association pairs SOen: SOint. Currently two communities are working on creating associations: Stack Overflow in Russian and Stack Overflow in Spanish. We hope to have the initiative implemented in the site in foreseeable future (though there are no any agreed plans for the feature). As soon as we have it, we will be able to discuss the implementation (notifications, reputations, and etc.)

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  • You can probably make the question featured for 1 or 2 days? I guess it deserve bringing more attention to your answer and the general issue discussed here. Let's make sure everyone understand attribution and it's done correctly in the future Commented Mar 10, 2020 at 20:57
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    The lack of attribution was significant, but not the only concern. The association was implemented as a way to link an existing Q&A set from the English version to the Russian version. No where in the design does it indicate that popular English versions should be directly copied and translated into the Russian site. The outlook on all of the material is to only create posts as you encounter problems.
    – Travis J
    Commented Mar 10, 2020 at 21:36
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    In addition, "Translation is harder than writing your own answer or question and takes more time." is insulting. Sometimes tracking down issues can take days, weeks, or even months; especially if the issue revolves around third party systems. The time spent for these can be immense, and the time answerers spend to compose verified answers is also very significant. Trivializing that as simply just preparing text in need of translation is as tone deaf as it comes.
    – Travis J
    Commented Mar 10, 2020 at 21:39
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    @TravisJ Thanks! I agree that sometimes writing an answer or a question takes a lot of effort. I edited my answer.
    – Nicolas Chabanovsky StaffMod
    Commented Mar 11, 2020 at 5:32
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    @TemaniAfif Could you please tell me if you want to feature question here on MSOen or MSOru? I think featuring it on MSOru makes a lot of sense, especially if we can write an answer there. Plus we have a nice help center article about it: ru.stackoverflow.com/help/translate-from-english
    – Nicolas Chabanovsky StaffMod
    Commented Mar 11, 2020 at 5:34
  • It seems that the MSOru one is already featured. I was thinking to feature this one since ENSo is more popuplar and there is propably more users doing such thing or plan to do such thing (not only on Ru, probably on other languages too). Commented Mar 11, 2020 at 9:09
  • @TemaniAfif Thanks! What do you think if we ask SOen moderators if they think it is important enough for featuring on the English speaking site?
    – Nicolas Chabanovsky StaffMod
    Commented Mar 11, 2020 at 12:20
  • Yes sure. I made a simple suggestion but you and the other moderators are more qualified to take the final decision ;) Commented Mar 11, 2020 at 12:25
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Plain and clear, this is a violation of the license that your content is under: they must provide attribution even if the content has been “remixed” (by translating it):

You must give appropriate credit, provide a link to the license, and indicate if changes were made.

You don’t need to know Russian to see the lack of appropriate attribution, which would include your name, a link to you, and a link to your post.

I’m not sure the best way to bring this to the attention of the users on the Russian site. Posts on their meta are in Russian and I’m not sure if they allow any exceptions.

Scope-wise, based on looking at some auto translated RuSO meta posts (such as this one), I believe that translated posts are on-topic and are being actively encouraged. (Which makes it even more important that attribution be addressed.)

By the way, the comment “ассоциация: (link)” indicates that the Russian question is (or will be) linked from its English counterpart using a special banner, visible only for Russian speakers:

For more information on this feature see this Russian post.

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    I think their meta should allow posting in English under such circumstances (they could translate it into Russian with an edit). After all it's meta. Otherwise there is MSE, which is even more meta. Commented Mar 5, 2020 at 10:25
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    @Trilarion I agree and I’ve seen this happen for staff posts. The safest and most effective option though would probably be to post something in English alongside its machine translation into Russian.
    – Laurel
    Commented Mar 5, 2020 at 17:38
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    You can post your thoughts on our Meta. We will translate it, don't worry ^_^ Commented Mar 6, 2020 at 7:31
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    @Trilarion how you will understand answers?
    – talex
    Commented Mar 6, 2020 at 7:43
  • @talex Some way, translate them back. Basically a Q&A that is bilingual to ensure everyone understands it. Commented Mar 6, 2020 at 8:32
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    @Trilarion Doesn't sound like good idea. It is probably better to invite them here for discussion. Non russian language content is prohibited there, so you have to change rules first, before you do it.
    – talex
    Commented Mar 6, 2020 at 9:34
  • @talex Wherever it will take place, it will be bilingual in some sort. Commented Mar 6, 2020 at 9:48
  • @Trilarion yes. My point was that meta of RUSO isn't good place of such conversation.
    – talex
    Commented Mar 6, 2020 at 10:34
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    Well, the most active user on Meta.RUSO (and is a moderator there) just said here 7 hours ago that they would translate this concern into Russian if it were posted in English there... so it's probably not that big an issue for a one-time alert that they're violating the law.
    – TylerH
    Commented Mar 6, 2020 at 14:47
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Translating content from EN SO is explicitly encouraged in RU SO. We have help center article that discusses this, and it does warn about the need of attribution. There's nothing surprising in this IMO, because EN SO is such a large knowledge base, it is logical to reuse it rather than writing things from scratch. Of course, some people might get attribution wrong, but I hope there's no intentional plagiarism, they just didn't pay attention to the license terms and thought that the comment link alone is OK. If you really want these issues addressed, you can try using "Contact Us" or chat to ask our mods to tell these users they should correct attribution. Our mods should be able to understand English.

