645

Accepted answers are pinned to the top of the list of answers, even when the accepted answer is outvoted by other answers (unless it was a self-answer). I am requesting that we stop pinning the accepted answer to the top and just allow it to be in its natural sort order position.

My request basically echoes what Brad Larson has said before:

By default, we should sort accepted answers by votes alone. We can make the accept vote be treated as an additional vote as a tiebreaker, but I don't think that the person asking the question should have a super vote that outweighs the rest of the community.

Past Support

Shog9's 2013 analysis of the problem is worth the read, but even this analysis seems to suggest that a future reevaluation could be considered. I'm hoping that 2016 will be the year.

The argument for unpinning

  • The best answers can rise to the top.

    The Stack Overflow tour says:

    Good answers are voted up and rise to the top. The best answers show up first so that they are always easy to find. The person who asked can mark one answer as "accepted". Accepting doesn't mean it's the best answer, it just means that it worked for the person who asked.

    (emphasis added)

    Stack Overflow assumes (correctly in the majority of cases, I believe) that the top voted answers are the best answers. Artificially pinning an outvoted accepted answer to the top makes the bolded phrases above self-contradictory.

  • Consistency with self-answers

    Self answers are currently sorted in the way that I am requesting all answers be sorted. Here is an example of one of my self-answered questions. My answer worked for me so I accepted it and I'm not going to change the accept. However, other people have found another answer more helpful. Now that answer has the top position. That's the way it should be.

  • Allows incorrect and obsolete answers to fade away

    Sometimes incorrect answers get accepted for some reason (example). Other times the accepted answer may have been correct in the past but become obsolete (example). The original poster may no longer be around (or care enough) to change the accepted answer. Unpinning the accepted answer would alleviate this problem.

The argument against unpinning

I've seen very little in the way of a solid argument for keeping accepted answers pinned to the top, but here are a few reasons that have been thrown out.

  • The accepted answer actually works for one person

    But the Stack Overflow answers are not ultimately there for that one person. They are there for the countless visitors who come later. Ninety-nine percent of the time that I upvote a non-accepted answer, I am also signifying that it solved my problem or at least helped me get one step closer to solving it.

  • The accepted answer is tested (*)

    It is true that many people will upvote answers without testing them. However, if a highly voted answer contains a mistake, it will start collecting comments saying so. If that mistake is not corrected, other people start adding answers that are correct. The voting system starts moving those correct answers to the top. This seems fair to me.

  • The accepted answer solves the actual problem described in the question (*)

    Fine, but when I use Stack Overflow I don't care if my problem is exactly the same in every detail as the OP. Sometimes the OP uses a title that leads search engines and thousands of future visitors to expect a different answer than the one that solved the OP's problem (example). There is no need to keep those kind of answers on top anymore. If I want to find them I can scroll down.

  • Added complexity with other solutions (*)

    True, some proposed solutions may add complexity, like adding a threshold (<= 2nd answer - 10), or only answers with negative votes, or unpinning after 90 days, etc. However, I am proposing that the accepted answers are sorted just like every answer, just like self-accepted answers already are. If anything, this reduces complexity.

  • The checkmark belongs to the OP (*)

    Let the OP keep it. I'm not suggesting that we change the accepted answer or how the accepted answer looks. Only where it is located.

  • Users might think there is no accepted answer (*)

    Ok, but there are already lots of questions that don't have an accepted answer. I just go with the top voted answers in that case. It works pretty well.

Conclusion

Is there a strong argument against unpinning the accepted answer from the top that I am missing? If not, I hope that the Stack Overflow team will reconsider this issue.

