151

There's so much confusion and debate over what is and what is expected of users with the Code of Conduct changing. There's a fine line we step between being frank in our discourse and what others consider rude. As a site we don't want to tie our community in knots over what they can and cannot say.

This question got me thinking about how we are supposed to tell someone nicely, they could have googled something before asking on SO.

What if they COULD google their question in 5 seconds?

Many seasoned user utilise scripts for auto comments, however it would be better to have these comments within the UI available to all users. This will also reduce unnecessary flagging for well phrased comments that are considered abusive for users unable to tolerate any type of critical feedback.

The canned comments covering areas like:
note these are not comment suggestions, they're throw away lines that are frequently used as part of comments

  • lack of research did you try Google?
  • lack of basic understanding go read a book!
  • no MCVE when needed what did you try?
  • no repro, a simple typo or this doesn't compile
  • wrong tags
  • rude comments
  • no English

and so on..

1. What comments does the site need?

and

2. Can the site please update our canned comments and provide us with welcoming approved comments that will address a considerable bulk of our SO needs?


This was asked a long time ago, but the social climate of the site has changed considerably May we have some "canned comments"?

58
  • 11
    I'm wondering if you have some stats on how many of the current auto-comments are flagged? I guess looking at any comments that start with Welcome to Stack Overflow (those come from users that use the pro-forma auto comment userscript) and that still got flagged are probably not good stock comments we use now. So that might help to get a feel which wording doesn't work and then we can improve from there.
    – rene
    Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 5:10
  • 31
    Another thing to consider is if we should really leave a comment if it basically replicates what will be in a close reason notice. No comments might be preferred there? If so, we shouldn't have auto-comments that simply replicates a close reason. Advice users to flag/close vote in those cases.
    – rene
    Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 5:14
  • 16
    @Cerbrus not at all, it's all in the evolving stage, why not brainstorm it now. It wouldn't be implemented immediately.
    – user3956566
    Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 7:03
  • 10
    @Cerbrus I removed mine from there, as many of them now would not fit with the developing CoC. for e.g. "idownvotedbecau.se" comments are often being flagged. Which is a shame, they're useful, have a lot of info and give the OP a chance to ping the downvoter for a vote reversal if they improve the question.
    – user3956566
    Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 7:22
  • 4
    I would be in favour of a set of 'approved', canned comments if they were anonymous for ordinary users, (but visible to mods in case of misuse). Non-canned, specific comments should keep the username of the poster. Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 8:32
  • 9
    @YvetteColomb "idownvotedbecau.se" comments are often being flagged' - I believe you, but what are they being flagged as? AFAIK, there is no flag for 'hey, this appeared instead of a copypasta answer for my assignment' or 'what? If I could debug my own code, I would not bother posting to SO' :( Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 8:36
  • 39
    I really dislike the use of 'toxic' in the 'welcoming' dicussions. A very large proportion of medicines are toxic but, neverthless, it's really good idea overall to take them as prescribed. Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 9:32
  • 5
    For zero-effort, my standard is "Welcome to SO. Please provide a [mcve]." For some effort, I take the effort to write a sentence or two on specific improvements. So far, over ~4k comments, I don't believe I've ever been accused of being harsh. I often accompany my comment with a VTC / DV (in that order), and very rarely do I receive retaliatory downvotes. Very simple and seems to work. The trick is to avoid a discussion, and prefer upvoting existing comments [only comment when you can add value].
    – jpp
    Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 10:46
  • 6
    @jpp totally agree, with the back and forth if the OP is resistant. However you'd be surprised what gets flagged as r/a. Just because you're not seeing it, doesn't mean it's not happening. If they're site approved canned responses it makes it clear that they're acceptable.
    – user3956566
    Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 10:53
  • 9
    @MartinJames: I really dislike the use of 'welcoming' in Meta discussions...
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 11:02
  • 5
    @MartinJames "toxic" is more about how something is used, rather than an invariable property of something. Water is toxic at high levels, Paracetamol is non-toxic at low levels. You could say that both or neither "are toxic" but that's not the full story. So I think "toxic" is a good fit in the "welcoming" discussion. It doesn't mean "this message is bad", it means "the way the message was delivered is bad". e.g. "You're an idiot who hasn't read How to Ask." vs "Welcome to SO. Check out the How to Ask page." same valid message, different levels of toxicity.
    – user310988
    Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 11:40
  • 9
    @StephenC insincere or not, it's hard to be sincere when you're singularly frustrated with a user. A canned comments resolves that if the user chooses that rather than writing a potentially rude or abusive custom comment. Also a lot of comments that are not r/a are flagged - daily - it would get us all on the same page. Just like we have canned closed reasons and flag reasons. Increase the number of canned comment reasons.
    – user3956566
    Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 11:43
  • 6
    By insincere, I mean words that we say just for the sake of appearing to be polite. For instance "Welcome to SO" when you actually feel like saying "go away you lazy so and so".
    – Stephen C
    Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 11:51
  • 10
    @StephenC lol you hit the nail on the head. Being polite has nothing to do with sincerity, it has everything to do with biting your tongue and remaining civil. We just uncovered a large area of confusion probably with many people.
    – user3956566
    Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 11:54
  • 23
    @rene no comments might be prefeered, We (SE) is really getting it wrong, it has already been shown that user that get no response from community is the less likely to return. I'm afraid that probably with all this hysteria we are actually creating a less "welcoming" community Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 12:37

