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I become increasingly doubtful on whether I am nice enough, after closing this question as a dupe: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/51223975/how-to-get-standard-deviation-of-slope-and-intercept-of-a-linear-regression-in-r The OP is very annoyed with me. Can I do anything better in this situation? The following is the full history of comments.

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I agree that I've marked many many questions as dupe; sometimes as soon as that question was asked.

Oh, he was asking me to apologize.

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For the benefit of those interested and without the sufficient rep to view deleted content. Here is the full image of the question and whatever comments were left when it was deleted.

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  • 21
    I'm about 60% sure it's a dupe, +/- 5% Commented Jul 7, 2018 at 16:08
  • 5
    TL;DR; Dupes should be useful regarding targeting the questions preferable solution, if it is a frequently problem asked. Especially if you are a "Mjölnir" Holder, be careful to keep that in mind (Pro Tip: You can add additional dupe links). Commented Jul 7, 2018 at 16:11
  • 1
    @πάνταῥεῖ My initially linked question may not perfectly match; but other alternatives suggested by R folks do better and I added them in.
    – Zheyuan Li
    Commented Jul 7, 2018 at 16:16
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    'unacademic'.... But it's NOT a homework?.... Yeah, right
    – Patrice
    Commented Jul 7, 2018 at 16:32
  • 47
    You know of course that you are not required to engage in a conversation with the original poster, and that the closure is neither nice or not nice but rather your attempt to perform appropriate site moderation. Commented Jul 7, 2018 at 16:32
  • @李哲源 I dunno, I have taken the power to clarify obvious XY problemz already. If you have enough useful dupe link information you can always backup more FAQ like material and edit in more useful links. Commented Jul 7, 2018 at 16:36
  • 1
    I think OP of the linked question had a point, see Difference between standard error and standard deviation
    – user000001
    Commented Jul 7, 2018 at 17:10
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    @user000001 Not really in the case of regression estimates. Yes they are different (as many of us explained in the comments), but in the question you are linking they are talking about the standard deviation calculated directly, where the standard deviation is a summary statistic versus the standard error aka standard deviation of a sampling distribution of a statistic also calculated directly, in that case the mean. The estimated standard deviation of the mean is calculated using the standard deviation of the variable that the mean is for. Yes it is very easy to get these confused.
    – Elin
    Commented Jul 7, 2018 at 19:07
  • 21
    He's being a jerk, he's making many people lose their time, you acted fine. Commented Jul 8, 2018 at 16:38
  • This why you should always Vote/Move On and never comment on motive. There are plenty of ways to get something reopened that do not entail arguing.
    – user177800
    Commented Jul 9, 2018 at 15:50
  • He offered to present something from Stata. I think he should have been taken up on finding out what he had in mind. Stata is a pretty reputable package.
    – IRTFM
    Commented Jul 9, 2018 at 16:36
  • @42- Might be too late now... the user was already removed. Actually I am also very curious about how that removal happened. The removal might have been too quick, before the issue was widely discussed here.
    – Zheyuan Li
    Commented Jul 9, 2018 at 17:07
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    @李哲源 - The user was removed because they were but the latest of a series of falsified sock puppet accounts that had been used to dump bad questions on the [r] tag. Many of these accounts had been highly abusive, so they are no longer welcome to participate here. Because the question was highly downvoted as a result of the attention brought to it via Meta, it was deleted when the account was removed.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Jul 9, 2018 at 20:11
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    Closing a question as a dup is inherently helpful, and therefore nice. (I mean, assuming it really is a dup, and the other question has an answer that will help the OP.) But in practice, dup-hammering a question with a comment can often come across as more nice, or polite, or helpful. Sometimes it actually is more helpful—e.g., if you're not 100% sure the OP will be able to see why the other question's answers solve their problem. But even when it isn't, you get a lot more "Thanks!" and a lot fewer "You elitist bastard!" comments.
    – abarnert
    Commented Jul 9, 2018 at 21:06
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    Also, once the OP has started arguing with you, there's really nothing you can do. Maybe go get another R regular (is there an R chat room?) to verify that your closure and explanation are correct, and then it'll be easier for you to move on, even if they're only a small chance they can do any more good for the OP or the question than you did.
    – abarnert
    Commented Jul 9, 2018 at 21:08

3 Answers 3

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It's not useful or polite to say:

Is it useful to argue with us?