As for whether the translations should be marked as community wiki, I think "it depends". If it's just a code with trivial text content, like "Try this, hope this helps", it makes sense to require marking as community wiki, because the translation work is not creative enough. If there's a non-trivial text, I think it should not be marked as community wiki.

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    (1) we should at least notify/warn the original author (2) what if the original author speak Russian and can do it himself? (3) a Russian link giving attribution is useless because a non-russian speaker will not understand it so the attribution is very very poor. what was done here: es.stackoverflow.com/a/182980 is a good attribution (and I was notified: stackoverflow.com/questions/51449737/…) Commented Mar 6, 2020 at 10:19
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    I guess the problem is that in the tldr is literally saying that providing link to the original q&a is enough (Не забывайте отблагодарить авторов вопроса и ответов обратной ссылкой на сообщение-источник на английском языке), unless you follow the link (Соблюдайте лицензию) - you wouldn't notice that you need to provide more info.
    – Dmitrii Z.
    Commented Mar 6, 2020 at 10:21
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    The encouragement was to highlight an existing post on RU not to transcribe the current post. It seems that the availability of transcribing is being used as a guise for plagiarism. The reason there was no existing structure directly implemented for plagiarism is because the intent was never to simply copy and transcribe, but to point to an existing Q&A in Russian that was associated with the SO Q&A.
    – Travis J
    Commented Mar 9, 2020 at 18:38
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Interesting. Actually this initiative was started by a community manager Nicolas Chabanovsky♦. And it seems that the company doesn't see any problems with that.

Also, there is a list (and script to find them) of those questions.

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    Good to know. What about the attribution? I'm afraid I don't speak Russian so I can't read the linked posts nor the translated answers, but that issue was raised a few times in this Q&A. Maybe you could comment on that as well?
    – yivi
    Commented Mar 6, 2020 at 7:35
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    @yivi as far as I know, those associated questions should have special banner, as Laurel mentioned in the answer. But I don't see such banners on associated questions. I'm going to ask Nicolas to clarify this. Commented Mar 6, 2020 at 7:38
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    Maybe something was lost in the recent post-notice redesign. But without that special banner, the attribution would be missing.
    – yivi
    Commented Mar 6, 2020 at 7:39
  • It would also be good to notify the original author about this. I stop couting after finding more than 20 of my answers there (there is probably more). At least I know about such thing and maybe I can bring some edit or feedback. I probably speak and understand Russian, who knows? I could have been able to do this translation on my own. Commented Mar 6, 2020 at 9:37
  • also take a note about this question for example: stackoverflow.com/q/59922092/8620333 ... the OP want a speciel effect to be included in the App they developped and included the link of that App in the question. The Russian version is saying the same ru.stackoverflow.com/q/1081751 and this doesn't make sense. It's not his App so he cannot say the same in RuSo. The question should at least be more generic removing the reference to the App Commented Mar 6, 2020 at 9:40
  • @TemaniAfif If content of Q&A is translated - it is more fair to do a 'prompt' translation without any modifications in order to keep all original author's intentions. And that being said - I as russian speaker who never participated in ru.stackoverflow can clearly see from the comment "Ассоциация: ссылка" that this is translated (not original) content.
    – Dmitrii Z.
    Commented Mar 6, 2020 at 10:15
  • @DmitriiZ. So you can easily copy/past the content into google translator, get 90% of the translation done and rectify trivial words then post the content ... Also the comment is clear to you but not too me (non-russian speaker) Commented Mar 6, 2020 at 10:23
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    @TemaniAfif by saying prompt I mean "translation without adaptations", e.g. if original question was asking about some issue while developing app - translated version should also keep that part so that no content or intention is removed "by accident" because translator didn't understand context correctly. Also FYI translation quality of q&a you linked looks very good to me.
    – Dmitrii Z.
    Commented Mar 6, 2020 at 10:29
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    The banner (as it was when it was working) is not enough for attribution because it’s not even on the same page as the copied content, it’s invisible to most users, and it doesn’t contain the necessary information (who originally posted what). Remember, it’s possible that people could be adding original answers to the Russian question or people on the English side delete things (and you wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between those circumstances.)
    – Laurel
    Commented Mar 6, 2020 at 11:48
  • "The task is to show the user the content that is most needed for him: we assume that if a Russian-speaking developer reads an English-language question that received a good answer in Russian, then, with a high probability, he will be interested in the Russian-language question that we need to show to the user" is the guidance for association. This indicates that there should be an existing associated post on RuSO, not that someone should create a direct copy of the SO content. Association is not meant as a mechanism for plagiarism.
    – Travis J
    Commented Mar 9, 2020 at 18:40

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