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I was looking at this answer that seemed excellent, however by following the reference link for more information on the topic, it turns out it's (almost) a copy/paste of part of the MDN article.

I had a quick look at the history of both the answer and the article, and it seems like answer was initially a copy/paste but the first line was

From Javascript | MDN)

[sic]

followed by the quote from the article.

Which makes it a lot more clear that the content is taken from elsewhere. Subsequent (mostly) formatting edits from different people re-worked the answer over time and improved its presentation. However, now at least to me, now wasn't clear that it's a quote and not original work. Not when looking at the answer alone, at least.

Looking at the help page on referencing I'm not really sure, so, I ask for clarification: is the answer as-is correct in terms of attribution, or does it need to be corrected?

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    I don't see a problem, the link itself already identifies where the content came from.
    – Gimby
    Commented Oct 17, 2019 at 11:49
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    @Gimby I disagree there. See the MDN article, they wrote that information in their own words and provided a reference to their source. This answer on the other hand is a verbatim copy without any marking as being a direct quote, so the link is not just a "reference".
    – Tom
    Commented Oct 17, 2019 at 12:07
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    The way I read the help page, it seems like the answer should say something like "To quote MDN" or "Referencing MDN" or otherwise make it clear from the beginning that the text comes from elsewhere (similar to the first version), then place the entire contents in a quote, since (almost) no part of that is original. Perhaps the initial attribution can be swapped with a reference at the end and still keep everything in a quote. However, I'm not sure if my reading is correct, hence the question.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Oct 17, 2019 at 12:14

1 Answer 1

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No, it's not okay. Quoted content should be unambiguously marked as a quote.

The Help Center is unfortunately slightly overzealous in its referencing requirements. (It contains a requirement that we name the authors of content we quote, which is frequently violated. Indeed, to truly obey the rules in the Help Center you would theoretically need to dive into the MDN page's revision history and find out which individual human beings are responsible for that paragraph, then list their names in the answer... but nobody on Stack Overflow really does that.) But the bit in there about it being mandatory to mark quotes as quotes is something most of us, me included, take seriously and follow essentially without exception. It's often useful to the reader to know what's direct quotation and what's the poster's interpretation, and failure to mark content as a quote often unfairly results in poster's getting credit they don't deserve for writing it.

In this case, though, the revision history reveals that the answerer initially did explicitly state that they were quoting from MDN, but garbled the formatting a bit. Later a well-meaning editor reformatted, tweaked, and rearranged the answer in a way that both made it a slightly less faithful quotation (but without substantively changing the content) and removed the clear statement that it was a quote that was present in the original. Updates to the text on MDN have also resulted in further divergence between the answer and the MDN page (though the tweaks are minor, and the two are still clearly recognisable as being basically the same text).

There's absolutely no bad faith or wilful rule violations here, so no need for any scoldings or mod involvement. However, the end result is messy and misleading and not consistent with our referencing rules as written or as usually practiced. I think the right solution is to simply update the answer with a fresh copy and paste of the section being quoted from MDN, in a blockquote, and prefix it with something like "According to MDN" and a link. I'm going to do that now.

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  • Thanks. That was my suspicion. Also, I didn't mean to accuse anybody of bad faith - just like you say, it seemed to me that few edits compounded a bit like broken telephone to lead to the current post that is not very clear in attribution. Also, I started editing the answer but you finished faster :P But thanks for your edit, anyway.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Oct 17, 2019 at 12:38
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    @VLAZ Oh, absolutely - I didn't mean to accuse you of accusing anyone of bad faith either. ;) But since plagiarism is often cause for disciplinary action here, I thought it was worth emphasising for the record that this answer ended up being unclear about whether it was a quote by accident, through the minor bumbling of well-intentioned parties. (That's an unusual case, rather than the norm.)
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Oct 17, 2019 at 12:41
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    Note that MDN has its own attribution requirements: developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/MDN/… Commented Oct 17, 2019 at 12:55
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    @HereticMonkey Pretty sure I've never seen a single post here follow those rules either. I suspect that nobody behind MDN really wants us to do so anyway, and that at least as a matter of law the kind of quotes that get used on Stack Overflow are fine in the US under Fair Use even if they don't follow the license conditions. (Not our job to enforce, in any case, even if I'm wrong on both points.)
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Oct 17, 2019 at 13:45
  • @MarkAmery Fair enough. I just thought I'd point out that they do say all you have to do is say "Mozilla Contributors" and a link to the article's history page at the time it was quoted, rather than digging through their edit history to parse the names. I think they'd be happy to have a link. Commented Oct 17, 2019 at 13:52
  • @HereticMonkey Aye, they say that, but that has no bearing on our referencing policy, strictly interpreted. Ours doesn't say "Provide the name of the original author, or alternatively cite your source in a way consistent with their own referencing policy, if they have one". It simply says "Provide the name of the original author". Compliance with MDN's policy is orthogonal to compliance with ours.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Oct 17, 2019 at 14:05
  • @HereticMonkey I hadn't actually seen those attribution rules but...ummm "Your reuse is published under the same license as the original content — CC-BY-SA v2.5 or any later version." how does that play with the CC-BY-SE 4 that SE uses?
    – VLAZ
    Commented Oct 17, 2019 at 16:01
  • @VLAZ it would appear to be covered by "any later version", but IANAL Not sure if Mozilla got permission from all their authors, but that's their problem ;-). Commented Oct 17, 2019 at 16:44

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