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Let's be frank here, I'm definitely not someone who's known much around here because I don't contribute enough to be known. However, I do try, and today (around 20 minutes ago) I was suspended for being "rude", thereafter my suspension was removed and I was told to make a post here (as I couldn't earlier due to my suspension) so I could get a reason for my suspension from the respective moderator.

It all started on this post on SO and then it moved to this meta SO post.

My suspension was most definitely a mistake. The OP of the question I linked in my meta SO post responded in the original SO question (instead of the meta SO post) and rather than responding to them (as I knew it'd escalate the situation) I flagged it for a moderators attention, next thing, the post had been locked, my flag was helpful and I was suspended.

In my moment of panic (I've worked hard on this account!), I made a meta SE post as I wasn't sure what else to do, you can find that here.

I did the correct thing, instead of escalating the situation and engaging with the OP. I flagged their comment and now, I'm being punished?

If I was being rude, why would I draw attention to it on meta SO? I was genuinely trying to see if I could improve my comment. When I asked the moderators to show instances of my rude behaviour, my suspension was removed.

Are we now just pronouncing people guilty before we actually look at the facts?

Do I care about a measly comment?

No.

Do I want to improve?

Yes.

What is going on here?

Is this somehow related to that blog post?

Why was I suspended?

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  • That's going to have to remain between you and the moderation team...
    – Makoto
    Commented May 17, 2018 at 14:59
  • 48
    @Makoto The general rule has been if the user wants to discuss it out here in public, the team will comply. They just won't offer any details or such without the user initiating it.
    – Kendra
    Commented May 17, 2018 at 15:00
  • 16
    @Makoto not according to Brad.
    – Script47
    Commented May 17, 2018 at 15:00
  • @Kendra: Honestly I'm not sure I see the value in this discussion. All we mere morals can do is guess and suppose. Details as to why they were actually suspended would be with the moderation team. I suppose I'm just not seeing the value in the discussion, especially now that they're not suspended?
    – Makoto
    Commented May 17, 2018 at 15:00
  • nvm you probably haven't been bad. It's a good idea to give this out to public for the mod to give reasoning but this couldn't be done through emails or private chats?
    – L_Church
    Commented May 17, 2018 at 15:01
  • 9
    @Makoto Never said it was necessarily productive, just that that's the general rule. If they want to discuss it here, the mods will oblige.
    – Kendra
    Commented May 17, 2018 at 15:02
  • Did you not get an message and email when you were suspended? Commented May 17, 2018 at 15:02
  • @Carpetsmoker as mentioned in my meta SE post, I never received a notification, but, I did receive an email, but it pointed to a dead response link.
    – Script47
    Commented May 17, 2018 at 15:03
  • The email should contain the message, as well. Commented May 17, 2018 at 15:03
  • 1
    @Carpetsmoker the message looks like a default generated one, it says I was being rude, the purpose of this post is to find out where and how the mod that suspended me came to that conclusion.
    – Script47
    Commented May 17, 2018 at 15:05
  • 2
    Alright, fair enough. I would have expected the mods to include at least one or two examples of the undesired behaviour though. How else can you expect people to learn or offer a rebuttal? Commented May 17, 2018 at 15:07
  • 14
    In your previous meta SO question, a deleted answer by Yvette Colomb says Unfortunately your account was suspended in the haste by mistake, but it's up and running now. Moderators are human, so mistakes do happen, and this one got reverted fast. I'd say that's enough information.
    – Erik A
    Commented May 17, 2018 at 15:18
  • 4
    "Why was I suspended?" "My suspension was most definitely a mistake." Why are you answering your own question in the question itself?
    – Mast
    Commented May 17, 2018 at 15:19
  • 1
    @Mast well, I can safely think that it was a mistake because once attention was brought upon it, my suspension was removed?
    – Script47
    Commented May 17, 2018 at 15:21
  • 19
    @Makoto: "I suppose I'm just not seeing the value in the discussion, especially now that they're not suspended?" How can you know if a process is fair or reasonable if it is completely invisible? At the very least, you need to be able to ask about why something happened, and having it be a matter of public record allows us to know if the moderators are acting appropriately or not. Commented May 17, 2018 at 16:40

2 Answers 2

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I'm the mod who suspended your account. I made a mistake. It was an overly harsh action and I am sorry for causing you distress and the community confusion.

Brad has gone into the facts of the case in his answer. So I won't repeat those, but add a little. The system gives an automatic recommended suspension, and I dialed it back, as I thought it was too harsh, but because the recommended suspension (from past activities) was 30 days. I was in a dilemma about it.