8 Answers 8

23

We're looking at this right now. Where we are, in short, is in perfect agreement that we need some kind of feedback loop from experienced to new users that isn't free-form text. That's .. where we tend to not shine as much as we should.

The immediate, cheap, no-frills way to accomplish this is to have a selection of 3-5 canned comments. But let's look at the minimum goals, here:

  • Inform the user that some action is needed on their question
  • Show other experienced users that the new user has been informed (no pile-on effects)
  • Doesn't become highly-visible, perpetual criticism even after the issues have been addressed

Canned comments do bend to fit those goals. While some of the cogs in that machine rely heavily on consciousness, it would (if implemented correctly) be at least marginally better than what we've currently got.

Now, two more goals that'd be nice to have:

  • If (n) users indicate a question needs (x) action, allow for some time to pass before allowing the post to be put on-hold. These days, you get feedback just as fast as close votes and come back to an explosion that's unlikely to be reopened, even if you did fix the question.

  • We can't have a list of canned comments so long that no three people could agree on which one would be appropriate (or, if any would be appropriate). When you just don't like something but can't really say why, another kind of (or perhaps no) engagement is probably what's needed. Exhaustive lists of canned responses might turn into the wrong kind of inspiration.

If you wrap up all of the goals, comments become a pretty weak hinge in it, and what we actually need on questions is a more robust feedback loop that uses the software to send signal instead of canned (or ad-hoc) text. Relying more on UX writing, with links to resources might be better.

Would you rather come back to your post and see a bunch of canned comments, some upvoted multiple times, or would you rather the system guide you through issues with your post, and notes that it's not going to get visibility beyond being linked on your profile until you make at least one edit (with links to help)? The latter is definitely preferable, and offers far less opportunity for folks to speak out of frustration.

We're looking at what a proper-ish implementation would be in terms of hours and resources, which will help us decide if it's worth gluing (max) 3 - 5 canned comments that can be edited in place until we can roll something nicer out.

The user research around the CoC pretty well points at this being something most would see as helpful, we think we could make the idea even better, but we're going to be realistic about what we think we can get done and when.

We'll toss out a discussion on which way we're going as soon as we figure out what that looks like. July 2018 is totally sank schedule wise, so we're looking at late August 2018 at the earliest, but we're also looking at re-prioritizing depending on what we're sure we can ship with a couple of weeks worth of work.

Stay tuned :)