Telling them to not argue about terminology also probably isn't useful or polite since they seem to think you gave them an answer related to one concept when they're looking for an answer for another completely different concept (which is, in principle, a reasonable thought and makes sense to point out, although the insistence here makes less sense).

In your defence, some askers refuse to accept their question is answered elsewhere (possibly due to missing the knowledge required to see this), refuse to clarify their question to explain, among other things, how it isn't a duplicate, refuse to provide requested information and are very persistent - there isn't much you can do about that (other than to move on).

In general, if the asker or someone else makes a point about it not being a duplicate, you can:

  • Reflect on what they said to determine whether you may have made a mistake in closing it as a duplicate (and reopen if you think you did, and it's otherwise an appropriate question).
  • Politely justify why you believe it is a duplicate (if it's not obvious and everyone's still calm and friendly).
  • Just ignore it and move on, since the community should be perfectly capable of reopening an incorrectly closed question without your help.
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    I agree with the just ignore suggestion. I'm usually one who will try to help posters understand why their questions are XY or using the wrong terminology, but when the poster won't respond constructively it's not worth it.
    – Elin
    Commented Jul 7, 2018 at 18:42
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    -1 because 100% disagree with Politely justify why you believe it is a duplicate., because of the subjectivity of politeness that is in play on this site and terrible advice. Esp. since they already apparently tried it and failed as would have been predicted. Vote/Move On is the official advice for a reason. I also disagree that your quote is not useful or polite. It is pointing out that instead of arguing they could have edited the question and provided the info requested instead of just arguing.
    – user177800
    Commented Jul 9, 2018 at 15:53
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    @feelingunwelcome I've never heard any official advice that says we shouldn't explain why things are duplicates (or even anyone else). I've only heard the opposite. Yes, "move on" is common advice, but that doesn't mean you should do that and absolutely nothing else. The subjectivity of politeness applies to everything - following that train of thought, we could probably also argue that we should disable comments altogether, and also votes, edits, answers and questions, because some might perceive some of those as rude. Commented Jul 9, 2018 at 16:40
  • @Dukeling - I agree, comments should be disabled and I have seen many many times over the years, esp recently, diamond mods stating in meta and in chatrooms "vote move on" as an official advice on down/close voting demands for explanations.
    – user177800
    Commented Jul 9, 2018 at 18:20
  • Further to the "lack of knowledge" point. It could be useful to edit the question this is a duplicate of to address the terminology the OP is looking for. If one person has made the mistake due to lack of knowledge, then more people are likely to make the same mistake. If you just shut the question down and leave things as they are, then you are not helping to improve the situation for future visitors. This will also create more work for you because more people will make the same mistake. Commented Jul 11, 2018 at 8:18
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As I have noted elsewhere

Closing questions is being helpful, but may not seem welcoming to a new user.

Duplicate questions often need closure because superior answers may already exist. The problem this user seems to have can be summed up as

The duplicate did not answer my specific question and I do not want to try and apply it here.

As long as you, the voter, believe that an answer covering the question exists, it's your duty to help them by pointing them to it.

What if I'm wrong?

Understand that you, as a normal user with limited moderation, cannot do anything that cannot be undone by other users or (in extremes) a diamond mod. If other users disagree with you, they can comment and/or vote to reopen. Nobody is perfect. But, as for here, the user refused to take your actions seriously. I've sometimes had people come back and make solid arguments and/or edits that made it obvious it wasn't a dupe. The key for users is to remember that SO contains tools to discuss for a reason. If they refuse to avail themselves of them, that's not your problem.

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  • What tools are available for discussion of a "Community" deletion.n I tried using this forum and am seeing downvotes with no substantive response to my reasoning, just a knee-jerk response with a narrow claim that it's not an answer.
    – IRTFM
    Commented Jul 9, 2018 at 16:26
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    You're in the right place. Meta voting works differently and indicates a user disagreed with your post. There's no points involved here
    – Machavity Mod
    Commented Jul 9, 2018 at 16:36
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I suppose it doesn't really answer your question, but since I cannot answer or comment on the original question due to its deletion, I'd like to put on the SO record that there is a statistically meaningful interpretation to the OP's question that was not raised in any of the comments, nor referred to in any of the three answers nominated as duplicates. There can be " percentile prediction bands" that can be calculated around a regression estimate. A 68.27%ile prediction band would have an interpretation like a standard deviation. It would hold points within a 2d range centered around the regression line that would be in the same proportion as would be held within 1 std-deviation of a one dimensional problem. It is for the opportunity to add this clarification that I will be nominating this for "undeletion".

