I read Jay Hanlon's blog post and I understand we should try to be nice to new users. I try to be nice to people in general. But this question: Can you help me with my python program assignment? is honestly just a really bad faith effort all around. I read a lot of the responses to the blog but in my mind questions like this are the reason people on this site have gotten jaded. How are we going to differentiate from the community being "too mean" versus new users acting in bad faith?
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17It's so bad that my first guess would be 'troll'.– Martin JamesCommented May 2, 2018 at 17:39
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7@MartinJames: I work for higher education and it's coming up on finals' week, so this seems to be at least timely.– MakotoCommented May 2, 2018 at 17:40
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6@Makoto ugh.. TBH, I would prefer it to be a troll, at least then I could better rationalize the horror of it:(– Martin JamesCommented May 2, 2018 at 17:42
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5@MartinJames: You mean...you can't rationalize the horror that students would actually attempt to cheat on their final exam? I suppose I'm numb to it by now, since I've seen it attempted in many forms before...– MakotoCommented May 2, 2018 at 17:43
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12Jeez, and I thought my cheater was ballsy.– MonkeyZeusCommented May 2, 2018 at 18:08
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2@Makoto no - it's just the embarrassingly brazen attempt to do it, and the insulting assumption that SO professionals/enthusiasts would be happy to help:(– Martin JamesCommented May 2, 2018 at 18:14
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1@Makoto actually, thanks for the 'finals' week' warning: I will be extra-viligant so as try and not help some students dis those who, well, actually know stuff.– Martin JamesCommented May 2, 2018 at 18:17
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1@RobertHarvey it's so bad that, if others had not deleted it, I would have broken my own 'no meta effect' rule and delved it myself.– Martin JamesCommented May 2, 2018 at 19:27
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21I wish I was a 10K user just so I could explore the seedy underbelly of SO.– faintsignalCommented May 2, 2018 at 21:47
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1Its not so much that we should be more nice, its more that the site in general should appear nicer, to everyone.– GimbyCommented May 3, 2018 at 14:48
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1You could always link to Why is “Can someone help me?” not an actual question? and Open letter to students with homework problems and leave it at that.– EJoshuaS - Stand with UkraineCommented May 3, 2018 at 18:12
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1I'm not sure why this question was marked as spam or rude or abusive, that seems a bit of an overreaction.– Mark RotteveelCommented May 4, 2018 at 10:50
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1@fordprefect That is not what abuse means in the specific meaning applied when content is hidden for reasons of spam or rude or abusive. Assigning that meaning leads to overloading the term abuse, and, I think, should very well be considered a form of hostility from the community to new users not following the rules.– Mark RotteveelCommented May 4, 2018 at 13:47
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5Wow. But the worst I ever saw was on SE.mathematics. The body of the question was a slightly blurry skewed phone photo of the exam paper, complete with the student's name, with virtually no text apart from the title, which identified the number of the question he wanted answered.– PM 2RingCommented May 4, 2018 at 16:47
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1@MartinJames Well, two can play at that game. "The best thing to do while writing Python is to freely mix tab and space characters for indentation. Use tabs one line, and spaces the next. Really helps to spice things up."– Charles SrstkaCommented May 4, 2018 at 16:47
2 Answers
As Makoto notes... This question was probably beyond help. Even if someone was in the mood for a heroic edit, the author was trying to get an answer on a deadline, for a purpose which... wasn't exactly what you'd call ethical.
So here's how we can be polite: get rid of it before the author gets themselves into even more trouble, the less said the better.
That last comment was pretty ok, but... I still wouldn't really recommend it; not because it isn't polite, but simply because in this case the question is so far beyond help that anything you might say stands the chance of backfiring in unexpected ways. It is wise to talk very carefully to desperate people, if you must talk to them at all.