32
  • 61
    Mind you, the "wait for some time until the post can be put on hold" was exactly what the whole "on hold" vs "closed" distinction is supposed to serve, no? Is that so unsuccessful that we need a third tier of escalation?
    – Magisch
    Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 14:07
  • 36
    These days, you get feedback just as fast as close votes and come back to an explosion that's unlikely to be reopened, even if you did fix the question. seems to be a X/Y problem in my opinion. If we're not getting reopen-worthy questions reopened, that might be a reason to redesign / rework the reopen review system and thresholds.
    – Magisch
    Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 14:11
  • 1
    agree, of course it's better for the system to take care of things, but there will always be the need for human eyes (or tree eyes), which is why we have mod privileges. At least it will help guide people until the "bigger and better" fix can be made. Some people are seriously bewildered about what to write.
    – user3956566
    Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 14:12
  • 8
    These days, you get feedback just as fast as close votes and come back to an explosion that's unlikely to be reopened, even if you did fix the question. Do we have stats for this? I typically wait a few minutes after commenting for further information and a lot of the questions I run into the OP never responds to the. Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 14:13
  • 16
    @NathanOliver I think Shog or Jon Ericson once posted at MSE stats showing that reopen rate at SO is indeed very poor. But (and this is a very very big BUT), the only way I can think of sensibly implementing "holding on-hold" proposed by Tim is to make sure that question can't be answered when in this state. Otherwise, fastest gun rep-hunters will come and answer it and all the community moderation efforts will go straight to trash can. Because, if you think of it, it wouldn't make sense for asker to bother improving if they are fed the answer already
    – gnat
    Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 14:40
  • 3
    All the canned comments should include at least one link to a useful resource. No matter how nicely I rephrase the comment 'Please provide an MCVE!', if it doesn't have a link it will always be rude. And for me it's too much effort to look for the appropriate link every time I comment, even if I bookmark them all.
    – Joooeey
    Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 14:54
  • 12
    If only we had some sort of existing list of reasons to explain what's wrong with a question... As long as we're fantasizing, let's say people were already using these reasons, the functionality to prevent duplication was already there and the main problem we needed to deal with was visibility. Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 15:10
  • 2
    @gnat use this one meta.stackoverflow.com/a/266844/792066
    – Braiam
    Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 15:53
  • 3
    "These days, you get feedback just as fast as close votes" because if I actually held each browser tab for every close-worthy question open for a while to see if the OP responded I would probably run out of memory; and that would make me sad :(. Same problem for checking for reopens. Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 20:41
  • 3
    (continued) Non-generic comments are most beneficial to those users who choose to participate in SO and actually care about making their question good/answerable, rather than those who's attitude is just "give me my answer now" (who don't care that their question can't be answered in it's current form). If you're advocating eliminating free-form comments, then, IMO, doing so would be attempting to forestall those people who are offended by a relatively low % of the total comments by eliminating the ability of a much larger number of users to actually get help and make good Q&A content.
    – Makyen Mod
    Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 21:52
  • 43
    @TimPost, Uh, while trying to be too much welcoming, did you forget that the main goal of the site is to create a repository of good questions and quality answers? If we need to wait until the OP returns before closing the post, then aren't we just filling the front page with junk? The OP has loads of time before posting the question, why don't they fix it then? Try to prevent them from posting closable content instead of cutting the hands of the numerous volunteers who spend their time trying to attain the original goal of the site.
    – Bhargav Rao Mod
    Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 23:25
  • 19
    I've never opposed any policy of yours (atleast in public), but asking people to wait, just because the OP is fixing, is a very bad idea.
    – Bhargav Rao Mod
    Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 23:25
  • 3
    @BhargavRao "...or would you rather the system guide you through issues with your post, and notes that it's not going to get visibility beyond being linked on your profile until you make at least one edit (with links to help)?" sounds like they could delist the question from the frontpage or high-traffic pages until the OP makes an edit. In effect, it's not quite closing with all the harsh connotations that word conveys, but also not polluting everyone else's feed.
    – Troyen
    Commented Jul 24, 2018 at 0:52
  • 12
    @Troyen, that answers one of my questions, but unfortunately the others still remain. Why aren't we providing them enough resources to prevent asking bad posts at the start, but instead, trying to patch up later?
    – Bhargav Rao Mod
    Commented Jul 24, 2018 at 0:59
  • 7
    @BhargavRao vote early, vote often seems to be lost stackoverflow.blog/2010/10/19/vote-early-vote-often
    – Braiam
    Commented Jul 24, 2018 at 15:06
56

Common Preamble

Dear Precious Snowflake, I apologize for my inability to help you. It is not your fault. It is mine. Entirely mine. I'm really sorry to bother you with anything short of an immediate answer, but perhaps please could you

Custom Body

  • lack of research did you try Google?

    ...give me a few seconds to research this for you?

    [lmgtfy]

  • lack of basic understanding go read a book!

