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As we know, software changes. Perfectly good, accepted and up voted answers can become obsolete over time.

Earlier today a user left a comment on one of my older answers pointing out that it is now obsolete. That's just fine. It's a good comment.

But, based on the timestamp, it appears the user also down voted my answer.

It seems inappropriate to down vote a formerly good answer just because a year or more later, due to changing software, the answer is no longer a correct answer.

Is there a policy on this? I don't care about the -2, just curious.

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    People can downvote as they wish. If the answer is outdated, then it may not be helpful any longer which would be why it's receiving downvotes. There is no "policy" in place that would prevent this type of voting.
    – Taryn Mod
    Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 19:29
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    Also, as an addition to what bluefeet said: you could always fix the answer and make it correct again.
    – hichris123
    Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 19:31
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    @bluefeet Given that, people could spend all of their votes down voting now obsolete answers every day.
    – rmaddy
    Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 19:31
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    @rmaddy Yes and that is their right to vote that way. You can chose to vote however you want.
    – Taryn Mod
    Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 19:32
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    @hichris123 I answer a lot of questions. I can't spend all of my time reviewing them all each time there is a software update or API change.
    – rmaddy
    Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 19:32
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    @rmaddy That's reasonable, although you could look at a downvote as a signal that something may be off with that specific answer. But then if your answer is out of date and no longer applies to the question, a downvote seems perfectly justified and the system's working as intended.
    – Adam Lear StaffMod
    Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 19:35
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    Re. "I can't spend all of my time reviewing them all each time there is a software update or API change." That's the great thing about having a community that can review answers for you. If you don't have time to update an obsolete answer, somebody from the community can downvote it and write their own. Saves you time and gives visitors the most up-to-date information: a win-win situation! Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 19:46
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    Questions about obsolete software are rarely actually obsolete. There are legacy systems all over the place that people still have to support Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 19:56
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    @AnnaLear In isolated cases it's no big deal and as you say, older, obsolete answers get pushed down. But taken to extremes, if every now-obsolete answer got a bunch of down votes because it is no longer the best answer, high rep users could be turned into low rep users. You end up punishing people for posting good answers that are tied to APIs and software that change often.
    – rmaddy
    Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 20:03
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    @bluefeet, people keep saying "you vote as you wish" (and indeed you can't control it practically), but there are guidelines, that some don't seem to follow.
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 20:07
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    @Bruno The tooltip over downvote shows "this answer is not useful" - an obsolete answer is probably not useful. And those are "guidelines" not an absolute for voting.
    – Taryn Mod
    Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 20:09
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    @bluefeet, that's exactly the problem. There's nothing to distinguish a vote for something that's outright wrong, and something that's not quite right with the version that I am using. Mixing the two signals together means that we're effectively treating bad content the same way as content that's correct but not applicable to what the voter is using. This is a terrible idea. This is why the wording of "this answer is not useful" causes so many problems: is it generally not useful, is it not useful for me today, is it not useful for someone using that version?
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 20:28
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    @rmaddy: easy: don't take downvotes personally. 9 times out of 10 the downvote is justified. I appreciate downvotes on older answers, especially when feedback is included or other answers have appeared that show up mine to be outdated. That way I don't have to police every one of those old answers to keep them up to date. That said, I also check out old answers when they get upvoted, to see what it was that someone found to be interesting. Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 21:17
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    @rmaddy: and if an older answer turns out to be out-of-date for a current version, I add a caveat to the answer and / or update the post to point to better info on the new version, etc. etc. Case study: Celery and Python's logging Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 21:19
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    This feels like a missing feature on SO to me: having the ability to mark questions as potentially obsolete (out of date with the current version). We know that software is constantly changing, and outdated information is as frustrating as answers that only link to external sites (which eventually break, and are thus discouraged). Instead of trying to encode "this may be out of date" into a downvote, how about a simple flag, "deprecated/obsolete/legacy" and/or version compatibility tags/fields. -- here is an example from one of my answers
    – cod3monk3y
    Commented Jul 16, 2014 at 16:41

14 Answers 14

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What someone considers to be an outdated or obsolete answer may not necessarily be outdated for others.