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    Minor quibble with your use of the word "upvotes" when talking about the past support. "Order highest upvoted answer before accepted answer" doesn't have 92 upvotes, it has 100 upvotes and 8 downvotes. It probably worth mentioning the upvotes and downvotes separately as +100 / -8 shows a lot more of a consensus than +500 / -408 Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 9:13
  • 51
    The OP is usually the least technically competent of all the users that contribute to a Q+A. But Shog9's numbers proves it yet again, as it was done before, SO is 89% effective at transferring knowledge to those who need it. Even without compensating for the immeasurable appeal of the cargo-cult answers. This is quite a remarkable number, any educator would give his left pinky for such a result. And proves that using the accept mark as the most-likely-to-be-correct indicator is highly reliable. Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 9:24
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    @HansPassant, the accepted answer with the green check mark will continue to remain on top, pointing the way to a good answer, as long as it stands the test of community support.
    – Suragch
    Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 9:32
  • 46
    Somebody is going to have to show me that popularity is a better indicator of correctness. I personally greatly mistrust it, Justin Bieber is not a better musician than Mozart. We're in the business here of providing non-obvious answers. Well, I am. Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 9:43
  • 104
    Somebody is going to have to show me that a single OP's opinion is a better indication of correctness. I am not a better musician than Justin Bieber.
    – Suragch
    Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 9:47
  • 4
    The argument that this would make newer answers mroe visible is debatable. If ask a question and I'm notified of a new answer I'm going to read it. If it is better than the currently accepted one I will accept that bring it immediately to the top and making it more visible. So it works both ways. We could also think of a mixed proposal: make upvotes in the accepted answer count twice. In this way only if the community has a very strong feeling about relative quality of answers we swap the acceptance out.
    – Bakuriu
    Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 9:47
  • 6
    @Suragch If the OP accepts the answer it, at least, means that one person was able to actually use the solution to fix his problem. An anonymous upvote from a random person that didn't even test the code is worth nothing. There's plenty of answers that look good until you try them and discover that they have quite a few problems, yet they still attract upvotes.
    – Bakuriu
    Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 9:49
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    @Bakuriu, I see your point about the accepted answer being tested. In my experience, though, incorrect answers rarely get highly voted without collecting multiple comments pointing out the errors. And if they do, more answers come along that correct the errors. Over time the voting system really does sort things out fairly well. And while you are willing to change the accepted answer to your questions, most other people don't.
    – Suragch
    Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 10:15
  • 26
    If there's a concern that the accepted answer is no longer prominent enough, I suggest that between the question and answers (i.e. at the heading that says "x Answers"), there could be a hyperlink directly to the accepted answer, allowing readers to go straight to it (and making them aware that there is an accepted answer). Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 10:28
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    @Bakuriu: "means that one person was able to actually use the solution to fix his problem." - not necessarily. I have given incorrect answers that were accepted and I had to modify them later to make them correct. Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 10:40
  • 9
    I like this suggestion. Before I formally joined SO, I found the 2nd or 3rd answer would often help me, but only because I would keep reading. I never really liked that sometimes these answers had more upvotes than the accepted.
    – Lexi
    Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 11:00
  • 3
    Maybe we could agree on some middle ground which gives more power to accepted answers but still allows very highly upvoted answers to go past them. E.g. count the votes on accepted answers twice in regards of sorting. So for an accepted answer with +10, you would need +21 on another to pass it. Or maybe even use a logarithmic scale here.
    – poke
    Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 11:22
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    This has been something I've been looking at for almost a year (1 and 2), I'll bring it up again internally to see if we can come up with a solution.
    – Taryn StaffMod
    Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 14:48
  • 8
    One more factor to consider - there's a particular type of person who reads a question, reads the top answer, and upvotes it, without considering the answers that are lower down the page. With things as they stand, this means that the accepted answer actually gets more upvotes than it deserves, relative to other answers. The proposal here would fix this problem too. Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 23:48
  • 5
    Generally I agree with the ideas behind this post. However, I did like the point Shog made in the linked analysis essentially pointing out that highly voted answers may also be just as incorrect and obsolete as their lowly-voted-accepted-answer counterparts, and should likewise fade away.
    – OhBeWise
    Commented Jun 15, 2016 at 23:47

27 Answers 27

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As of 2021-09-08, we changed the default sort so that the accepted answer isn't pinned to the top and answers are sorted strictly by score.

Go here for details.