    ...give me a few weeks while I write a tutorial for you?

    [silver-spoon]

  • no MCVE when needed what did you try?

    ...let me guess what you would try if it wasn't so unfairly hard?

    [there-is-no-try]

  • no repro, a simple typo or this doesn't compile

  • wrong tags

    ...let me handle the details while you focus on the big picture?

    [ceo]

  • rude comments

    ...forgive me for having an impertinent thought?

    [suppressed]

  • no English

    ...wait while I learn a foreign language?

    [babel]

Common Closing

Thank you for this opportunity to help you, and, most importantly, thank you for just being you.

8
  • 21
    This answer made me smile :)
    – user3956566
    Commented Jul 24, 2018 at 0:21
  • 10
    alternative preamble: "We apologise for any inconvenience that voting down, closing and deletion of your question may have caused you, and we appreciate your understanding. Thanks for your cooperation, looking forward to hearing from you after 6 months of question block!"
    – gnat
    Commented Jul 24, 2018 at 5:08
  • 3
    I'll be upset if this isn't gonna make it in!
    – deW1
    Commented Jul 24, 2018 at 15:18
  • 1
    Now just put those into shorthand tags like [mcve] or [ask] and I'll happily use them.
    – user4039065
    Commented Jul 25, 2018 at 15:03
  • 2
    @Jeeped: I've added suggested [abbreviations]. I wonder how long until SO will implement.
    – kjhughes
    Commented Jul 25, 2018 at 16:27
  • 1
    Put this to a vote and I'll vote on it. /me ticks box
    – Signal15
    Commented Dec 3, 2019 at 20:37
  • -1 I hope you are joking, but on the internet it is impossible to tell. If you actually posted this a comment with this preamble and closing, it would be super mean Commented Jun 2, 2023 at 14:22
  • @AndreyBienkowski: Seeing satire as "super mean" is super silly.
    – kjhughes
    Commented Jun 2, 2023 at 15:01
33

OK, Can we have some site approved canned comments

There is nothing that can be posted in reply to a question that cannot be perceived as hostile except, (mostly), a comprehensive answer.

The 'becaus.se' links do point a valuable information, helpful for debugging etc, but that is not what many users want: anything except an answer is automatically hostile.

SO curators don't want to attach their username to any 'you should improve your post' comments because they don't want to be mugged by flagging, 'Contact us' emails or, worst, blog & tattler.

If there are to be 'approved' canned comments, they should be anonymous to ordinary users, eg: 'postXXXX', and the real username only available to CM/mods. That prevents direct counter-attacks, eg. from enraged users who cannot hand in 'their' homework because no answer is forthcoming from the drone army.

match the new CoC and welcoming?

The cans should, as far as reasonably possible, contain only factual information/advice. No 'Welcome to SO', no 'You can Google this in 5 secs'. Just facts/advice. Just like compiler/linker error messages and warnings. Those tools are what programmers absolutely have to deal with and so, if OP's object to comments of a similar style, they are on very shaky ground anyway if they try to claim hostility - they are effectively claiming they cannot handle the required tools to program computers.

In a humorous post, I suggested 'error message' comments like:

Error #01, requirementDump detected in paragraph 1, question-handling terminated with action downClose vote

Error #02, homeworkDump detected in paragraph 1, question-handling terminated with action downClose vote

Error #03, basicBadSyntax detected in paragraph 1, question-handling terminated with action downClose vote

Error #04, FAQduplicate detected in paragraph 1, question-handling terminated with action downClose vote

Error #05, multipleDuplicate detected in paragraph 1, question-handling terminated with action downClose vote

Error #06, noResearch detected in paragraph 1, question-handling terminated with action downClose vote

Error #07, missingInputData detected in paragraph 1, question-handling terminated with action downClose vote

Error #08, missingErrorMessages detected in paragraph 1, question-handling terminated with action downClose vote

Error #09 missing outputData in paragraph 1, question-handling terminated with action downClose vote

Error #0A noDebugDetails detected in paragraph 1, question-handling terminated with action downClose vote

Error #0B missingDebugDetails detected in paragraph 1, question-handling terminated with action downClose vote

Error #0C gimmeTehCodez detected in paragraph 1, question-handling terminated with action downClose vote

Such comments would likely cause an uproar in that form, sure, but it is exactly those kind of comments that are defendable as 'not hostile' on a site for software developers.

