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This week started the Stackoverflow in Spanish. I went there hoping to start participating and I found a really interesting question. I was about to sit down to start figuring out an answer when I had this feeling that I had already seen this before somewhere else and then I Googled it and found the exact same question in Stackoverflow in English. Minutes later the same person asking the question, wrote the translation of the accepted answer from the English site and answered his own question in the Spanish site.

(As a matter of fact, this has been happening for a while, now that the site just opened, which in my personal opinion brings its category down. But that's not the subject here.)

The original English question and the corresponding answer are pretty popular on the English site.

Evidently the question has not been genuinely posted by a user in Spanish SO, but from a user either heroically doing the effort of translating the good stuff from the English site, or looking to make a few easy points by reproducing a very popular question in the Spanish site.

In either case, I wanted to suggest a couple of things here:

  • First, it would be awesome if there was a way to award or recognize translation efforts in a different way such that it would not be as if the translator would get all the credit and reputation for translating somebody else's work.
  • Second, it would be great if the original answer being translated here, could get some of the points it is getting in the translated site. After all, the translated version is still a copy of the effort and originality of the initial poster.

I would simply like to see that translators are appropriately recognized for their hard labor without awarding them the merit of the originality of the question or the answer from the other site. And at the same time that the users behind the original questions and answers get awarded for their effort irrespective of the site where the question was posted.

I just have this feeling that a person's reputation in Stackoverflow means more than just positively contributing to the site. It also says something about their abilities. Otherwise it would not be used in the Careers site to look for potential hires or associated with very reputable and knowledgable persons in the industry. Perhaps I'm wrong in this interpretation, or the creators stick to a false reality (a truth is a truth even if nobody believes it...)

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    I answered a related question over on MSE here
    – rene
    Commented Dec 1, 2015 at 22:16
  • @rene It seems related, still I would like to see Stack Exchange embracing a set of features that recognize that in sites in other languages there are other types of users: the translators and that original posters should still be awarded points, instead of relying on the good will of the users of the translated site to follow a link to the original question, which could be in a language they cannot even read. Probably can't even award points in that site due to lack of reputation. Commented Dec 1, 2015 at 22:19
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    I think it depends on how you look at reputation. For me it should only mean: contributed positively on this site. The only difference maybe for verbatim translation of posts the community should agree on linking back to the original for attribution purposes but that is about it. But I'm not a multi-language site user (Dutch-SO is not going to make it) so I can't really judge or experience first hand how this will/can work.
    – rene
    Commented Dec 1, 2015 at 22:30
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    @rene I don't think most people believe SO points just means you positively contributed to the site. The gamification aspect of points awarded to you is clearly build on the idea of "reputation". In the Careers site is used to look for the best hires, and it is typically associated with knowledgable people that contribute in the site. I would not mind a person translating their own answers and getting the reputation for it. But translating other peoples answers and building a reputation that will be misinterpreted by most users does not sound right to me. Commented Dec 1, 2015 at 23:12
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    @EdwinDalorzo: Reputation is used as a measure of a users contribution to a site, and therefore suitability for moderating it. There's just one thing moving re cross-site, migration of questions, all other FRs involving that are promptly declined. And sometimes that exception seems too big already... Commented Dec 1, 2015 at 23:21
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    Related meta.es.stackoverflow.com/q/46/152
    – Braiam
    Commented Dec 2, 2015 at 1:00
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    This is precisely why having multiple sites was a bad idea.
    – JonH
    Commented Dec 3, 2015 at 20:36

4 Answers 4

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I support official, first-class backlinks to sources of translations. I'd like to know when my content is translated (because knowing someone cares enough to translate it is pretty cool). The translator might also want to know when my post is edited. Multilingual users might want to read the original text if they can read both languages. Attribution is already required by the user content license terms; making it a first-class citizen makes it both more likely to be given and more useful.

Reputation, despite its name, is not really a measure of technical knowledge. I can understand why some think otherwise, but it's a poor decision on their part to interpret it that way. (Basic knowledge gets voted on a lot; true expertise only gets voted on by those few experts who see it and understand it.) I wouldn't want a new user on SO earning privileges because someone translated their answer; they need to spend more time in this community first.

