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I recently was audited for close votes and failed for this question.

In my opinion, this is a bad question since it shows no effort in solving the problem. It is nothing more then asking someone else to do the work.

Am I wrong? Why did this question receive so many upvotes?

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  • possible duplicate of What is the reasoning behind this close review audit?
    – nobody
    Commented May 15, 2014 at 16:15
  • @AndrewMedico No, not quite... I know how the question was chosen - I just want to make sure whether the mistake is on my side, or not! The question is quite specific to the given post. Commented May 15, 2014 at 16:17
  • 1
    @AlexanderVogt Clearly when looking at the question it met the criteria for being a "good question" audit. What else do you expect to be told. People upvoted a bad question when they should have downvoted it. Add your downvote and move on.
    – Servy
    Commented May 15, 2014 at 16:18

1 Answer 1

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The reason we ask for effort is to ward off help vampires, not to be the math teacher who says "you didn't show your work." We're trying to discourage the askers that will suck life out of us, not the ones simply asking for a sensible technique.

If a person can ask a clearly-worded question that doesn't require a book chapter to answer, and it is apparent that the asker knows what they are talking about and will understand the answer that you give them, then no further effort needs to be demonstrated.

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    And yet questions should demonstrate some research effort. This question demonstrates none at all. That's certainly meets the criteria for downvoting, not upvoting.
    – Servy
    Commented May 15, 2014 at 17:17
  • @Servy: I could see how that question would be widely useful to R programmers, though. The whole point of Stack Overflow is to collate useful programming knowledge, not turn every question into a troubleshooting exercise by asking "what have you tried?"
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented May 15, 2014 at 17:18
  • 2
    And yet Googling the title of this question results in a page with higher quality answers than the SO question, even though the SO question is one higher on the list. People using search terms for that question are being directed away from a higher quality resource. That's not helpful.
    – Servy
    Commented May 15, 2014 at 17:24
  • There is that. I certainly think you can have one of these questions on Stack Overflow, and close related ones as dupes.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented May 15, 2014 at 17:26
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    Worth noting: the R community does this a lot with questions, upvoting them where other community members might downvote. They would probably argue that their tag favors collections of useful techniques over highly-localized troubleshooting questions. I would certainly argue that the R tag gets far less of the "halp, it doesn't work" type of questions than, say, the PHP or Android tags get. It's those kinds of questions that we should be genuinely concerned about.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented May 15, 2014 at 17:28
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    1) Even doing that, you're still drawing attention away from a better resource that already exists 2) It takes a lot of work to close dupes. Finding the right dupe to close is very time consuming on the community. 3) Because of #2, people don't do it, it's easier to just write a new mediocre answer than find the right duplicate and get 4 other people to vote with you, during which time 3 other people post other mediocre answers. 4) Because of #3, there are a ton of duplicates not closed a duplicates cluttering search, making the canonical harder to find, exacerbating every single problem.
    – Servy
    Commented May 15, 2014 at 17:30
  • All well and good, but "halp, my codes don't work" is the larger problem.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented May 15, 2014 at 17:31
  • They're both problems and they should both be addressed. It's not a choice of allowing one or the other.
    – Servy
    Commented May 15, 2014 at 17:31
  • True, but sometimes you have to pick your battles. Having been a mod for quite some time now, I can tell you that the R question doesn't even reach threshold for me. icanhazcodez questions do far less damage than "halp, my codes don't work."
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented May 15, 2014 at 17:32
  • If you want to say, "This is a bad question, but it's just not worth the time and effort to try and actively find and remove them all" that's one thing, but your answer is saying that it's actually a good question, worth welcoming. I disagree. Not actively hunting it to get rid of it doesn't mean you need to encourage it when you come across it, or encourage others to welcome the questions when they come across them. Downvoting the post takes no more effort than upvoting it, after all.
    – Servy
    Commented May 15, 2014 at 17:34
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    I just don't see how the question is harmful to the site, that's all. Certainly not like "halp, my codez don't work." For reference, have a look at my own icanhazcodez question: stackoverflow.com/questions/11660127
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented May 15, 2014 at 17:35
  • I have already explained the problems with this post. You even agreed with my reasoning. "halp, my codez don't work." questions simply drain whatever time of the regulars that read the question and then never get found again from Google. That's actually less harmful that drawing attention away from a quality resource.
    – Servy
    Commented May 15, 2014 at 17:37
  • Could the answer be made better? If the post is inferior to others on the Internet, then maybe we should improve it.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented May 15, 2014 at 17:39
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    How is the site being helpful if it is simply replicating content already found elsewhere. I only see value there if there aren't already quality solutions to a given problem, or if they're not particularly discoverable, neither of which is the case here. Removing this question actually does just as much good as improving it to be as good as the other resource.
    – Servy
    Commented May 15, 2014 at 17:41
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    I'm not all that concerned that an answer exists somewhere else on the Internet. As a moderator, that's not my concern at all, unless someone is plagiarizing. I certainly don't Google every question I see to find out if the information is already duplicated elsewhere, unless the person is clearly asking a General Reference question that is trivially answerable via a canonical resource. That is most certainly a question that lacks adequate research.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented May 15, 2014 at 17:42

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