To explain, the reason I chose suspension was some of the flags that have followed your account, meaning it wasn't the first time and there was a pattern. Combined with the other censures.

However, we did discuss it promptly in the mod chat room and I took advice from the other mods. Learning to mod on here is a steep learning curve and the focus on being nice has changed how strictly the boundaries are being enforced. So it's been somewhat a challenge in discovering how to handle things, just as the community is learning what is expected from them. It's been a difficult for the community over the past few weeks. I didn't intend nor do I want to add to that confusion.

So again, I'm sorry. Nothing is set in stone, I and the other mods are all held publicly accountable for our actions. There's checks and balances both within the community and within the mod team and with the Community Managers.

Again sorry.
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  • 37
    'the reason I chose suspension was some of the flags that have followed your account, meaning it wasn't the first time and there was a pattern' - Really? This seems like news to me, surely if this had been an ongoing issue, someone would've mentioned this to me earlier? Are you going to include the OP's deleted comment in this post as you did in the other answer that you deleted? I understand, you are human, you make mistakes, I make mistakes, we all make mistakes, but this seems more like trying to push the blame off on to me more than anything else.
    – Script47
    Commented May 17, 2018 at 15:48
  • 31
    'The system gives an automatic recommended suspension, and I dialled it back, as I thought it was too harsh' - You dialled it down to 7 days, but for what? That is the purpose of this post, what did I say that was rude? With all the information in front of you, surely and informed judgement can be made? And surely you saw the comments with me and the OP? Yet you still came to judge that I should be suspended, and what of the OP? They clearly said words which some people would deem as swears, have they been dealt with?
    – Script47
    Commented May 17, 2018 at 15:50
  • 26
    @Script47 Cut her a little slack- She is still learning how to mod on SO. As she said, there's a steep learning curve. It was a mistake, it's been corrected, and she's learned from it. She did what she thought she was supposed to.
    – Kendra
    Commented May 17, 2018 at 15:57
  • 35
    Mod explains reasons for suspension, admits making a mistake and apologises. Community downvotes. 😐
    – user247702
    Commented May 17, 2018 at 15:57
  • 11
    @Kendra my issue is not with the mistake, as mentioned, we all make mistakes, I respect has truly increased for said mod, my issue is the reasoning for why said action was taken. The frustration in my posts might be leaking more than it should but that is because I'm still not understanding the why of the action.
    – Script47
    Commented May 17, 2018 at 15:58
  • 2
    @Script47 Because she thought that was what she was supposed to do, and the fact the system suggested 30 days likely only reinforced that. Brad explained that part in his answer, that because of a distant past incident, the system suggested the suspension.
    – Kendra
    Commented May 17, 2018 at 15:58
  • 52
    This kind of transparency is what sets SE apart from garbage fires like Twitter and Facebook.
    – user1228
    Commented May 17, 2018 at 16:01
  • 6
    Fair enough, @YvetteColomb, please, understand this, my venting is not at you as an individual, it is at the action that was taken, I try not to hold grudges and I understand that we all make mistakes. This is how we all live and grow. Thank you for being open about your mistake.
    – Script47
    Commented May 17, 2018 at 16:01
  • 17
    Yvette made a mistake by taking action based on false assumptions/premises. It's a given that when they explain their reasons for the action, you won't agree with it. That's the point of it being a mistake. This post is about the apology, which I think is a crucial point in responsible moderation. Commented May 17, 2018 at 16:02
  • 5
    @Script47 I am not allowed to disclose the details of your account. This is the first time you've heard about it. There always has to be a first time. When there's an ongoing issue, that's when people get messaged or suspended. My mistake was suspending you. I should have left it and not contacted you at all. Again I'm sorry for that. I really am. In terms of what I thought was not favourable in your comments on that post I answered that in your other post. No one is pushing blame on you. I'm the one who is apologising.
    – user3956566
    Commented May 17, 2018 at 16:03
  • 8
    @YvetteColomb I'm just going to reemphasise my point, I don't have a problem with you. at all. Mistakes were made, fine, no doubt I was over zealous in my comments above.
    – Script47
    Commented May 17, 2018 at 16:06
  • 6
    Yes, @Script47, the system won't allow you to delete questions with answers. We prefer to leave them around. There's no issue here, everything has resolved, it can be left around.
    – Bhargav Rao Mod
    Commented May 17, 2018 at 16:14
  • 4
    @user2285236 It would be a conflict of interest there, moderators have been given explicit guidelines to not delete posts that they have answered.
    – Bhargav Rao Mod
    Commented May 17, 2018 at 16:14
  • 5
    The answer is missing the paper-bag, otherwise great answer!, Thanks Yvette! Commented May 17, 2018 at 16:20
  • 9
    It seems to me it would be a good idea to add some specific examples/details as to why a user was suspended (e.g. simply copy a few of the inappropriate comments). The default template is convenient, but doesn't provide people with concrete feedback on what exactly they did wrong, and can cause a lot of confusion if a suspension was issued in mistake like here. Commented May 17, 2018 at 16:37
55

I wasn't the moderator who suspended you, but they're unable to answer right now, so I'll do my best here:

I'll start off by saying that a mistake was made, and we apologize for that. This was the subject of significant internal discussion among moderators, which led to the quick reversal of your suspension. A suspension shouldn't have been issued in this case.