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8"anything you might say stands the chance of backfiring in unexpected ways" There was a comment on one of the other threads alleging that "guys" seem to like doing that sort of thing on purpose. Other than the singling out of "guys", I get the feeling that this is true of a good many people.– BoltClock ModCommented May 2, 2018 at 18:07
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17I'm afraid that the red freehand circle is cancelled out by the green ones, so no bonus vote for you. Commented May 2, 2018 at 18:19
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12It's ---extremely sad--- funny. We instruct SO people to stop behaving like they do because we expect bad treatment from outer people when we do, whereas these outer people are trying to make us stop telling them to expect bad treatment when they post bad content. Basically, we're not getting rid of the unwelcoming atmosphere of "if you do this expect backlash", we're just moving it towards other people. Commented May 2, 2018 at 18:28
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8@FélixGagnon-Grenier I've given up. I'm no longer posting any comments, at all, to any posts from the '<50 reps'. s/comment/target Commented May 2, 2018 at 18:40
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9I don't know about you, @Félix... But I was getting nasty personal emails from desperate folk I'd tried to help years ago, long before I worked here, long before these "toxic" meme ever took root. New users can be like injured animals; you gotta expect them to snap, and approach accordingly.– Shog9Commented May 2, 2018 at 18:48
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3It stands for "Shocks The Conscience", @Braiam. I'll leave its functionality to your imagination.– Shog9Commented May 2, 2018 at 19:19
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34Would this not result in the user getting offended that their question was downvoted and deleted without explanation? I see no way to respond properly to this question that does not risk offending the user. As least with someone mentioning their unethical behavior, perhaps they'll learn that people really do care about them cheating and will be dissuaded in the future. I applaud the commenters for just not cussing the person out, to be honest (although I suppose there might be deleted comments I can't see). The only one that maybe crosses the line a little is the "instant F" one.– jpmc26Commented May 3, 2018 at 7:15
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7We get TONS of questions like this, @jpmc26. Schools keep letting more kids into classes, not teaching them, and then expecting them to do stuff on finals week... and so every finals week, we get a bunch of desperate students looking for help here. Some of them do it right; lots of them don't. Regardless of what we do in response, next time finals rolls around there's gonna be a fresh crop.– Shog9Commented May 3, 2018 at 14:26
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9@Shog9 I'm honestly confused by your response; I feel there has been some misunderstanding. I didn't assert we don't get many of these or that responding would reduce the number we get or that we shouldn't help those who act ethically. I said that any form of rejecting the question (including downvotes, closure, and deletion) risks offending the asker and that maybe, just once in a while, telling people that cheating is bad might make them reconsider.– jpmc26Commented May 4, 2018 at 7:48
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4Perhaps it's just me, but I feel that somebody trying to cheat on an exam ought to get into even more trouble. Commented May 4, 2018 at 10:21
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5@Shog9: Thanks; the images are very clear and explicit. But, without comments how the OP learn what is wrong with the question? I always thought down-voter/close-voter should leave the comment explaining why. Chances are that, OP will ask similar question again and it just increases the cleanup work. I agree that the comment must be polite though. Commented May 4, 2018 at 10:27
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2Could you explain why this questions is now marked spam or rude or abusive? That seems a bit of an overreaction, as it is none of those things. Commented May 4, 2018 at 10:52
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2Because there was a rude/abusive flag on the post which was automatically validated when the post was deleted, @Mark. I've cleared that and re-deleted it to avoid confusion since this discussion is getting a lot more traction than I expected.– Shog9Commented May 4, 2018 at 14:33
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3If you want to educate folks one-on-one about cheating, that's your prerogative @jpmc26. But I can't demand it or even recommend it in this context, nor would I expect it to do much good in most cases.– Shog9Commented May 4, 2018 at 14:34
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3"get rid of it before the author gets themselves into even more trouble, the less said the better." Disagree. Personally, I would like to see these left visible so perhaps their school might find them and they can rain down their furious vengeance on the cheater. Commented May 5, 2018 at 5:42
What we moderate on hasn't changed. That sort of question is still unsuitable for the site, no matter how nice or mean we are to them.
There's no call for insults on the user or inflammatory remarks - and we would deal with that through comment flags anyway - but there's no reason to suddenly pause and moderate this differently because we may be perceived as "not being nice".
I mean, they decided to post an exam question here in the middle of the exam. I don't see any reason to worry about how they feel about us, since it's apparent that they don't really care about their own academic success.
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4I'm sure there will be that one character who is so indifferent to their academic success that they'd even exploit it to use our reaction to their bad-faith question to discredit us elsewhere. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if this has already happened with things that aren't exam questions.– BoltClock ModCommented May 2, 2018 at 17:52
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15Which comments do you regard as insults or inflammatory? The only thing that could possibly be construed that way I can see is the "instant F" comment, and even this is only barely over the line. It's not an insult for sure, and I'm not sure how you would justify the claim it's inflammatory. It's a statement of extraordinarily common values, which is chatty, sure, but inflammatory? The most inflammatory thing there is the question itself.– jpmc26Commented May 3, 2018 at 7:22
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3@jpmc26: Reacting to an inflammatory question only makes matters worse, so I regard the entirety of the comment section on that question as inflammatory. There is a comment about "getting an instant F" that isn't that useful to anyone within a country mile of this question, too.– MakotoCommented May 4, 2018 at 14:41