There is a lot of value in keeping track of what the solutions were for past versions of libraries, software, systems, ...

It's not because you're able to run the latest bleeding edge version of the tools you're using that everybody will.

There are such things as legacy systems. Sometimes, you just can't upgrade, or make the choice not to upgrade to prevent other problems (cost, side-effects, ...). (We're all writing today the legacy systems of tomorrow.)

In general, I'd add a second answer and leave a comment or editor's note on the old answer, without downvoting.

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    Yeh, alot of people are stuck using Action Script 2, and there are plenty of answers that are no longer "right" in Action Script 3, but are extremely helpful to those still using AS2 (of course usually the question is tagged version specific). If there is still a practical scenario where the answer applies, and the answer has been commented to indicate this precondition, then it's still a good answer IMO.
    – AaronLS
    Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 21:01
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    Although if you asked an identical question today, not mentioning an AS version, then the AS2-only answer might get downvoted for already being out of date. Or if this isn't the case for AS, certainly there are other technologies where it would be right to downvote answers that work only for some old version. I guess this question ends up being, "if I see an answer that I would normally downvote because it it obsolete, should I refrain from downvoting on the basis that it was correct at the time the question was answered, and so the question implicitly applied only to AS2 at that time". Commented Jul 16, 2014 at 14:35
  • ... to which "yes" is a perfectly reasonable answer, I think, although probably not shared by everyone. The trouble I see with the reasoning in this answer is that one can apply it equally to new questions. But we don't want people giving Windows 3.1 answers to Windows UI programming questions, and when they get downvoted just think to themselves "Idiots! My answer is not outdated for some people" ;-) Extreme example, I know, but eventually any answer on this site might become that outdated. Commented Jul 16, 2014 at 14:41
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    @SteveJessop The important thing is that information be included so that the answer is useful to those to whom it applies, and does not mislead others. To accomplish this, more than anything is to simply ensure the answer has a note of what scenario it is applicable under, and or others who find a previously correct answer which is outdated can add a comment indicating what scenario it was valid under or is no longer valid under "No longer works in jQuery 2.*+".
    – AaronLS
    Commented Jul 16, 2014 at 16:27
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    @SteveJessop, when versions are not specified, I expect the reader to have a look at the time stamp next to the answer. This should be done for any document you read, especially in anything IT-related. (If you read a newspaper that says "War declared; all Europe in turmoil", looking at the fact it's from July 1914 is a very useful piece of information.) Whenever you read an article, a blog or an answer on SO, always check the date (and look for more recent answers if necessary). Perhaps I'm expecting too much from some readers, which may lack basic information gathering skills...
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 16, 2014 at 17:02
  • @rmaddy Moreover there are some software's in which the older versions work better then the latest one's as the latest one (not beta versions or nightly builds) are prone to bugs.In the end the users shift back to the older versions so its not necessary to downvote an older but valid answer.
    – user285oo6
    Commented Jul 17, 2014 at 9:03
  • If you get a lot of downvotes then it probably means most people having the same problem consider your answer to no longer be correct, right? And that's exactly the key: most. This voting system ensures that the result reflects the opinion of the majority at the current time, not the one expressed some time ago. It thus meets the needs of the majority of people seeking answers. I think you already get my point, but I emphasize this again: the majority's opinion is what matters to the majority of answer seekers. People seeking information about something obsolete are the minority. Commented Jul 17, 2014 at 14:23
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    @SergiuParaschiv, I get your point but my main issue with downvoting something outdated is that it's the same signal as when something is wrong. As an answer seeker, it is very important to understand the different between the two outcomes: one may give you valuable insight as to what was or wasn't available before and possibly why the API changed (for example, even if you just want to use the new version), the other tells you that the answer is likely to be incorrect. (In addition, the majority isn't always right, but that's a different problem.)
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 17, 2014 at 15:43
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First, people can vote however they want. We can't (and don't want to) really make a policy saying when to upvote/downvote beyond "don't serial (up/down)vote".