Canned comments should be more human-readable, sure, but the same aim should be there - information and explicit advice only. Defluffed and detoxed all avoidable redundancy removed.

[EDIT] after reading the other non-canned comments on this question, there should be a restriction to one canned comment per question, so staving off the 'hostile curators keep piling on' moans.

Possible examples for explaining downvotes and giving advice:

Copy/paste into your question the complete error-message.

Highlight in your code which line caused the first syntax error with '// << here'

Use a debugger to detect which line raised the segfault/AV and highlight in your code with '// << here'

Google language name followed by your exact title

Compile and run it

Show command-line used to run it

Show full output from the run

Canned comments to explain upvotes are more problematic:(

20
  • 14
    I don't believe that my compiler always tries to be nice to me. He's always complaining about something. When he has a bad day, the conversation can turn hostile very fast...
    – BDL
    Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 13:09
  • 27
    @BDL hey that's humour, it's not allowed ;)
    – user3956566
    Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 13:17
  • 13
    @BDL well, you could always stop it if it gets annoying, but commands like 'kill -9' can be seen as hostile, or even death threats:). Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 13:18
  • 6
    @NisargShah then prepare to suffer as human, since you will be in a roller coaster of incredulity, frustration and disbelief as how much imbalance there is between the effort you spend trying to do good for everyone.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 13:50
  • 23
    I have to down vote because, I don't read error message. Thats why I am on SO. I would like you stop assuming I do. I get error message every day that's harassment. I have a whistle for that. [jk] Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 13:53
  • 3
    I have a feeling this is more of a tongue & cheek commentary
    – Magisch
    Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 13:56
  • 10
    @DragandDrop more humour?! Flagged ;)
    – user3956566
    Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 14:00
  • 2
    @YvetteColomb You're a mod now, your flags have no power anymore! (I think mod comment flags instadelete, right?)
    – Magisch
    Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 14:04
  • 8
    Or perhaps we can all agree on one crucial thing : devs are trying to build a "safe space" like experience on SO which is indeed imcompatible with criticism, this needs to stop as SO is supposed to be a place to improve and share knowledge which ask the need of constructive criticism but as it is now, snowflakes, lazy askers and peoples like them are more important to the devs than the contributors, the peoples with the actual knowledge this platform needs and those who are trying to help. That's all for me.
    – N.K
    Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 14:08
  • 8
    Error #FF failedSarcasmAttempt detected in paragraphs, answer-handling terminated with action curtomModFlag report user vote
    – rene
    Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 14:12
  • 4
    @NisargShah 'I do not want to pretend to be a compiler' . and I'm not suggesting that you become one. The over-the-top list of 'error-messages' above was a reaction to some of the more extreme and ridiculous 'welcoming' initiatives, not as a firm suggestion. I'm proposing non-computerized canned comments, but in the same style - nothing beyond info/advice. No 'please', no 'Welcome!', no 'Trivial Google'. I added an example or two of possible comments, the aim being to assist the OP, but not in any way that could be interpreted as unacceptable to an actual programmer. Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 14:45
  • 11
    .. to put it bluntly, the defense would be 'if you cannot handle the info/advice given, you cannot handle computer programming, because that kind of response that is all you get from the tools that you cannot avoid using to develop software'. Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 14:49
  • 2
    I'm willing to start a comment with "please" or "welcome to SO" for new users. Apart from that, a direct response in a comment should be fine. People visit SO to find solutions to technical problems, not to join a social club. Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 14:54
  • 5
    @S.L.Barth [some subset of OP's]; "hey! That's patronizing and condescending! 'Welcome to SO' indeed - why not just answer my question? I'm flagging that now and I'll blog it as an example of how utterly unhelpful SO has become!" You cannot win with personalized comments.to bad questions:( Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 15:01
  • 6
    @usr2564301 that does not surprise me in the slightest, and reinforces what I have thought for some time now - in many cases, most comment content is largely irrelevant, and the only important thing to the OP is that a comment appears in place of an answer and so must therefore be considered hostile:( Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 18:36
32

Dear God, please no.