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    This’ll be interesting, but I think it’ll probably be a positive change. Can we get the aggregate data from any experiments you run?
    – Undo Mod
    Commented Aug 18, 2021 at 16:24
  • Can we [feature] an answer?
    – yivi
    Commented Aug 18, 2021 at 17:04
  • 1
    @yivi no, feature tags, like all tags, are reserved for the questions.
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 18, 2021 at 18:16
  • 2
    This is incredibly exciting, Anita. Looking at copy rate is a brilliant idea! Not sure if it's still used, but it seems like a better measure of usefulness than the old question grade metric for Stack Overflow. Are you also able to track which answer is getting copied from? Commented Aug 18, 2021 at 18:53
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    @JonEricson Yes, we'll be able to track which answer(s) are getting copied. (Nice to hear from you, we're overdue for coffee!)
    – Anita Taylor StaffMod
    Commented Aug 18, 2021 at 19:01
  • @Undo We'll share results at a high level in a writeup similar to this post. The data itself won't be publicly available because it is being pulled from our internal analytics system, not SEDE.
    – Anita Taylor StaffMod
    Commented Aug 18, 2021 at 19:03
  • Thanks, Anita! I suspect you'll see some strong age-related effects. When I'm looking for code to copy, I almost always sort by Active first when looking at older questions, especially in JavaScript, which has gone through a lot of big changes.
    – PM 2Ring
    Commented Aug 20, 2021 at 9:17
  • and the rate of users copying all or part of an answer - why do you think that copying is among main criterias? I can take a look on the answer and write similar code myself in my context with my variables. Why should I copy?
    – Qwertiy
    Commented Aug 20, 2021 at 9:58
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    @Qwertiy because most visitors do copy. Commented Aug 20, 2021 at 10:57
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    @Qwertiy It does not matter at all if people copy or use other means to use the code as long as statistically they use the code from the same answer, which is a reasonable assumption. Counting copies is still a good indicator. Commented Aug 20, 2021 at 11:36
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    @Qwertiy You can't induce from an edge case that the metric is incorrect. Commented Aug 20, 2021 at 11:47
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    @Qwertiy Occam's razor. People in need of a solution going to a Q&A site and taking what they need to solve the problem sounds much more likely than people going to a Q&A site to search for broken code so they can point this out in comments. Commented Aug 20, 2021 at 12:13
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    @Qwertiy It's not a perfect metric, but nobody's claiming that it's perfect, just that it's useful. SO can't tell when someone merely reads an answer. But they can tell if someone interacts with it by voting on it or copying from it. (Of course, they can also tell if someone comments or edits, but I bet the typical useful answer gets a lot more copy events, and it's not easy to automatically extract useful info from edits or comments).
    – PM 2Ring
    Commented Aug 21, 2021 at 6:58
  • 2
    As someone who sometimes adds new answers to questions that are old and already have hundreds or even thousands of votes, I dislike this change. Now, even if my new answer becomes the new accepted answer, it will be buried and never gain any traction. This de-incentivizes answering old questions with new and improved answers.
    – TTT
    Commented Oct 1, 2021 at 17:57
  • 1
    @KevinB really depends on the OP. It probably isn't the norm, but if OP takes the time to change the accepted answer after years, that should have quite a bit of weight.
    – TTT
    Commented Oct 1, 2021 at 18:02
271

It shouldn't be surprising, but I'm fully in support of unpinning accepted answers from the top. This site is built upon the idea that community votes will bring the best content to the top, so why do we let a single person override that?

Accept votes provide valuable information, so completely removing them isn't a great solution. Maybe they could act as a tiebreaker for sorting, or even be pinned to a second position behind a more highly-voted answer. The green checkmark is very visible to someone browsing the question, so I wouldn't be too worried about losing that information even if the accept vote was reduced to a tiebreaker.

Pinning accepted answers ahead of more highly-voted ones causes all kinds of confusion to visitors, can be manipulated by cheaters, and can lead to dangerous information being presented before correct solutions.

Manipulation of this sort order by voting rings isn't a theoretical possibility, it happens every day. Normal fraudulent voting can be invalidated by the system or by employees, returning vote counts and reputation to normal, but answers accepted by members of the voting ring keep their accept status and are still sorted above others. It's for this reason that I've started manually deleting any accepted answers, upvoted or not, that were accepted as part of a voting ring. We can't trust them, and the sort order keeps bringing them to the top.

Look at the comments here or here or here as just the first examples I pulled up in a quick search. People are so baffled that accepted answers like these are sorted ahead of others that we get flagged for them all the time. We can't remove accept votes, and can't make judgments on technical validity, so we have to decline these flags, but I feel bad in doing so. The dozen "not an answer" flags on these two answers are a result of this sort order, and many, many more have piled up over time.

Unfortunately, I get the impression that there's resistance to this idea internally at Stack Exchange:

FWIW, I've suggested a variety of things, internally, to "unpin" accepted answers from the top spot, including limiting it to those that were negatively scored (<= -3) to minimize the scope of the answers impacted. My suggestions were overruled because the pinning of accepted answers is part of what makes our sites different from others - it's the indication that an answer worked for the OP - we don't want to lose the signal for those answers or hide them way down on a list of a ton of answers. Unfortunately, at this time this is not something that is going to be implemented.

