76

Please can we get a 4th pre-canned flag decline reason added to the options when declining flags. Something like:

Don't use custom moderator flags for raising issues that are covered by the existing default flags.

(Perhaps there's a better way to express this?).

Rationale:

It used to be perfectly OKnot too terrible to raise custom flags like:

  • "vv low quality"
  • "super-duper-extra low quality"
  • "It's not very clear what's being asked here"

instead of using the default "very low quality"/"unclear what you're asking" flags because they all ended up in front of moderators anyway. These days more and more flags in these categories end up being handled entirely by the community without actual moderator involvement. Thus by the time we see the flag the problem is long-since resolved, but (by design and necessity to prevent abuses) the custom flag doesn't get cleared and is essentially just noise by the time it is seen.

I end up typing out a lot of very similar responses to these, but really it ought to be one clear and helpful message.

7
  • 15
    Seems to be a no-brainer if the goal to educate users on how to correctly use flags. The most common canned reason "... no evidence to support it" seems to be confusing in these cases. Commented Jan 23, 2015 at 11:03
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    @psubsee2003 it's tempting to use 'should only be used to make moderators aware of content that requires their intervention' which is more appropriate than no evidence, but it requires several leaps of intuition to figure out why from the user perspective and in reality would not really act as the learning point it should. Commented Jan 23, 2015 at 11:05
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    I currently keep a notepad file open where I can just copy & paste these types of messages. This would save that extra step.
    – Taryn Mod
    Commented Jan 23, 2015 at 12:25
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    Is it documented for new users anywhere that close flags, VLQ flags, etc. are handled by the community and not moderators? I think I only know that from reading questions like this on Meta (and gaining moderation privs myself), and I remember as a new user being confused by the different effects my flags seemed to have. It'd be good to know up front what happens when you push the various shiny buttons. Commented Jan 23, 2015 at 20:04
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    @Christian Conkle: At this point it really ought to be stated somewhere that it can be assumed flags are handled by the community in most cases, and that the only ones we see right away are spam/offensive, comment, and the obvious "needs moderator attention" flags. In fact, that last category alone should be reason enough to make such an assumption.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Jan 24, 2015 at 2:50
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    @bluefeet - I have too many different devices for that to be efficient. I did consider asking for it to be per site (or per mod?) configurable, in the same way the per site close reasons work currently, but that's a much bigger ask. Commented Jan 24, 2015 at 2:51
  • 5
    As user , front end of flag interface is not overly intuitive. Lots of room in the popup for some better details and my guess is that would cut down some of the traffic for admins
    – charlietfl
    Commented Jan 24, 2015 at 18:29

2 Answers 2

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Tricky to do this in a way that won't be utterly confusing to flaggers, especially those who may not be very familiar with the flagging system.

But, here's what we're gonna try:

Using standard flags helps us prioritize problems and resolve them faster. Please familiarize yourself with the list of standard flags: see What is Flagging?

Critically, this links to the help center topic about flagging, which should help to compensate for the lack of specificity in this decline reason. Please reserve this decline for situations where the flagger could have actually chosen an existing flag based on the information shown in that document!

(IOW, don't use it to decline flags from users who can't flag for closure when there's a matching close flag; they won't see it. Don't use it to decline flags on old questions or upvoted questions in deference to the now-unavailable VLQ flag. You may wish to decline for other reasons, but this particular option isn't appropriate.)

Thanks to Michael Stum for adding this!

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  • 1
    Who can't see a matching close flag? Can the ui know that? Commented Jul 19, 2016 at 18:34
  • 1
    Under 50 rep can't flag for closure.
    – Shog9
    Commented Jul 19, 2016 at 18:35
  • That's kinda weird not being aligned with flagging elsewhere given that "other" ought to be last resort. And really hard to tell from overlay or /admin if that's the cause. Commented Jul 19, 2016 at 18:41
  • So don't be too enthusiastic about using this decline reason then, @Flexo. We added it because - let's face it - there are lots of people who use "other" for things that we know good and well they know are better handled via standard flags; we know this because they also use the standard flags; they're trying to cut in line, or to get extra priority for their pet peeves, and instead they bog down the mod queue and everything gets handled more slowly. You've learned to recognize these cases, and you've gotten accustom to declining them... But if you're not sure, assume good faith.
    – Shog9
    Commented Jul 19, 2016 at 18:59
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    I really think the flag wording could use some improvement. I'm familiar with both sides of flagging and I find “standard flags” clear only because I see the motivation here. Furthermore the text doesn't make the connection between the declining and the recommendation to use non-custom flags. How about this? “Declined — please use pre-defined flags (flags where you don't enter additional text) as these can be resolved faster and with less effort” Commented Jul 19, 2016 at 21:45
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Actually, it was never really OK to use custom flags in lieu of existing flags unless you had a very, very good reason to do so (e.g. old question that will never receive views, before close/reopen queues were a thing), because using custom flags interferes with sorting and filtering flags by type, for one thing. Of course, we have a much more compelling reason to discourage this now.