I'm not sure who "Community" might be, but I think they might not have considered the statistical issues properly. At worst this could have been referred to CrossValidated as was suggested by at least one commenter.

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  • To the downvoter. Can you engage in a substantive discussion?
    – IRTFM
    Commented Jul 9, 2018 at 16:17
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    You stated that it doesn't answer the Meta question...so it's not unreasonable to expect downvotes for an answer which doesn't answer a question.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jul 9, 2018 at 16:19
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    I explained why I put it here. Meta is for discussion. Are we just supposed to bend over an take it when we disagree with a "Community" deletion and the SO interface allows nothing to be added? This is my effort to add a substantive reply to what I thought was a legitimate interpretation that would have a coding solution.
    – IRTFM
    Commented Jul 9, 2018 at 16:22
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    @42- You made me feel I have done something terribly wrong... but a question being closed for whatever reason is not the end of the world. I have also single-handedly reopened a few questions I closed myself, say stackoverflow.com/questions/51223897/…. It could be a matter of whether the asker is willing to work with helpers toward an agreed solution. If the asker does not respond or simply blows up, what can we do? On the other hand, there are situations that even a question remains open, there is no reply from the asker.
    – Zheyuan Li
    Commented Jul 9, 2018 at 16:57
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    Honestly, given what you've written here and the screenshots in the meta question... It sounds like this question might have been a tad unclear. In that case, the OP here actually did a little bit of a favor to the OP there, pointing them to related posts, if they aren't truly duplicates. This gives the OP there something to build on to help prove it's not a duplicate, with an edit to the post, and likely also clarify the post. That the post is deleted still isn't the end of the world- It can be undeleted and reopened both.
    – Kendra
    Commented Jul 9, 2018 at 16:58
  • Asking for down vote reasons is not constructive. the only explination/reason for a down vote you should ever expect is available if you hover over the down vote arrow.
    – user177800
    Commented Jul 9, 2018 at 18:21
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    @李哲源 - you did what you thought was correct, your intentions were clearly in the good of the community, do not let anyone get you down or feel like you did anything wrong. Even if there is the most remote possiblity you misjudged something, the community has your back and is completely capable of undoing what you did. Keep up the good work taking out the trash and ignore those that complain about it, especially if they are the polluters. The site would not work as well as it does without custodians like you working to keep it healthy.
    – user177800
    Commented Jul 9, 2018 at 18:24
  • @42- I took a screen shot of the delete question for you and added it to the bottom of the question so you can see it.
    – user177800
    Commented Jul 9, 2018 at 18:30
  • I was considering reposting it, adding a graphical display and adding my interpretation of what might have been expected. What the worst that can happen? I suppose I could get suspended for "willful disobedience".
    – IRTFM
    Commented Jul 9, 2018 at 19:05
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    If you can edit that question into shape so that it expresses the concepts you talk about above, it potentially could be undeleted / reopened, but in its current state it does not appear to be very clear. If you wish to re-ask the question yourself, but in a clearer form, that wouldn't cause you any problems at all. As I explain above, the question was automatically deleted by the system when the user responsible for it was removed for being one of a series of falsified accounts by an abusive person.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Jul 9, 2018 at 20:20
  • I found it rather ironic that my interpretation of the question already had a high-quality answer from @李哲源
    – IRTFM
    Commented Jul 9, 2018 at 20:24
  • @42- ?? Which one??!! I really can't match what you describe here to what I addressed (successfully or unsuccessfully before).
    – Zheyuan Li
    Commented Jul 9, 2018 at 20:27
  • @李哲源 : stackoverflow.com/questions/40634418 Feel free to close my question to complete this circle.
    – IRTFM
    Commented Jul 9, 2018 at 20:30
  • @42- That is really surprising to me... one question is to get two numbers, the other is to make violin plot!
    – Zheyuan Li
    Commented Jul 9, 2018 at 20:34
  • I wouldn't call your work a "violin plot" since it was being done with two continuous variables and I thought that the OP really didn't want just two numbers but rather might have wanted to see something like a boxplot but plotted and calculated in 2 dimensions.
    – IRTFM
    Commented Jul 9, 2018 at 22:43

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