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    My main concern with unpinning accepted answers is the potential for damage. Right now, if we assume the highest voted answer is always "the best", the maximum error in the current system is 1 position. But if we unpin the accepted answer, and then assume an accepted answer is "best", the potential for error is a lot higher. (Obvious the reality is in between these two extremes.) I like your idea of having it pinned second if it isn't highest voted though.
    – River
    Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 15:36
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    So I'm accepting this answer and thus pinning it to the top even though it currently has less votes than some other answers. But I asked the question, so my vote counts more than everybody else who disagrees with me. Hmm....
    – Suragch
    Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 17:49
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    "the pinning of accepted answers is part of what makes our sites different from others" - apart from that awful Microsoft forum where there's always a question, an 'accepted' answer, then the useful posts, then the accepted answer in its real place. The accepted answer is often something really unhelpful (but it's worse there because there seems to be a policy to moderator-accept an answer for every single thread, regardless of whether there's a good answer or not). Point is, it's annoying there, and it's mildly annoying here when the accepted answer is outdated or irrelevant. Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 18:31
  • 2
    @Suragch I'm surprised you haven't accepted one of the other answers rather than this one, to highlight the confusion that it causes where a clear favourite exists. - Though as you say, this is a different effect when it is a newly created answer that perhaps deserves more votes, vs an old answer that has achieved its due popularity. Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 19:15
  • 1
    I think the option to show just the accepted answer in a new 'sort' tab might be nice if it does get unpinned. At least on questions with answers >= 10 or so.
    – TylerH
    Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 19:41
  • @BradLarson Also your closing quote mentions the phrase "at this time" but the quote isn't dated. When was that response given to you (e.g. 2016, 2015, 2010, etc.)?
    – TylerH
    Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 19:45
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    @TylerH Click the link right above it, I said that in November 2015.
    – Taryn StaffMod
    Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 20:16
  • @bluefeet derp, that's what i get for speedreading/multitasking
    – TylerH
    Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 20:33
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    If you have to contradict one of your own tenets (posterity first, asker second) for the sake of standing out from the crowd, that's... pretty silly if you ask me. Why vote on anything anymore when we can just leave it up to one schmuck to decide for themselves? It's not like acceptance doesn't award rep anyways. Why lock answered questions from deletion even when they don't have an accepted answer?
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Jun 15, 2016 at 2:09
  • 1
    @Grade'Eh'Bacon, Yes, I was actually also considering accepting one of the negatively voted answers to highlight the issue. However, I think accepting this answer also highlights an important point. That is, in the vast majority of cases the community agrees with the OP and there will be no disagreement in sort order.
    – Suragch
    Commented Jun 15, 2016 at 2:57
  • I agree that pinning the accepted answer to either first or second is the way to go. Let the votes dictate the top answer but never let the accepted answer below second. A threshold can be required before an answer can usurp the accepted one to fit with the answer by @Sumurai8 - This solution satisfies many different views that can be seen here.
    – Ron
    Commented Jun 15, 2016 at 5:09
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    This answer that you cite seems like a good argument against unpinning the accepted answer from the top of the list. As far as I can tell, CommonsWare's answer is the correct answer to the question, despite being an extremely unpopular answer. Why is it, exactly, that we want popularity to triumph over correctness? Because you are getting erroneous flags from people? If that's so, then this is solving the wrong problem.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jun 15, 2016 at 7:58
  • 2
    couldn't the accepted answer stand out in another way? Like some highly visible link at the question that transports you directly to the accepted answer? (something like the duplicate mark on a question)
    – Rhayene
    Commented Jun 15, 2016 at 8:04
  • 4
    "The accepted answer is part of what makes our site different"... What a bad reason not to change this. That's basically like saying "Our site is good so we should never change anything." SO is great, but that doesn't mean it can't be improved, and it definitely doesn't mean that all of its features are beyond reproach
    – nhouser9
    Commented Apr 8, 2017 at 4:39
  • 2
    Ugh, why hasn't this been implemented yet? Having to scroll down just to check if there is a better voted answer every time is so annoying! I would be fine with a "second-pin" of the accepted answer, I just don't want to have to scroll every time...
    – geekley
    Commented Jul 4, 2018 at 18:14
87

How about we simply sort all answers (including the accepted one) by votes/activity/age, and then place a clearly visible link to the accepted answer?