Second, If an answer is no longer correct, a comment is perfectly fine, as you say. After that, though, it's a user's decision whether to downvote the answer. I personally would - voting is meant to push good content to the top, and if content become obsolete, it is no longer good. It should be pushed down below more up-to-date content. This is exactly how the system is supposed to work.

Also, (less for your benefit, more for future readers') please don't try to correlate votes based on timestamps. It sometimes works, but SO is a huge place and things happen. I've been pinned with a giant "you downvoted this because look at the timestamps!" badge before, and it certainly isn't fun. Especially if I didn't.

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    Now, if you could make a good argument for only bleeding-edge solutions being acceptable... There's a huge amount of legacy support, and that needs good resources as well. Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 19:52
  • People can vote however they want indeed, but that's not the recommendation. The help centre clearly says: "When should I vote down? Use your downvotes whenever you encounter an egregiously sloppy, no-effort-expended post, or an answer that is clearly and perhaps dangerously incorrect."
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 20:02
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    I don't quite agree with @Bruno that the help center defines the exact parameters of valid downvotes, but I definitely concur that "votes can be used however one wants short of fraud" is a harmful idea and is being disseminated a little too widely. Votes on these sites do have an intended purpose, and it's fundamental to the way the sites work. That purpose is to annotate content with experts' judgements. Even though nothing practical can actually be done about other uses, condoning them -- or even turning a blind eye -- is flat-out wrong.
    – jscs
    Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 20:16
  • @JoshCaswell, indeed, I don't mean these guidelines need to be taken too strictly, but having some policy at least a bit more precise than "interpret "this answer is not useful" how you'd like and how you feel on that day" would do no harm to SE.
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 20:22
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    +1 Votes are about the answer's content, not about being hospitable to the poster. If the answer does not stand anymore, a downvote is perfectly appropriate. A better course of action would be to edit the answer to bring it up to date, which is both nice to the original poster and helps everyone. But downvoting is a close second. :)
    – deceze Mod
    Commented Jul 16, 2014 at 14:37
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    @deceze, but why would an answer no longer stand if it is correct at the time of writing (I'm not talking about science where discoveries can be made to invalidate past theories)? It still stands for anyone using the version that was current as of the date of the answer. Having a look at the date is an integral part of reading an answer. True, votes are primarily about content, but not expecting the answerer to have had a crystal ball should at the very least be a matter of courtesy, especially when what they've written still stands, within the context of the date right next to their answers.
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 16, 2014 at 17:08
  • @Bruno Sure. However, unless the question and/or answer is very specific about which version it applies to, it's not necessarily easy to discern that. Not everyone can be expected to be aware of historical records of a technology and discern by the date which versions something applied to. If it is not clear, then the question and/or answer should first and foremost be updated. Again, a close second would be to downvote the answer to make it less prominent, if there could be any confusion caused by that.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented Jul 18, 2014 at 12:23
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It strikes me that the real issue here is that an answer happens to be version specific. If the answer clearly states which version(s) it applies to then I feel a downvote is inappropriate.

On the other hand if the answer appears to apply to all versions (or does not indicate in some way which versions it applies to) and it is inappropriate for a newer version released after the answer was posted then clearly the answer becomes confusing at a minimum.

Personally I think a simple edit stating something like "This answer applies to versions 3.1 through 4.2 only, a change made in version 4.3 makes this answer obsolete" would be more appropriate than a downvote.

6

Officially the voting policy is pretty clear. If someone downvotes an answer for not fitting a question then that is their prerogative and I think that has been rehashed elsewhere already.

For your specific example, I think you have some options.

The tags dictate the context. Since the tag on the question is ios, as a whole, then that means that context is past, present, and future. If that technology changes then the answer should change in order to keep up. The downvote here in my opinion should just be a sign that the answer should be split into a ios6- part and an ios7+ part indicating both sides.

