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After reading through a meta question on splitting the site and my experience with a question where the user clearly put in effort and even posted a smallish example that exhibited the problem, but also clearly had significant misunderstandings about language fundamentals, I'm wondering again how to reconcile the two missions of SO.

SO is a help site. SO is an archive. It is both things. And in order to be either, it must be both. In order to be an archive, people have to be able to ask for help so there's something to archive. In order to be a help site, people can't be afraid to come here and ask questions.

I propose that a tag be created that requires a fairly high rep to apply. This tag would remove a question from search results and otherwise flag the question so as to avoid cluttering up the archive with questions that add no value, but wouldn't outright delete the question.

It might also be reasonable to allow you to search through all the questions, regardless of the tag. And perhaps people might also earn reduced reputation for answering such questions.

It just pains me to see people come with honest questions who are in bad courses with terrible instructors be basically shut out of the site by having their questions closed. We have the opportunity to be more welcoming, and help out the world in general by being a place where anybody can come with their question if they've put in the effort to meet the site guidelines.

There is some precedent here (pun intended). The appellate courts may be viewed as a forum for legal questions. For almost all legal questions of even marginal quality, the appellate courts give an answer. But they only publish the answers to interesting questions.

I think that allowing a wider range of questions will ultimately result in SO becoming a better archive as well.

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    I don't think it's so much, "shutting people out of the site", so much as it is, "maintaining quality standards". Asking questions is a skill like any other; it has to be learned, and, most importantly, has to be willingly learned.
    – fbueckert
    Commented Aug 22, 2019 at 21:20
  • That's the reason for rules like "Must show effort." and "Minimum complete example." and such. In the question I reference, the person went to the effort to print out pointer values to figure out what was wrong. They were just clearly baffled about some language fundamentals. I don't know how they could've asked their question better. By the time they figured that out, they wouldn't have had to ask it anymore. And I've seen questions that clearly indicate that the person isn't in an environment where anybody has the right answer. In fact, their instructors are actively giving them bad answers. Commented Aug 22, 2019 at 21:24
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    That's the thing, @Omni; at some point, we need to figure out what it is we're trying to do here. Askers have to have at least a base level of skill in programming; is it unreasonable to expect that? I don't think so. At the end of the day, maintaining quality standards will feel unfriendly, to some degree or another, but will, in the long run, benefit far more people.
    – fbueckert
    Commented Aug 22, 2019 at 21:26
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    @fbueckert - How are people going to learn if nobody can answer their question? Commented Aug 22, 2019 at 21:30
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    The general idea of a two-in-one site is not without merit. There were a few interesting discussions around it in the Big HMP Room a few weeks ago, such as this and this.
    – duplode
    Commented Aug 22, 2019 at 21:39
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    "How are people going to learn if nobody can answer their question?" ... there are more places than just Stackoverflow. If their question doesn't match the restrictions on this site, then they are free to ask somewhere else.
    – Tom
    Commented Aug 22, 2019 at 22:04
  • @Tom - Name one where people will actually get a decent answer to their question. Seriously. I have a friend, who is a very competent programmer, who stays away from here because of how people here treat questions. He's been struggling to find a forum to have professional conversations that aren't full of complete idiots who think they know way more than they do. Commented Aug 22, 2019 at 22:06
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    Since I never tested any of these site I can't recommend any. But I get the point that people like to come here for the quality, but can't adapt to the rules which provide that quality.
    – Tom
    Commented Aug 22, 2019 at 22:12
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    Well...when you call curators idiots...I can't help but think you've got the wrong idea as to what we're trying to accomplish. The quality here exists because of how questions get treated here. To be sure, there can be a balance, but that balance doesn't have to be loosening the standards. As for gatekeeping, well, you have to know something about programming to really accomplish something here. We can't teach you the basics.
    – fbueckert
    Commented Aug 22, 2019 at 22:20
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    @Tom - There are two kinds of quality. Quality in the sense of an overall good question is what I care about when I search in the search box or on Google. For quality in the sense of a question worth answering I look for people who are sincerely making an effort to ask a good question according to the site's guidelines. Commented Aug 22, 2019 at 22:20
  • @fbueckert - When I was talking about complete idiots, I wasn't referring to people on StackOverflow. I do not think the people who close questions just because they think the question is a dumb, low-quality question are idiots. Commented Aug 22, 2019 at 22:22
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    @Omnifarious "Name one where people will actually get a decent answer to their question." - books, tutorials, articles on the fundamentals of programming for beginners. There - three sources that aren't SO that can answer questions not suitable for SO. Not every single question, sure, but there are a lot of questions about people basically asking how to do a for loop or something equally simple yet requires a lot of explanation, since they haven't covered the basics. You can't really say "loop over the array and do X" to somebody who doesn't know what an array is or how to write a loop.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Aug 23, 2019 at 6:58
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    "...a very competent programmer, who stays away from here because of how people here treat questions. He's been struggling to find a forum to have professional conversations that aren't full of complete idiots who think they know way more than they do" To be blunt: maybe the way people here treat questions is the reason for the lack of said idiots. Commented Aug 23, 2019 at 8:25
  • @ThomasSchremser - frankly the way most IT people in general treat people who don't know what they know is reprehensible and the reason I generally avoid having them as friends or talking to them more than I have to. It's shameful and despicable behavior. The elitism and egotism smells like yesterday's diapers. It's the absolute least pleasant part of being in this field. Commented Aug 23, 2019 at 23:12

1 Answer 1

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No.

For one, a tag discerning this would be a meta-tag; that is, a tag that adds no information to the post.

We can help people who have their questions closed by teaching them how to use the site properly. No need to separate the "two parts" of Stack Overflow with a tag.

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  • They are using the site properly. They just get shut out because they don't know the language they're using well enough to ask a question that fits somebody's idea of what a 'good question' is. In the case I highlight I would struggle to come up with a way the question doesn't meet the ostensible site definition of a good question. Commented Aug 25, 2019 at 0:28
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    @Omnifarious This isn't a "teach me a language" site. You need to know the language you're programming in to ask a good question here.
    – S.S. Anne
    Commented Aug 25, 2019 at 0:30
  • Really? You could've fooled me. That's what I use it for. I've learned a ton about various languages from this site. Practically every question I ask betrays some sort of lack of understanding about how a computer language works or how to use it. And some of those questions have been rated pretty highly. Commented Aug 25, 2019 at 6:34
  • @Omnifarious Let me rephrase that: "you have to have basic knowledge about the language you're programming in to ask here".
    – S.S. Anne
    Commented Aug 25, 2019 at 15:00

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