I think whether to award reputation for the translations on the destination site (where the translation is posted) is a question for that site to decide, as that's where the rep grants privileges. My personal feeling is that preemptive translation of very-highly-voted/viewed questions is probably worth rewarding, but that most questions should only be translated in response to an organic question. (But any automated enforcement will just lead to sockpuppets being created -- not sure how to solve that, hence why any policy needs local community support.)

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    Backlinks would be rad, and also afford forward links on the original question: "English not your best language? Read this in Spanish, Russian, Lojban, ..." There's also an interesting opportunity for flags to add a banner to the new question: "This is a duplicate of a question in another language. [Translate it] if you can."
    – Kristján
    Commented Dec 3, 2015 at 15:11
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We're still finding our way to some extent when it comes to this. Disclaimer: I run the international effort.

There are some canonical questions that are desirable to have on any site, mostly because so much work has gone into the English version. Why can't I connect to a MySQL database using PHP? for instance.

For pretty much everything else, we strongly encourage the international communities to follow the same guidelines that made the English site such an amazing success:

Ask questions about real-world problems that you currently face

But it's not all black and white. While I'm very excited to see Documentation becoming feature complete and close to the point that we might be able to have it enabled on international sites as well, developers that don't communicate very well using English still face documentation that is primarily in English every day. I can see some merit to 'grabbing' stuff from the English site in an effort to solve problems folks are currently having.

I don't quite know where the happy 'middle ground' is going to land, but we're working on it. Documentation and examples are prime candidates for direct transliteration - get that information out and help as many developers as you can with it. Could we automatically provide attribution in the system by allowing someone from Spanish to 'fork' documentation from English? Possibly.

Right now, until all of this awesome stuff is built and finalized, try not to worry too much about it. It is something we have to work on, but it's not an immediately urgent problem provided that attribution requirements are met. Q&A is what we've currently got working, and what we give everyone to work with - so allow some leeway for folks to try and make these tools work for them.

I do not want to enforce community wiki for this, because translation does take time and work, and honest effort with good intentions should have some reward to it (though, they would get badges eventually, probably).

The international CMs are going to be stressing that the content of each site should be almost entirely of its own creation, while we do allow strategic 'picks' if there's merit to having them, as long as attribution is provided.

Let's try not to short-circuit the international folks trying to do what we set out to do, which is make much better information accessible to them. What we're worrying about is still a very theoretical problem that we're already aware that we'll need to address (and working on it). We'll keep an eye on it, but also give them some room to operate.

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    It might be beneficial to apply some aspects of community wiki, such as the first translator not receiving an "authorship" level of control over the post. And a badge might be a better way to recognize exceptional translation effort than reputation, especially in-tag rep.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Dec 3, 2015 at 15:17
  • @BenVoigt My current thinking is, see how much of this can be served with documentation, and build in automatic attribution / routes back to the parent docs. If that doesn't quite cut it, we might be able to have the system be the custodian of translations of other posts too - it's a little too early for me to actionably speculate though. Aspects of community wiki kinda work, but I'd rather study it a little longer, and come up with something a little more polished. Having the system do it while making sure links get established, crediting the translator, and crediting the original - better.
    – user50049
    Commented Dec 3, 2015 at 15:29
  • How dealt with this older lang.SO communities? pt.SO seems to have most of its content created in-the-house (Q's and A's alike) and I wouldn't try my luck on jp.SO, since I don't understand a iota of it.
    – Braiam
    Commented Dec 3, 2015 at 16:21
  • content created on es, pt or jp, is ported/translated to the main site? (if it isn't duplicated), as a dev I could be missing some helpful answers if the content is in one of those sites only (unless I somehow translate my search to those langs) Commented Dec 3, 2015 at 20:20
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    @BenVoigt: I don't know where you're getting the idea that CW takes away "authorship level of control", but it doesn't. It really doesn't. Commented Dec 4, 2015 at 1:01
  • I think the linking is important. So in case you have a spanish question and maybe you would actually still see the english equivalent. Make a flagging where you can nominate one question in the english stackoverflow as canonical sister question maybe, then link to that on the english site so people can get the question (or a very similar one) also in their question. Allowing to keep the subject but switch the language - that is the key idea here, not so much about authorship. Commented Dec 4, 2015 at 21:36
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Is translated plagiarism still plagiarism?

