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It's quite clear by now, I am not any longer afraid to ask for it officially; all recent highly visited and discussed posts that the community demands a new close reason.

New, because it has never actually been a close reason ( not to confuse with minimal understanding and not a real question )

If any question on SO is possibly a duplicate OR is researchable within 5 minutes spent on google OR answerable within a minute why is "not enough effort" not a close reason?

It would greatly reduce both:

  • the amount of duplicate questions as people(answerers) can't be bothered to find a duplicate while there are 8K+ questions asked per day, that's 5.5 questions per minute, that's 25+ people constantly looking at the questions trying to match duplicates...it's sometimes easier to answer than to find a duplicate... but say NO to those. Close them as "not enough effort"...

  • noob questions which are more likely easier to close than to answer as most of the questions lead to a "OK, thanks for your answer but I don't understand nothing, can you explain? Yours faithfully, help-vampire". Don't bother with those, close asap and tell the asker he has not put enough effort - that's a motivation! not a CTRL+C/CTRL+V...

Examples; tons of those - within a day frame in a not very popular tag... just sad.

TL;DR

Two questions to conclude:

Why does Stack Exchange refuse to add/implement "Not enough effort" as a close reason?

What are the top 5 cons to support the refusal?

UPDATE:

Please re-read everything changing "Not enough effort" to "Absolutely no effort"

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  • 27
    That's what downvotes are for, in my opinion. The question can be perfectly on-topic yet not show any effort -> downvote. Commented May 7, 2014 at 15:55
  • 14
    @MartijnPieters So the question is do we want these questions answered. By asserting that it shouldn't be a close reason you're saying that these questions should be answered, even if they are downvoted.
    – Servy
    Commented May 7, 2014 at 15:56
  • 11
    And I object to the Community demands claim here. Strongly. That's what we have feature request / discussion posts for, we vote, not demand. Commented May 7, 2014 at 15:56
  • 21
    I foresee way too much abuse of a "Not Enough Effort" close reason to make this a valid reason. Too many people used the minimal understanding close reason for this, it was heavily abused and as a result removed.
    – Taryn Mod
    Commented May 7, 2014 at 15:56
  • 5
    You demand "the top 5 cons" but don't give the top 5 pros? Rather one-sided, don't you think?
    – Kevin
    Commented May 7, 2014 at 15:57
  • 4
    @Servy: I wouldn't necessarily answer such questions, but sometimes they can deserve an answer anyway. And 'not enough effort' is very subjective. What is easy for you or me is not easy for someone else; they can get stuck by not even knowing the terminology to look for. Commented May 7, 2014 at 15:57
  • 4
    @bluefeet Well, one thing to consider there is that a lot of these questions are being closed anyway, it's just that some other close reason is being abused to close these questions despite the fact that it doesn't apply. Adding this close reason simply means that those questions will have an applicable close reason.
    – Servy
    Commented May 7, 2014 at 15:58
  • 11
    IMO downvotes by "good" voters have a hard time outweighing upvotes from "bad" voters (and people tending to not downvote to be nice or whatever tips this heavily in the favour of upvoters). Close votes don't have this problem. Commented May 7, 2014 at 15:58
  • 1
    Your post also fails to refer to Should Stack Overflow be awarding "A"s for Effort?, which is really applicable here. Commented May 7, 2014 at 15:59
  • 9
    @MartijnPieters I agree, "not enough effort" is probably a bit too subjective - how about "absolutely no effort"? Commented May 7, 2014 at 15:59
  • 1
    Also, I agree with @Servy,SE lacks either "Absolutely no effort shown" or "not enough effort" and because of that other close reasons are being abused and the "explanation note" even after a post gets closed is usually irrelevant to the actual reason people voted to close a question..
    – user2140173
    Commented May 7, 2014 at 16:03
  • 1
    @mehow: Voting for answers and questions is different. I am not sure what argument you are making there. We can already close questions that are unclear; including unclear what help is needed (if they didn't show the effort required to tell us what they are stuck on specifically). Commented May 7, 2014 at 16:04
  • 1
    @mehow: So, you have a good community around the tag (same for Python). What is the problem then; these posts do get cleaned up! Why yet another close reason where the existing tools clearly are working for you? Commented May 7, 2014 at 16:21
  • 1
    Realistically, @Dukeling, folks who've been around for a while have always known that closing is driven by need - the close reasons are for the benefit of new users (both those reading the closed questions and those just gaining close privileges). Terrible questions get closed for some reason even if that reason wouldn't pass a lawyer's scrutiny. We do have to be careful to not train overly rule-oriented users to close things that are actually useful though.
    – Shog9
    Commented May 7, 2014 at 16:58
  • 1
    @servy - so we should stamp out close-reason abuse. I've been flagging a lot of those where the stated reason is clearly inapplicable to the question - feel free to join in. Commented May 8, 2014 at 1:51

2 Answers 2

36

It wouldn't reduce anything. It's shutting the barn door after the horses have bolted - the question has already been asked. Asking five trusted members to spend time reviewing and voting on it isn't a particularly great way of reducing the cost these questions impose on the site.

Worse, what if the question has already been answered? What if it's been answered well? Who are we really punishing now, the lazy OP (who is likely long gone and never cared in the first place), or the poor sap who actually did invest effort into it?