Here's a suggestion on what the link should look like:

enter image description here

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    This was also suggested in the comments. I like this suggestion.
    – Suragch
    Commented Jun 15, 2016 at 2:49
57

Unless a question gathers a huge amount of votes, the top-voted answer is usually the first answer to be posted, not the best answer. Just because an answer was posted first doesn't mean it is the most complete answer, or the most useful. Voting does not balance out the answers in this case, because most of those answers are not completely useless. They are listed first, thus gather an upvote for being somewhat useful. The other (better?) answer sometimes gets an upvote too if people keep reading until there. Having the OP list the best answer first by marking it as accepted will fix this, because people will read that answer first.

I feel that OP is in most cases perfectly capable of selecting the best answer for that particular question. Just because there are a few cases where the accepted answer is not the best answer doesn't mean the entire system has to be changed and hundreds of thousands of Q&A's where the best answer is the accepted answer have to be improperly ordered.

This SEDE query shows that currently 384,803 questions have an accepted answer that is outvoted by an other answer, where the accepted answer has a score <= 3. Are you telling me that these are all in the wrong order?

In comparison, only 75,888 questions have an outvoted accepted answer with score > 3, and from those, only 21,235 questions have an outvoted accepted answer with score > 10.

Here are some posts that have an outvoted accepted answer with score <= 3.

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    This makes some excellent points. Sometimes the only way to make a recently posted, more correct answer visible is by accepting it and thus pinning it to the top. This is especially true on old questions that typically have so many votes that it would otherwise take years for the new, better answer to rise to the top.
    – River
    Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 12:00
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    @River but the general question attracting good answers (and late, good answers) are hit-and-run by users long gone, or by people who don't seem to revisit their questions.
    – CodeCaster
    Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 12:06
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    Yes, I am saying that those hundreds of thousands of questions are listing the answers in the wrong order. The accepted answer should keep the check mark to alert visitors to which answer solved the OP's problem, but the community should choose which answer is displayed first. In the short term this will mean that some answers will be inappropriately listed first, but after a year or so of voting this will even out.
    – Suragch
    Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 12:18
  • 24
    I think the general problem you mentioned (the bias towards early answers over "best" answers) does exist, but allowing the OP to override the sorting algorithm isn't a very good solution to it. It's not reliable (often the OP doesn't stick around after accepting an answer) and imperfect (often a sub-standard answer will get accepted over a better one). If removing the sorting algorithm's bias against new answers is the goal, we should fix that problem directly: redditblog.com/2009/10/reddits-new-comment-sorting-system.html
    – Ajedi32
    Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 13:42
  • @Suragch You know that to not be true, as you can see in the data that a lot of those questions simply are older than 1 year. The average Stackoverflow user simply does not vote with "the order" in mind. I choose "score <= 3", because that is a sample set of useful but not overly popular questions.
    – Sumurai8
    Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 13:59
  • @Ajedi32 Sorting on ratio and a confidence value should indeed be a lot better, although the majority of posts do not receive enough attention to properly calculate a ratio I think. Such a change would be better than unpinning the accepted answer alone, which makes the incorrect assumption that the value of the accepted answer is always the same as the number of votes it acquired, which is simply not true.
    – Sumurai8
    Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 14:03
  • Looking at the first few posts in the link you gave, I do not see a compelling reason to list the accepted answers before the highest voted answers.
    – Suragch
    Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 14:09
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    @Suragch: The problem is that, IME, voting alone will not "even out" the score. One reason for this is simply that, after their initial "15 minutes of fame", most old questions get little attention and few votes, even if they do get a good new answer later. The other reason is that answer voting on SE is subject to "oligarchic growth": the highest-voted answers are shown first (by default), and so get read and voted on by most people, and so accumulate the most votes. Pinning the accepted answer to the top circumvents this, allowing even late good answers to gain attention and votes. Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 18:39
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    In the low-range of votes, "accepted" could have the weight of 10 votes. That means as long as few people are interested, the accepted answer stays first. However when 100s of people cast their vote for a different answer, then the OPs choice will drop. So your concern does not generally make the suggestion invalid.
    – tkruse
    Commented Jan 21, 2018 at 2:18
  • @IlmariKaronen If there are many answers to a question, I would argue that a new answer, even if it's unique and presents new information, might not be "needed". Of course, there are also questions where that could be desirable as well. A user could read on if they are interested in how others have solved the problem, but I think a more robust approach would be to have a default order for non-members, a link on the question TO the accepted answer, and both a way to re-sort the answers from the question itself as well as allowing me as a user to set what my default answer sort method should be.
    – codewario
    Commented Aug 20, 2021 at 20:09
38

As I've mentioned many times before, including my comment here, I have looked at this, a lot, and would really like to get something done, but the problem is many implementations may lead to further issues or confusion to users not used to the network.