However, maintaining answers like that would be rather involved. It also isn't really how this scenario should play out in my opinion. When that question was asked in 2012 ios6 was understood as the context, but the ios tag was used since it was the newest version anyway. I think that re-tagging the question to indicate that it was specifically addressing ios6 is appropriate in this situation because that is an honest representation of the question. It also does not deprecate any of the other answers as the ones addressing ios7 directly mention that. Those answers also came a year after the question was asked.

So you are left with two choices I think.

Retag the question to ios6. The problem with retagging is that it may be controversial to do. While it could work here, in other similar situations that may not be advisable to do.

Make an edit explaining the evolving change in technology. This type of scenario is probably not that common, and your answer could easily be protected by explaining the two operating systems while asking for a vote reversal once the post was edited. At least they left a comment.

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    I don't think re-tagging this question with ios6 makes any sense now that it also has an answer for iOS 7. In general, anyone reading any content from anywhere (not just SO) should really have a look at the date when that content was written (or which version it applies to). That's just the part of the basics of the general art of looking for information. It also applied to books, well before the internet.
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 21:25
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    @Bruno - I both agree and disagree. In iOS 6 this was an actual problem. The answer provides an actual solution. The answer referencing iOS 7 and the comment as well, both simply say "you can do this now" which means it probably isn't a problem with iOS 7. Since the tag indicates that this is relative to all iOS the tag is technically not correct any longer. On the other hand, as you say people should just inherently look at the dates and realize that when it was asked, iOS 6 was all they had - and since it is still iOS related it may as well say tagged iOS. Like I said, it is controversial :)
    – Travis J
    Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 21:28
  • I get your point, I suppose no one would have had the problem with iOS 7, yet it's good to have both types of answers, I guess. I think trying to re-tag every question from a generic tag to a versionned tag as soon as it's obsolete could generate a lot of re-tagging overall (and I think versionned tags themselves are controversial anyway). (I don't think the official voting policy is that clear, btw, I've mentioned in comments on this Meta question.)
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 21:42
  • @Bruno - I didn't want to get into voting policy as much in this post so I may have copped out a little there. I agree that voting is a complex situation, but for the most part voting is supposed to be straightforward. Is this answer useful (in the context of the question)? Yes +1, meh nothing, no -1. However, there is definitely a lot of room for interpretation that seems to create strange voting patterns. Voting patterns are probably best discussed on MSE where the majority of the employee moderators could weigh in.
    – Travis J
    Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 22:35
4

What do the numbers mean?

Do you agree that the number next to each answer should reflect its appropriateness?

I usually see the number of upvotes as an indication of what the community believes, with hindsight, is the best solution for the stated problem. It is quite common that this is not the accepted answer! (I trust the upvotes more than I trust the green tick)

If, due to external changes, a different solution now becomes more appropriate, I would be quite happy to see the old solution lose marks and the better solution gain marks, until the more appropriate solution now sits clearly at the top of the pile. Like a wiki, old stuff should get demoted or removed when something better comes along.

If people feel sad about losing points, then we can blame the pursuit of points for their pain, and consider how the equations could be adapted to deliver greater numerical justice. For example, the user could gain points based on how long their answer was the top answer, and not lose points if an established answer is downvoted after being useful for a long period.

The number of up and downvotes for an answer does not have to have a one-to-one relationship to the number of points the user receives. (Or one-to-ten.)

An obvious drawback with the downvoting approach is that it might take a long time for previously popular but now inappropriate answers to reach their correct place in the ranking, if they ever do. Given that, editing the answer to add caveats and explain its place in history may be a more practical solution (although it is more for the visitor to read).

Other adjustments could be made to the points system. For example, to address the re-ranking issue mentioned above, established answers could artificially lose points over time, so that answers voted up recently will gain more recognition.

Putting a clear link at the top of the answer to the currently recommended best practice answer might be the kindest thing to do for visitors. This could be done by the community if not done by the author, although the author might not like it!