Combine these two factors, and you get an even more perverse outcome: lazy questions with good answers become more likely to be closed, because folks are actually reading them! The flood of unanswerable / duplicate / boring cruft that creates so many problems continues to be ignored, because... Well, who cares?

And that's how it should be. These questions should be ignored, abandoned, and eventually culled. Demanding that we invest more effort to handle questions where none was invested is a recipe for even more frustration. You can't hold back the ocean with your hands.

See also: Should Stack Overflow (and Stack Exchange in general) be awarding "A"s for Effort?

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  • 1
    Soo... Don't cast your close votes, just cast the questions to the wind?
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented May 7, 2014 at 16:06
  • 2
    Downvoting takes like 2 seconds. Downvote and walk away.
    – Shog9
    Commented May 7, 2014 at 16:06
  • 3
    @RobertHarvey: downvotes help there; the post is removed from the homepage and gets less attention. Automatically. Hey, goal achieved! Commented May 7, 2014 at 16:07
  • 11
    Of course, this doesn't do anything about rep-whoring answerers, which is what the community has been spending most of their focus on the last few days.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented May 7, 2014 at 16:08
  • 12
    @MartijnPieters Except for all of the brand new programmers who aren't qualified to answer the high quality questions who love to upvote these "google my own title for me" questions, or all of the people who know it's a bad question, and even comment that it's a bad question, but won't downvote because, "it might hurt people's feelings" or "they should be given time to fix the post first". The reality is that so many of these questions don't get downvoted (or at least they get an unfair share of upvotes along with them) and they are frequently answered (usually with poor, 1-2 line answers).
    – Servy
    Commented May 7, 2014 at 16:08
  • 9
    I'd love to believe that downvoting these questions solves all our quality problems, but I'm not sure I'm convinced of that.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented May 7, 2014 at 16:09
  • @Servy: So the OP got what they deserved? Over time, if those posts don't help people, they'll get downvoted anyway. Commented May 7, 2014 at 16:12
  • 11
    @MartijnPieters But they don't. That's the problem. People know that they're low quality. People complain about them, but people don't actually downvote them (enough). Questions like these have a reasonably high chance of getting at least some upvotes, and they have quite high odds of collecting answers (although very low odds of collecting very good answers). The site has built in the tools to handle these questions but the community is not effectively utilizing those tools, and so these poor quality questions are causing a lot of problems.
    – Servy
    Commented May 7, 2014 at 16:15
  • 1
    @Servy: None of the posts Me how links to have a net positive score here. I see plenty of downvoting going on in the section of Stack Overflow I frequent. If people don't downvote enough, they won't vote to close enough either. If you feel the community is not doing a good enough job to use the tools, how are more tools (another close reason) going to help? Commented May 7, 2014 at 16:18
  • Broken window theory? Not closing and deleting no effort questions that may get good answers encourage no effort questions that are much, much worse and have "valid" reason to be closed, not to mention encourage more no effort questions that may get good answers, where-as the people asking them could've asked a good question in the first place, but didn't know it's expected that they do this. Commented May 7, 2014 at 16:18
  • 2
    @Dukeling: But these kinds of posts do get auto-deleted. They get cleaned up. I find it quite funny how everyone is complaining that we didn't have these kinds of questions in the olden days, forgetting tat we did get these questions all the time but that they have been auto-deleted since and thus are no longer visible! Commented May 7, 2014 at 16:19
  • 3
    @MartijnPieters The system doesn't delete open answered questions (regardless of score). And just because we remove (fix?) a broken window eventually doesn't mean we don't have that broken window while its not removed. Commented May 7, 2014 at 16:21
  • 4
    @Servy: See, now we are talking. Perhaps Shog's idea to give Gold badge users more powerful close votes has merit there. Commented May 7, 2014 at 16:25
  • 9
    so is it better for site to allow questions with -6 votes and 4 answers... What's the point of that? I am the only one who cast a close vote... why is that? Maybe it is a good and on topic question... Maybe because there is currently no matching close reason such as "Absolutely no effort!" ... i mean how is the linked Q even a programmatic question.
    – user2140173
    Commented May 8, 2014 at 7:05
  • 1
    Yeah, that question is crap.
    – Shog9
    Commented May 8, 2014 at 7:10
9

I found this question, because I wanted to ask the same question. I actually think it should be an excellent close reason. StackOverflow is meant for professionals and enthusiasts, both of whom should show some effort when solving a problem.

Also, a question like that is very unlikely to help future visitors. If the answer is readily and abundantly available, then an extra question isn't going to add much value. Either the future OP will already find one of the existing answers, or they will not try and therefore not find this question either.

As for rep-whoring, a closed question doesn't accept new answers, and I even think that a question with a couple of close votes already is less likely to be answered, because it is less visible, and maybe there is a psychological barrier (close voting is a stronger signal than downvoting).

I think a bad question that did show research effort can be improved. Maybe the question was unclear or some relevant information was missing. This is solvable. A question without research effort is useless. Once the person asking it starts doing the research that they should have done before, they will probably find the answer as well.

So for various reasons I would like to have this close reason as a way to clean-up these questions.

But until such a close reason exists, just downvote the question, and/or check if any of the other reasons apply as well.

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