This did start with the question on the main site being discussed here, where a number of flags had piled up on the comments from everyone there. That question is already covering the comments there and whether those were appropriate, so I won't get into that.

The deletion of those comments triggered an automatic system flag for "too many rude / not constructive comments" on your account due to the deletion of other comments of yours that had been flagged recently. The moderator who responded to that and to the discussion there decided to issue a moderator message warning for what they saw as a pattern of rudeness.

Because you had had another incident in the distant past involving a suspension, the system automatically suggested the application of a 30-day suspension here, which the moderator lowered to a 7-day suspension.

That's the sequence of events as they happened, but I believe this was too harsh of an escalation for something that was already being constructively discussed. None of your comments by themselves were rude enough to warrant a suspension, and any pattern of edging into rudeness in comments could have easily been discussed as part of your Meta question.

When I see a pattern of possible rudeness, I first clean up the comments and see if it's a one-time thing. If it continues, I'll try to engage the commenter via a gentle warning, chat (if brought up there), or Meta (again, if brought up there). For more aggressive cases, I'll go straight to a warning. I only reach for a suspension if there's outright insulting behavior that needs to stop immediately or if someone has been warned and has chosen to ignore those warnings.

None of that was the case here, and a good discussion was ongoing, so a suspension was an incorrect response. As soon as it happened, moderators talked it over and decided to lift your suspension. At the very least, that allows for an open discussion to continue. Sorry about the confusion this caused.

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  • 46
    Is it unrealistic to expect a first-person apology from the moderator responsible? I got used to mods like yourself admitting their mistakes, and gestures like that are enough to settle matters. Right now instead we have a situation where well-meaning users (6k rep, 5 years on the site) get suspended presumably in the name of not being welcoming enough, with "mistakes have been made". I find this possibility scary and appalling, which is why an open apology would help a lot in diffusing the tension that probably many other users feel too. Thanks for the explanation! Commented May 17, 2018 at 15:24
  • 11
    @AndrasDeak well, it's either "you get a quicker response from other mod to prevent more escalation" or "you only get a first-person apology from the responsible mod but need to wait longer while the issue might heat up".
    – Andrew T.
    Commented May 17, 2018 at 15:29
  • 13
    @AndrasDeak - Usually our errors with suspensions aren't as public as this, but we do make mistakes with them and try to correct as best we can. I suspended the wrong person in a two-party dispute a couple of months ago because I had two tabs open at the same time and misread which was which. I think Martijn caught that one in minutes and let me know to correct it quickly. We all get notified about suspension and warning messages, and we've got a large enough group reading through those that someone will catch and question weird-looking actions. We're not afraid to question these.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented May 17, 2018 at 15:32
  • 4
    Brad it's ok to do mistakes, sure no problem we all do, but the key issue is to say you are sorry and if you can also tell us how you will avoid this to happen again. Commented May 17, 2018 at 15:35
  • 18
    As to timing, we all volunteer at different hours and in different time zones. This was pressing enough that I thought it best to get a quick reply and let the moderator responsible add color when they can.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented May 17, 2018 at 15:35
  • 10
    @BradLarson apologies if it comes across as though I'm making a scene about this and that I'm trying to make a mods mistakes public, I made this post as it was suggested. Secondly, my meta SE post was out of sheer panic when I realised that I had been suspended. Forgot about the contact form.
    – Script47
    Commented May 17, 2018 at 15:35
  • 1
    Seems to be a lot of mistaken suspensions lately. And moderators leaving the moderation team. Are you guys doing OK over there?
    – Jacob H
    Commented May 21, 2018 at 13:05
  • @JacobH - This was, near as I can tell, an isolated incident. Are there other recent mistaken suspensions that I'm not aware of? As for moderators stepping down, that happens all the time, particularly around elections: meta.stackoverflow.com/a/311059/19679 . We're volunteers, and sometimes work or personal situations are such that we don't have the time to volunteer anymore.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented May 21, 2018 at 14:35

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