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    "I trust the upvotes more than I trust the green tick", you're quite right, but I'd go further and say that if there's a hint of contention, it's worth reading more (if not all) answers (and possibly compare with other sources if required). I don't think people feel sad about losing points, but downvotes send the wrong signal: they signal that something is wrong, which may not be the case. I tend to check the upvote/downvote count when I'm looking for something, and seeing a negative vote raises concerns that may be misdirected. (...cont'd.)
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 16, 2014 at 22:45
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    (...con'd) I can read the date myself (and the comments) and figure out whether an answer applies to a different version. What I can't work out, if obsolete answers are downvoted, is whether such downvotes are by people who know the subject and thought the answer was incorrect (even if popular), or if it's because it's obsolete because of a new version. This is of course even worse is the vote balance is negative, for an answer that's correct but obsolete. I don't think the answerer losing points is the main concern: you need 5x as many downvotes to compensate for points you got from upvotes.
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 16, 2014 at 22:51
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It sounds like people are reluctant to down-vote Newton's answer just because Einstein later showed it wasn't quite the right answer (so to speak). Part of the problem may be that SO conflates votes for (current) usefulness with votes for reputation. Maybe there needs to be a separate way to vote an answer or a question as outdated that does not count toward reputation.

1

On older answers I usually take a glance at the comments to see if there's anything that would alter my perception on the "old" answer. I appreciate when people take the time to come back and edit/comment; and this happens often. If a few cranky people find it appropriate to down-vote an "old" answer there's not much that can be done.

Hopefully the average person looking for a quality answer will pay attention to the timestamps and do a little investigation.

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    "Hopefully the average person looking for a quality answer will pay attention to the timestamps". That would just be common sense, but perhaps it's not that common.
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 16, 2014 at 18:22
  • I believe that the average person looking for an answer reads whatever shows up as first on the page, possibly upvotes it, then goes to lunch. Typically, once an answer has moved to the top of the page, it tends to get more upvotes than a superior answer that appears lower down. Commented Jul 17, 2014 at 3:13
  • I should have emphasized the 'hopefully', as you are both right.
    – Joe
    Commented Jul 17, 2014 at 13:51
-1

The better alternative to downvoting the answer is to improve it by adding a bit of text, maybe even bold text, declaring at what point the answer was deprecated and at least hinting at the modern solution.

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    I guess it depends on how much of this is "editing" and how much of it is "authoring". I know we can all edit each other's answers, but edits are not normally meant to change the meaning of an answer. If you have a better answer: add your own (and like I said, leave a short editor's note saying it no longer applies). Mixing authorship in a single answer is generally not a good idea (if only in terms of licence and attribution).
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 16, 2014 at 21:37
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    If it looks like a highly placed answer's inapplicability to the current situation is actively confusing current viewers, and it's too long or already too heavily commented for a comment added to it to be readily seen, I could see a 3rd party placing something like "Note: this answer refers to an older version" at the top of it as being fair. But new content should probably go in a new answer. Commented Jul 16, 2014 at 21:42
  • @bruno and ChrisStratton, I agree 100% with both of those comments.
    – TecBrat
    Commented Jul 17, 2014 at 2:21
-2

I personally see it as a signal for myself to update my answer. I have several answers that I keep up to date. One in particular I update as soon as I learn something new (newer javascript standard stabilized or adopted by more than one browser).

Without the downvote or comment I woudn't know my answer is outdated.

Very often I get un-downvoted and upvoted after I've updated my answer. But sometimes the downvoter didn't leave a comment so he/she doesn't get notified of my edit.

In cases when I care enough about the answer (sometimes my answers are very long and took a lot of research) and the downvote annoys me enough I'd campaign to get more upvotes by leaving links to the answer in comments to questions or answers that are relevant. I usually get a couple of upvotes after that significantly offsetting the downvote.

-3

I think this is an issue with your understanding of the voting system.

My view is that votes reflect the usefulness of an answer, not the correctness. As time passes and technology becomes obsolete some answers may become less useful to the community (answer/solution seekers).

I thus think that downvoting an obsolete answer because it is no longer correct for a certain seeker is a good practice. Yes, it is also a lot more helpful if he also leaves a comment explaining why it is obsolete, helping future seekers of answers to the same question.

