24

Just stumbled across some in this question.

Looking myself, there's also a lonely who left the crowd.

Can we please exterminate them?

(The tags are very vague and meta, and they just cry out for it.
1500 Questions all together, and they are all over the place.)

13
  • 2
    1,042 tagged questions. That's going to take awhile. What's the harm in just leaving it?
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Nov 7, 2014 at 4:33
  • 5
    Actually 1511, just looked. And there is absolutely no focus/purpose to them, so outright deletion of the tag would be best. (The harm is that people will tag with it, thinking they got an approprite tag, and not go looking for one.) Commented Nov 7, 2014 at 4:37
  • 6
    Only 1511 edits needed. You're going to need an army. Seriously, isn't there some better use of people's time?
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Nov 7, 2014 at 4:43
  • 2
    What would happen to a question that had just one tag and that tag was deleted like the OP suggests?
    – Jay Riggs
    Commented Nov 7, 2014 at 6:43
  • 30
    @RobertHarvey Why delete any tag with that kind of thinking? Commented Nov 7, 2014 at 6:52
  • 10
    @RobertHarvey "isn't there some better use of peoples time?" - that's why this is a burninate request, not a manual retag request. I'd recommend burnination and blacklisting.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Nov 7, 2014 at 11:17
  • 2
    Kill it with fire (see what I did there? :-)).
    – AStopher
    Commented Nov 7, 2014 at 16:57
  • 1
    I think there are probably tons of tags like this. If I look at tags for questions I've responded to, I see all kinds of goofy tags, like data. If that's not generic, I don't know what is. I think we just have to hope folks end up with appropriate tags as well.
    – Andrew
    Commented Nov 7, 2014 at 17:05
  • @cybermonkey ... yeah, I see. Commented Nov 7, 2014 at 18:31
  • 1
    @l4mpi: All burninate requests are manual retags. There aren't any tools that anyone has (including moderators) that can make a tag magically disappear. SE has such tools, but observe how many burninate requests were actually handled by SE in the last six months (hint: I can count them on one hand, and have several fingers left over).
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Nov 8, 2014 at 0:08
  • 1
    @l4mpi: Blacklisting is dev-only as well, and is reserved only for the most egregious tags.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Nov 8, 2014 at 0:10
  • @ChrisHayes: See my two comments above.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Nov 8, 2014 at 0:15
  • 2
    @RobertHarvey Sounds like SE should get that interface built and expose it to mods (more than one mod required to destroy a popular tag, of course).
    – dfeuer
    Commented Nov 10, 2014 at 4:16

2 Answers 2

18

Looking at the questions, it seems like "Helper" actually is the correct terminology for . (According to comments, a new tag has been created and added to the intersection of and . So that's dealt with.)

And all (that I saw) of the rest came from someone typing a sentence help me frob blah pls into keywords, and the system suggesting "helpers" as the closest match to "help".

A couple of the questions should be using instead, because they discussed parsing/viewing/browsing help files. Again, someone probably typed "help" in the tags and it expanded, although this time they actually did mean it as a keyword not a sentence.

It seems like "help" ought to be a blacklisted tag, not a missing tag. Because having it expand to any suggestion, or otherwise, leads consistently to wrong outcomes.