That being said, I'm not opposed to looking at this...again.

There have been lots of discussions about this, you've linked to several of them, I could link to lots more but that would probably make this answer hit the character limit, so I won't.

I'm just going to throw this out here as an idea that was mentioned by styler1972 in the comments and we briefly discussed internally.

What if we made this a preference setting in your profile, so you could unstick the accepted answer from your view only?

This is not a new sorting option, it would override the existing sorts so you wouldn't have to see the accepted answers pinned to the top.

I'm not saying we'll do this, I'm just tossing it out there to see what you think. I'm aware it's not a silver bullet, but you won't have to see the accepted answers stuck to the top any longer if you change this setting.

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  • 54
    I like the suggestion, but there's a small issue with it: Users that are familiar enough with SO to change that setting probably don't need to change that setting, as they're more than capable of judging a answer's quality. Users that need to see the highest scoring answer first probably don't know SO well enough to realize that setting exists.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jun 15, 2016 at 12:43
  • 7
    Although I would prefer to see sorting as the default, if all that can be agreed on at this time is a preference setting, I say go for it. Perhaps if people find that this is a useful setting, then it will later be adopted as the default.
    – Suragch
    Commented Jun 15, 2016 at 13:02
  • 7
    I'm going to temporarily mark this as accepted, not because I like this answer better than Brad Larson's answer, but to give it more views. (By doing this, though, I realize I am using a function that goes against my argument for unpinning.)
    – Suragch
    Commented Jun 15, 2016 at 13:10
  • 3
    @Cerbrus Yes, I'm aware. Like I said this isn't a silver bullet but it gives you, the user, more control over how you see these answers. Maybe eventually, we can see about rolling something like this out on a permanent basis.
    – Taryn StaffMod
    Commented Jun 15, 2016 at 13:22
  • 1
    Well i think that an accepted answer from the user should still be seen more than this. Maybe the preference could just choose if the 1st answer shown is the most upvoted and the accepted answer will be in 2nd or the opposite.
    – Walfrat
    Commented Jun 15, 2016 at 14:57
  • 1
    I don't like the idea to add more options in the user settings. It's already full of important things and adding another one is to make it even more complex.
    – Zanon
    Commented Jun 16, 2016 at 0:08
  • 1
    @Suragch: That's called "making a point", and a perfectly normal thing to do.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Jun 16, 2016 at 8:13
  • @Suragch: Crap, now this answer is at the top. I recommend answering the question yourself to prevent the answer from being pinned. Then we'll wait to see if users get confused.
    – vgru
    Commented Jun 16, 2016 at 8:16
  • @Groo, I have no further answer beyond the argument I presented in my question. It is up to Stack Overflow to make a decision on how or if to proceed. But I am switching my selected answer back to the top voted one.
    – Suragch
    Commented Jun 16, 2016 at 10:22
27

SO is about getting the "best" answers and by inspecting the Tour and UI of voting, "best" means "most useful":

so is about getting the best answers

useful defines what best means

So to take the subjectve argument out of this debate, apples for apples comparison IMO should be:

How many questions are not showing the most useful answer at the top when sorted by votes when there is an accepted answer among them?

Currently, count of questions with an accepted answer is 7124248.

Currently, count of questions with an accepted answer which is outvoted and not authored by the OP is 491241.