As the owner of the answer you are entitled to improve it at any time, maybe reversing the downvote.

The whole point is that, with few exceptions of trivial questions, no answer is correct for everyone. Combining multiple votes produces a rating by which you can sort the answers, showing the ones most probable to be of help to most answer seekers in front of others.

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  • You're raising a valid point regarding usefulness v.s. correctness. That's one of the major problems with the current voting guidelines (see this comment above). SO tries its best to encourage us to be objective, answer with facts, discouraging subjective questions. Yet, correctness is generally objective and usefulness is much more subjective (at least dependent on the environment and background of the reader).
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 17, 2014 at 15:59
-3

If someone comments that your answer is obsolete, and you want to improve it, you should edit your post to reflect the fact that it is now obsolete. (comments are comments, not content)

You can then respond to their comment to tell them their concerns where dealt with.

If it happens that they downvoted your question, the fact you edited it since the downvote lets them revert their downvote (even changing it to an upvote).

This results in a better answer. And quite possibly your problem (the downvote) goes away.

Downvoting an answer because it is a poor answer to the current question might not be "fair", but stack overflow more about good answers than being fair. While an answer to the problem in legacy systems is somewhat useful, it may be far from the most useful answer.

Users can downvote however they want (barring serial targeting downvoting an the like). They can downvote absolutely (ignoring the current score), or seek to correct for the wrong ordering of answers (downvoting over-upvoted ansers, upvoting under-upvoted answers).

Under absolute downvoting, downvoting a now-obsolete answer to a legacy question may seem unproductive (as it is still useful as a legacy answer). But under relative downvoting, a downvote can help less obsolete answers (even ones that do not exist) bubble up to the top. So long as you don't downvote an answer below -3, the answer will remain visible. And so long as the question has at least some positive answers and own positive vote count, it won't be auto-closed or deleted.

-3

"people can vote however they want" - literally sounds like votes have no value . People who answers add more value to the system than who just visits and downvotes. Rather than a downvote, a comment about what’s wrong or outdated will be the right thing to do for the future visitors. Sometimes it is not even clear why somebody downvoted.

A downvote for an outdated content adds no value, rather it discourages the answerer. The outdated answer has eased so many lives in the past, so the votes earned are there for a reason. The answerer might well edit the answer and add the updated content, but asking them that through downvotes is outright arrogance. He/She might no longer use the API or would have moved on to a different technology.

The purpose of votes and points is to encourage users to provide quality content, so downvotes will discourage the users no matter how you 'describe a downvote'.

As a benefiter it is my responsibility to check it the solution is for the version I am using. For example, I have recently started with C++, so when I search for solutions I will surely look for date on which the content is posted (right from the Google result) and use C++11 features as much as possible.

As a constant leecher of StackOverflow community, I respect all the users who dedicate their knowledge and time to create wonderful solutions for benefit of others. If I know that there is a better or up to date solution I do my best to point that out assdf and I won't downvote unless it is outright wrong or too naive.

-3

I think it's a fallacy that answers get obsolete. The good written answer doesn't get obsolete. The tools do. But it doesn't make the answer being obsolete or invalid.

The problem are too broad question.

For example, let's say someone ask about displaying something in IE. The current version of IE is 6. A good answer states all tips that must be made for IE6 and that answer is accepted.

Nowadays, is the answer obsolete, because current version if IE is 11? Of course not. Such statement would be absurd. The answer is still valid and if anyone for any reason still need to make the site IE6-Compatibile, it's a valid and useful answer.

The problem there is, that the question doesn't specify which version is targeted.

The solution is, to edit the question, from generic "How to do X in IE" to "How to do X in IE-Y".

Punishing APs for questions, which from time perspective became too vague or broad, is simply unjust.

-6

Often when someone downvotes and includes a comment with it - which is unfortunately rare, though it should arguably be required - that means they are willing to remove the downvote if you address the comment by editing your post. I'd suggest fixing your post, either by making it current or at least by adding a comment that it's now obsolete. Perhaps they will remove the downvote.

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