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  • 9
    in the context of that meteor tag, it would be preferable to refer it as meteor-helper
    – gnat
    Commented Nov 7, 2014 at 13:52
  • @gnat: Why, if Meteor is the only environment using the word "helper"? It doesn't solve anything, as long as throw-a-sentence-in-tags-including-help gets auto-expanded to anything. Instead of moving the expansion target, we need to stop the expansion altogether.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Nov 7, 2014 at 13:54
  • 1
    if users will be blocked from using tag helper at all, this would be indeed so. I mentioned rename only for the case if blacklisting won't happen
    – gnat
    Commented Nov 7, 2014 at 14:05
  • 1
    "helper" isn't self-descriptive enough to be allowed. There are many things that use "helper", wizards and the like, which aren't related in any way.
    – Braiam
    Commented Nov 7, 2014 at 14:25
  • 2
    @gnat: It's not the tag helper (or helpers) that needs to be blocked, it's the suggestion helper when the user types "please help me"
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Nov 7, 2014 at 14:28
  • Perhaps the helper should be changed to meteor-helper instead.
    – AStopher
    Commented Nov 7, 2014 at 16:58
  • 2
    @cybermonkey: gnat already said that. Which is fine, if helper is actually ambiguous. Based on the list of questions, though, it seems like there's helper in the context of meteor, and there's mistagged, probably by the suggestion mechanism. No ambiguity.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Nov 7, 2014 at 17:07
  • 1
    The suggestion mechanism is still nothing more than a suggestion mechanism, right? Meaning that people still need to manually accept tags? If that's the case, renaming to meteor-helper would help a lot, I'd think, since I would expect even people who don't understand the tag system to realize that "help me frob my foobars" has nothing to do with anything called "Meteor". Commented Nov 7, 2014 at 17:18
  • 1
    @KyleStrand: It won't help at all. Sure, it will keep "help me" in the tags from becoming helpers, but it just moves the problem around. Creating a bunch of invalid helpfile tags instead is not a solution to the issue we have with helpers. Remember that suggestions get auto-accepted as you keep typing.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Nov 7, 2014 at 17:23
  • 3
    So, to summarize: You found redeeming value for helper in the context of meteor. Well, I'll accept that, but that's only 15 questions in both tags together, so less than 1%. (Retagged all to meteor-helper as suggested (Still needs a tag-wiki), because the tag is not descriptive enough and they were crowded out.) Regarding banning help and autocompletion of it to something else, be my guest. Commented Nov 7, 2014 at 17:53
  • 1
    @BenVoigt meteor isn't the only technology to use this name. MVC in .NET does, too, and it's an equally useless name there.
    – jpmc26
    Commented Nov 7, 2014 at 18:21
  • 2
    And CakePHP! And Ruby on Rails! And my AX! Commented Nov 7, 2014 at 18:22
  • @jpmc26: I know nothing about meteor, but after looking at code snippets in questions tagged helpers, meteor-helper seems to be on an equal level to an interface or a listener in other platforms. So while in other places it may be useless, it seems like a bigger thing in meteor. Now that those are retagged, is there anything left that isn't a mistag?
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Nov 7, 2014 at 18:31
  • @BenVoigt I'm sorry, I'm still not quite clear on what you're saying. What, exactly, is going to cause the creation of "a bunch of invalid helpfile tags"? Are you just saying that since "helpfile" is closer to "help" than "meteor-helper" is, changing the helper tag to meteor-helper would cause helpfile to be suggested where currently helper is suggested? Commented Nov 7, 2014 at 18:36
  • 1
    @KyleStrand: Yes. Cleaning up this tag, without also addressing the autocompletion help->(whatever), is just going to perpetuate the problem.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Nov 7, 2014 at 18:39
10

For those pointing out that "helper" is a correct terminology in some frameworks, templating libraries, etc., I acknowledge that, but I doubt the value in an actual tag devoted to this particular mechanism. It makes more sense for it to be tagged by the framework/library, where it will garner some attention. The fact it's related to whatever the framework/library calls a "helper" doesn't seem significant enough to warrant a full tag. Additionally, the name is so utterly nondescriptive that it could mean virtually anything depending on the framework/library, and thus adds almost zero value to the question as a tag.

While I'm usually cautious about the following argument against tags, I think it actually makes sense given how vague the name is. You can't be a "helper" expert because "helper" is so ill defined. Certainly, this also means that the tag can't stand on its own; it would need additional tags, making its value even more dubious.

I'm all for burnination.

5
  • You could say the same for interface or delegate or pointer. They apply to a lot of different frameworks. Yet they serve mostly the same function across the gamut, and so experience from one can translate to the others. Perhaps that isn't true of frameworks using helpers.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Nov 7, 2014 at 18:34
  • 1
    Help the helper helpers help you use helpers? Ugh. That's one of those words that starts to look weird/stupid when you look at it too much. Commented Nov 7, 2014 at 18:34
  • 3
    @BenVoigt, interface and pointer mean the same thing no matter what language you use them in - they come with differing implementation but the same conceptual background. With helpers this is not the case. The only common ground behind things tagged helper is their auxiliary nature. Commented Nov 8, 2014 at 20:49
  • 1
    Tags are to attract people to questions who might have domain knowledge to help answer them. The word 'helper' doesn't tell anybody if they know enough to solve the question, but the name of a language and framework being used (even if 'helper' is the specific name of a module or library) definitely do. For more specifics, descriptive question names can be used. Commented Nov 8, 2014 at 21:06
  • @Noamyoungerm, interface has an extremely vague name. It could, on its face, refer to interfaces as they exist in Java, or to human-computer interfaces, or to APIs, or to ABIs, or any number of other things.
    – dfeuer
    Commented Nov 10, 2014 at 4:23

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