Comments are getting far too much power and authority and useful information - that is, the call-to-action that we want them to take when we have an issue with their question - is going to get buried by comments.

The most effective tool would be some kind of message on the question itself that indicates that there may be a problem here.

Canned comments are prone to abuse and misuse and will not actually deliver the message in the way that the community either wants to or intends to. They're cheap and easy, but they're not right.

Tim Post, if you happen to scan this answer, I would espouse a resolution that gets this more correct as opposed to gets this out the door quickly.

7
  • 2
    introduce something like question annotation?
    – gnat
    Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 15:40
  • 1
    @gnat: That'd put the burden of giving guiding and helpful feedback on the users who actually do edit and review questions. Not sure I'm seeing a downside to this, actually...
    – Makoto
    Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 15:43
  • 1
    well I see no downsides either. The upside seems to be clear conceptual and UI difference to regular comments which looks well justified because these things are so much different indeed. Your idea makes great food for thought
    – gnat
    Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 15:47
  • 2
    My read on Tim's answer above is that any solution using comments (canned or no) in their current form would be considered a very temporary stopgap, not a real solution. And additionally that they are considering more fundamental UX changes (e.g. the annotation idea) instead as a real solution. I'm hopeful.
    – joran
    Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 15:50
  • 1
    @joran: I'm countering that to say that the stopgap measure is not valuable. We need to stop treating comments as some kind of magical middle ground when they serve a very, very specific purpose on the main site.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 15:54
  • 2
    Heh, I'm just trying to be positive, man! ;) It seems clear from Tim's answer that the ultimate direction is clearly away from free-form text comments, which seems like a positive thing.
    – joran
    Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 15:56
  • @usr2564301 5 clicks might be reasonable on well trafficed tags, but on tags that don't get a lot of traffic, asking for more than 1 such click isn't reasonable.
    – Makyen Mod
    Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 21:05
29

I would very much like canned responses. However, I would like them even more if we could agree on some things:

  1. They are never ever mandatory

    If there is one thing that I understood from my meta question: Can we incorporate what idownvotedbecau.se is trying to do?, it's that users don't want to forced to justify their voting. Consider this very detailed answer to: Why isn't providing feedback mandatory on downvotes, and why are ideas suggesting such shot down?.

    Forcing downvotes to be accompanied by a comment sounds like a good idea at first, and many here would like to see new users get all the info they need to ask questions that are a better fit! Contrary to popular opinion, most users here are nice and want to help rather than enjoying "shooting down" newbies' questions with downvotes to make them feel bad and unwelcome.

    However, Stack Overflow has become a big city. Big cities need different rules to survive than small villages - and tend to feel more anonymous and harsh as a result.

    Downvotes are important for the health of the site, and mandating comments for them would massively impede the way Stack Overflow currently works—to the point of potentially destroying it. It's just not feasible, for a number of very good reasons. That's why, although this gets suggested frequently (on average, 2–3 times per week), it is declined and often downvoted by the Meta veterans.

  2. They should be anonymous or even "systemized"

    If we give feedback to users at the system level, like with a banner right above their question that says: "Your question is being downvoted because it has no code in it" or whatever, the user has no specific user to argue with. They can't revenge downvote, they can't get into a comment war except with themselves.

    Consider this feature request posted in 2014: Enable Optional Anonymous Reasons for Downvotes on Questions.

  3. They should augment, not replace, the current comment system

    I don't want canned comments to be the only comments I can provide to a user and I don't want my comment to automatically be suspect because I didn't use a canned comment.

4
  • 4
    Agree on no mandatory commenting
    – user3956566
    Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 15:24
  • 6
    I agree wholeheartedly on both points. The canned comments should not replace 'normal' free-test comments. The should be an anonymized alternative, and only one allowed per question. No type of comment should be mandatory. Commented Jul 23, 2018 at 16:16
  • Do you mean "one per question" ... or "one per A/C per question"? (I think you mean the former ... but which do you pick for an egregiously bad question?) Maybe these shouldn't be shown as comments. Maybe there should be a separate "issues that require your attention" or "feedback" section ... that (maybe) is only visible to the OP?
    – Stephen C
    Commented Jul 24, 2018 at 0:08
  • @StephenC yes, strictly one per question, no matter who really posted it. If the Q, is bad for multiple reasons and covered by multiple canned-comments, then the commenter will just have to pick one. Other users who wish to 'support' the canned comment can upvote it, should they wish, or add their own 'normal' non-anonymous, free-text comment, asking for clarification, or adding extra details/advice. "feedback" section - good plan, but one that I suspect would take 6-8 years for implementation:( Commented Jul 24, 2018 at 9:31
14

This feature already exists. This is what the "close reason" text is for a question put on hold. Just say nothing and vote to close. Or downvote. The only times that is not informative enough is when you have something specific to the question asked, for which a canned comment is impossible.