Anyway, as an alternative to simply a brand new flag option, I propose splitting the existing

flags should only be used to make moderators aware of content that requires their intervention

option into

moderator flags should not be used to escalate issues that can otherwise be handled by the community through the standard flags

(↑ just own my way of wording what's proposed above, I prefer "escalating" because you're taking an issue and raising it on unnecessarily high alert)

and

this is not an appropriate use of flags

where the latter specifically refers to anything that isn't related to moderation whatsoever, like

urgent plz halp

or

Please answer.

or

Just wanted to say hi :))))

or

jkjl;jk;kljljkjklk;ljlkjk;jllkj;kjl;k;

or

I need to use the SQL aggregate function to get all the data from the database. Waiting for your valuable respond...

or

Hi moderator, kindly upvote my answers bcoz they are good...

or

java, jsf, spring

or

it needs moderator ♦ attention

or

Something not quite right? Let us know about it, and please provide relevant links if possible.

or

Something not quite right? Let us know about it, and please provide me with the solution.

(↑ actually a real flag from a couple of days ago)

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    The urge to flag this post with one of those quoted reasons is just so tempting.
    – Servy
    Commented Jan 23, 2015 at 15:50
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    If we add this is not an appropriate use of flags then I feel that I'll no longer be able to respond to the nonsense shfshefads flags with declined - kshhfksdhnfkad.
    – Taryn Mod
    Commented Jan 23, 2015 at 15:51
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    @bluefeet: youtube.com/watch?v=nG36mYN6Aos
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Jan 23, 2015 at 15:56
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    What on earth was the last two flaggers thinking??? I mean, you got a bit of rep so you can flag, and you use it to troll the moderators? Commented Jan 23, 2015 at 17:19
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    @BradleyDotNET: I doubt trolling was part of the equation. Some people seem to get stage fright when confronted with a large empty textbox.
    – Michael Myers Mod
    Commented Jan 23, 2015 at 17:31
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    @bluefeet that's a wholly inappropriate response to such a flag. I'm disappointed in you. You should have said, declined - wohbahegvvv, clearly.
    – Andrew Barber Mod
    Commented Jan 23, 2015 at 19:44
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    @AndrewBarber declined - blah...blah...blah or declined - i don't care
    – Taryn Mod
    Commented Jan 23, 2015 at 19:46
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    @BradleyDotNET Just know, that these are just a sample of the beautiful flags we get every single day.
    – Taryn Mod
    Commented Jan 23, 2015 at 19:47
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    @bluefeet That makes me feel a lot better about the flags I raise, but sorry for you :( Commented Jan 23, 2015 at 19:54
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    Similar situation to the last flag: I saw a post where the user had just copied/pasted the guidelines for asking a question into the box (along with an actual title). I was tempted to write an answer with the guidelines for writing an answer.
    – k_g
    Commented Jan 23, 2015 at 23:54
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    Yeah, the suggestion is good, but as @BenVoigt said, the proposed wording is awful. At a minimum, I'd suggest replacing "moderator" with "custom", "write-in" or "'other'", and "existing" with "standard". But it really needs a full rewrite, preferably done while logged in as a low-rep user, with the flag dialog open. (And, of course, the elephant in the room is that most new users don't really know how to view their flag history anyway, or even that they can or should.) Commented Jan 24, 2015 at 22:13
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    @BoltClock: The problem is that, to someone who's not intimately familiar with the inner workings of the SE flagging back-end (which, AFAIK, are not properly documented in any one place; they can only be learned by being a mod, or by digging for scattered bits of info on meta and sorting out the obsolete parts), it's not clear that the handling of "other" flags is so fundamentally different from the standard ones. Indeed, the difference used to be much smaller, back when only 10k users and mods could handle NAA/VLQ flags, but the flagging UI still looks exactly the same as it did back then. Commented Jan 26, 2015 at 10:53
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    @BoltClock: tl;dr: It's probably not obvious to most users that all flags aren't "moderator flags". Either the flagging UI needs to be changed to make that clearer, or we need to stick to the terminology the UI currently uses, which, for write-in flags, is "other". Commented Jan 26, 2015 at 10:55
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    @bluefeet: They probably aren't seeing it, since finding it is like a puzzle straight out of old 1980s adventure games. ("First flag a post. When you next visit your user profile, an extra number has appeared among the other random statistics. That number is a link. Click it.") In such cases, it might be best to send the user a private message or super-ping them on chat, since, AFAIK, users do get notified of those. At least, it's likely to be more productive (if also a bit more work) than just repeatedly declining their flags with messages they'll never see. Commented Jan 26, 2015 at 11:11
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    Please! Please! Somewhere, start a 'Best of Mod Flags' that gets updated with the best(funniest/most inappropriate) custom flags raised. Anything to help me put of learning PHP, and give us all a bit of a giggle.
    – JamesENL
    Commented Mar 18, 2015 at 8:25

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