While I can agree there is some effort involved in translating a post like that, it is still a literal copy of the original question / answer.
A single Q/A combo like that can result in a significant amount of rep, assuming the question will get similar attention in it's translated form.

Rep like that could be gained from a subject the OP literally knows nothing about, just by translating a post. In extreme cases, a high rep user might not even know the language he earned the rep in.

Solution?

Make it a community wiki.

The information would still be available in the other language, while rep-farming like this gets eliminated.

Otherwise, some user can just grab the top-20 questions on here, spend a couple of hours translating them, and rake in the rep.

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    I don't consider an attributed translation to be plagiarism. The requirement for attribution is orthogonal to whether to award rep (rep or not, attribution is required). Commented Dec 2, 2015 at 7:33
  • Fair enough. What do you think of my "Community Wiki" suggestion? The rep earned doesn't really reflect technical know-how. It's really only a reward for writing a decent / good translation.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Dec 2, 2015 at 7:34
  • You were fine until you hit "Solution?". The real solution is "create the content yourself". It makes you gain reputation from something you know of and have the plus that your community grows organically.
    – Braiam
    Commented Dec 3, 2015 at 2:48
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    Of course the solution is original content, but that doesn't solve cases like this. In this case, making the post a community wiki seems like a good alternative to me.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Dec 3, 2015 at 6:14
  • I clearly agree with Cerbrus on the topic. Community wiki should be a good answer for rep farmers. Translation of content is a good thing if the content is good. However, translation on a wrong / deprecated answer is not a good thing, and there is a lot of content deprecated on SO, that actually work on specific cases, but is not anymore the best practice. The real question is more how to detect such thing properly and sort the good from the bad ? I believe we should avoid as much as possible rep farmers that just translate without thinking one sec if the answer is still relevant.
    – Erowlin
    Commented Dec 3, 2015 at 15:16
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    I don't see what's wrong with "rep farming". We are awarding people for their effort to improve the site, after all. We don't want to stop anyone from improving the site, do we? Translations are valuable and should bring reputation - how many and in what ways, that is yet to be determined, depending on how valuable we consider it. In any case, I don't want to see people translating content without proper attribution only because they get more rep for that.
    – Bergi
    Commented Dec 3, 2015 at 22:13
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  1. Legal stuff

The content of the Stackexchanges is licensed under the creative commons license CC-BY-SA.

This means:

  • any derivative work like translation must also be under CC-BY-SA (this would be the case at another Stackexchange site)
  • you must give appropriate credit, typically by at least mentioning the name

The second part, the attribution, is a must, not a nice to have. If the name of the original author was not mentioned this is a breach of the CC-BY-SA license. As simple as that.

  1. How to distribute the reputation?

Dividing it somehow could become very difficult? I'm not completely convinced, but for 1:1 translations I guess that converting the question/answer to community wiki would be the appropriate thing.

If however someone has a genuine problem which has not yet been solved in language XX and the question is only loosely based on a famous English Stackoverflow question, then I would leave the whole credit with the guy because:

After all the policy is not that non-English Stackoverflows cannot have questions similar (even duplicates) to questions of the English Stackoverflow. But if they can, the rep must also be given.

  1. Potential benefits

Linkings between equal (or very, very similar) questions across languages can help visitors from search engines finding questions in their appropriate language.

  1. My two cents/Summary

English is not my mother language, still I think it is rather a waste of time to talk about programming in any other language. It's more efficient just to learn English. Translating the millions of questions on the English Stackoverflow to 10 different languages will be a lot of effort with only small benefit. So if people want to do it, they should do it - but they must give credit because of the CC-BY-SA license and the reputation is debatable but community wiki might be a good compromise.

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