Tim Post gives the game away:

If (n) users indicate a question needs (x) action, allow for some time to pass before allowing the post to be put on-hold.

So, it's official, confirming what was blogged before: SE considers the whole process of quality control on questions (including voting to close) as unwelcoming.

Tim, "Some time is allowed to pass" to allow posters to fix their crap questions before they get deleted. No additional grace period is needed. If you really want to maintain the quality standards.

3
  • 7
    In fact most of them need to be deleted from the site more quickly.
    – user3956566
    Commented Jul 24, 2018 at 12:08
  • 3
    One substantial difference between Tim's proposal and current close votes is that it would seem the proposal allows for feedback to be shown immediately. Of course, there's already a feature request to allow that for close votes, which would simplify things a lot and be generally much superior. Commented Jul 24, 2018 at 18:09
  • 1
    I think it's difficult to come back from a closure. To me, the close reason banner is more of what you could have done to make their question better. The feature this question is discussing is trying to tell the poster what they can do, right now, before the post gets closed, to make their question better. I don't think it should prevent closure or even delay it if the post is bad enough. I do worry if your interpretation of Tim's post is correct.
    – zero298
    Commented Jul 25, 2018 at 14:54
7

I wanted to add some comment suggestions to see if people like them. They can all be edited to customise them for a post, or they may stand alone as a canned response without the obvious tinny sound of a canned response (one can hope).


Why was this downvoted?

For Question:

I'd say the downvotes are to indicate it's not a good question for the site. Have a good read here. Don't lose hope, as many of us have bad start with our first posts.

For Answer:

I'd say the downvotes are to indicate it's not a good answer for the site. Have a good read here. Don't lose hope, as many of us have bad start with our first posts.

No MVCE

Please provide a [MCVE]* so we can help you find the problem.

Too much code

Please provide a [MCVE]*, there is too much code to sift through, focus on the minimal so we can help you find the problem.

Lack of research / Minimal Understanding

It might be a good idea to search Google or the site so you can gain a better understanding and refine your question. Please have a good read of how to ask a good question.

Typo

This is the result of a simple typo <.insert typo> and should be closed as such.

No repro

I'm unable to reproduce your problem. Check your code and ensure you've included an [MCVE]*.

Not English

This site is an English speaking site. Consider trying <.insert another site alternative if there is one>


nb: remove the '.' from <.insert

The use of the first person, hopefully, makes them personable.

My auto comments are here and I will focus on making them a little friendlier. I'm happy for people to use them or offer feedback on the gist. It's good to remember they are also designed for moderator use, so some of them are tailored for that.

* note that's the short cut to https://stackoverflow.com/help/mcve


I also have this on my profile:

Learning Android, C, C++, C#, Java, JS, PHP, Python?

Any other language?

Go to tags --> search and click on the tag e.g. iOS --> click on votes.
Now you have an excellent knowledge base for any tag you need.

7
  • 2
    Except for the first two, others look okay to me. For the downvotes, I would rather prefer SO to cover the info into the UI itself, rather than waiting for users to post comments explaining them. Commented Jul 24, 2018 at 9:32
  • 3
    Grammar criticism: these proposals (like a lot of your writing, actually - I've noticed this before) are scattered with run-on sentences. The "Too much code" example, as written, ought to be three separate sentences separated by periods (or use conjunctions, or semi-colons); separating complete sentences with commas is ungrammatical.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Jul 24, 2018 at 10:40
  • 2
    Substance criticism 1: the "For Question" and "For Answer" comments are vague almost to the point of meaninglessness. The "Lack of research" comment is similarly vague (at no point does it explicitly point out anything wrong with the question), and condescending (it implicitly accuses the asker of not having done any research, or read the site rules, and further insinuates that they are currently incapable of asking a good question - a remarkable stack of insults to deliver without actually pointing out anything that's wrong!), and lacks any clear action that will improve the question.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Jul 24, 2018 at 10:47
  • 2
    Substance criticism 2: I see no circumstance in which the "no repro" comment is useful. If the user posted no code, "check your code" makes no sense. If they did post code, then "ensure you've included an [MCVE]" is unhelpful. I suppose the intent is that the asker reads the page, recognises which part of the MCVE definition the commenter thinks isn't met, and tweaks their code... but a more likely response is "But I HAVE included an MCVE!". Any comment should say what was wrong with the question, not point the asker to a whole page of guidance and expect them to make inferences.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Jul 24, 2018 at 10:56
  • 4
    I made a similar remark about vagueness being unhelpful (and obnoxious) at meta.stackoverflow.com/a/367861/1709587. It's part of the reason I'm extremely suspicious of canned comments in general; the need to be broadly applicable tends to drive them towards being vague, but that in turn drives them towards being useless and condescending. It's probably not impossible to walk that tightrope and construct broadly-applicable comments that are still actually constructive, but I think it's far harder than most of the community gives it credit for and I see failure everywhere, here included.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Jul 24, 2018 at 10:59
  • 1
    @MarkAmery thanks for the thorough feedback. I'm out of ideas. Maybe you could come up with some, or at least write an answer, you clearly have enough here to put into an answer?
    – user3956566
    Commented Jul 24, 2018 at 11:09
  • The GitHub gist link (near "My auto comments are here") is broken— "404. Page not found". Commented Aug 31, 2022 at 11:00
1

In my experience, many users improve their posts if we ask nicely.

So...

Nice Canned Comments.®

For new users, "Welcome to Stack Overflow!" could be prepended to each of these comments.

What have you tried

  • Would you be able to post the code that you have tried so far?
  • What steps have you taken so far in order to try and fix the problem?
  • Could you show us what you have tried so far?

You could Google this

  • What else have you found online to help answer this question?
  • Did you find any other information on this issue, including other Stack Overflow questions/answers?
  • This question might already have an answer on Stack Overflow. You could check out the links under "Related" on the side of this page.

Too broad / Not enough detail

  • This is a very broad question. Would you be able to edit the question and make it more specific?
  • Could you please add some more details, including code you have written?
  • Could you please provide more details about the issue, to help us answer your question? It would be especially helpful if you could post the section of your code that is related to the issue.
  • We will need more details about the problem in order to help answer your question. For example, what is the section of code that produces this error? Also, what is the specific error message?

Code-only answer

  • Would you be able to include an explanation of this code?
  • Can you edit your question to add a description of what this code is and how it works?

Link-only answer

  • It's important to include all the necessary information in your answer, and to quote from the linked page in case the link stops working.
  • You should quote the relevant excerpt from the linked page, because the link might be taken down at some point.
  • It's important to quote the relevant parts of the linked page. You never know when that page might disappear...

Belongs on another Stack Exchange site


As an extra feature, a Bad Question™ or Bad Answer™ would not be posted until the user receives a Nice Canned Comment® and clarifies or fixes the post.

By improving question quality upfront, everyone would be happier -- and our users, especially new ones, wouldn't get slapped with so many (unwelcoming!) downvotes when they walk in our door.

4
  • 1
    In my experience, many users improve their posts if we ask nicely. I like this. Very positive. Thank you for taking the time to write this up.
    – user3956566
    Commented Aug 1, 2018 at 2:30
  • 1
    Obligatory "don't prematurely link to other sites in comments because most users will just crosspost their question verbatim resulting in it getting closed a second time if it doesn't meet all the site rules and creating more work for both communities"
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Aug 1, 2018 at 6:36
  • 1
    Other than that, I like all the rest of the examples.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Aug 1, 2018 at 6:37
  • Yes, these with the use of questions and conditionals are much better than using the imperative or rhetorical questions, I think. They should leave a way out, e.g. to say 'no'. Though the ones starting with "Could you please" could be considered hidden imperatives (sandwiched). Commented Aug 31, 2022 at 10:54

You must log in to answer this question.