6.9% of the set are failing to deliver on the goal of "most useful answer at the top" which is statistically significant and by this definition, potentially a bug! :o

6
  • Maybe a counter exemple from my own history: this Q/A where my answer overweight the accepted answer. First motivation to write the answer was to benchmark solutions (I had put my idea in comment at first). I'm unsure this would worth to be the first answer seen.
    – Tensibai
    Commented Jan 19, 2017 at 9:31
  • 1
    @Tensibai I'm sure there are lots more counter examples - hence no action from SO on this behaviour.
    – Matt Kocaj
    Commented Jan 20, 2017 at 1:05
  • Only 6.9%? Interesting, my impression was that it was significantly higher than that. I wonder if that percentage changes if you only look at popular, highly-voted questions...
    – Ajedi32
    Commented Apr 7, 2017 at 13:18
  • Apparently my hunch was correct. If you only look at questions with score > 10, the percentage jumps to 13.6%. For score > 40, 14.3%. For score > 100, 12.8%. If we go by ViewCount, > 1000 views is 9.7%, > 5000 views is 12.9%, etc. So it seems like once you filter out the long tail of niche questions that don't get a lot of attention, the percentage of questions with (IMO) incorrectly sorted answers grows significantly.
    – Ajedi32
    Commented Apr 7, 2017 at 13:35
  • 1
    Another thing worth noting is that since accepted answers do currently always get placed on top, those answers are more likely to get voted on than the answers below them. This means that even some accepted answers which are the highest-voted answers to their respective questions might not deserve that status.
    – Ajedi32
    Commented Apr 7, 2017 at 13:38
  • @Ajedi32 Great work digging deeper but SO doesn't seem to wanna move on this. Sorry mate
    – Matt Kocaj
    Commented Apr 10, 2017 at 13:36
21

In the ideal case, new good answers to old questions with highly-voted but less-good answers can be accepted so they're shown first.

e.g. my answer to Fastest way to do horizontal float vector sum on x86 was accepted soon after I posted it, years after the question when there was already an upvoted and accepted answer. It still has fewer upvotes than the previous accepted answer, but shows up first under the current system.

This is the ideal case, though. Many of SO's questions don't still have active users to curate them, so this is a reasonable suggestion for the more common case of less active question askers.

4
  • 1
    In the ideal case, yes. I've also had a few of my new answers to old questions accepted, but it has been a very small percentage of the many answers I write for old questions. As you said, many questions no longer have an active user to curate them. I've had at least one case where someone answered one of my old questions. Their answer looked good but I just haven't had the time or energy to go back and test it.
    – Suragch
    Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 12:26
  • @Suragch: Yeah, having the accepted answer first can't really be justified as a solution to the new answers to old question problem, which is very real. (especially for popular questions when a language adds a new and better way to do something.) Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 12:31
  • 11
    There are better solutions to this general problem of new answers not getting enough attention than just hoping that the OP is around to update the accepted answer. For example, Reddit found a good solution all the way back in 2009: redditblog.com/2009/10/reddits-new-comment-sorting-system.html
    – Ajedi32
    Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 13:33
  • 2
    So a better answer may come along later, which could be accepted but have lower votes because of historical voting. That's a valid point, but what about the opposite? A better answer comes along later and gets more votes, but an older, poorer answer has been accepted. I guess it depends on who you think is more likely to review newer answers: the crowd who are looking at the question or the original poster, who has his answer already and (presumably) has moved on.
    – mattumotu
    Commented Jun 15, 2016 at 8:37
20

I would like to further emphasize the importance of unpinning the accepted answer from the top with two points.

It makes outdated content stick around.

This is a reiteration of one of the points already known, all right. I'm bringing it again because this issue really happened to some extent in the tag. A significant number of questions have been asked before Rust reached 1.0 in 2015, and some of the accepted answers became outdated. Our experts in the tag had to add header notices in accepted answers to indicate that they are outdated and should be avoided, potentially accompanied by downvoting to leave a strong enough signal to visitors. More than that would be conflicting with the author's intent (which we generally do not appreciate).

This has, in fact, lifted some heated discussion in this GitHub issue, which really speaks for itself on the subject. A few quotations follow, but feel free to read the rest.

I've updated the accepted answer on the first question [...] that had a substantially out of date accepted answer (from Rust 0.4!), [...]


OK, I'll chime in. _____'s edit was a bad one. There's already an answer with 121 upvotes and now the (poorly) accepted answer "steals" all the credit. Yes, Stack Overflow has issues, but that type of edit is breaking the community. If you want to do such a thing, just edit a warning about oldness.


I strongly disagree with your opinion on my edit.

The issue here is with the way Stack Overflow is implemented; no one but the original questioner can change the accepted answer or cause another answer to float to the top.

The whole purpose of Stack Overflow was to solve the problem of forum posts about technical issues in which the forum structure made it hard to find the correct answer. [...] you had to find the right answer buried somewhere deep in the thread that was impossible to find.

But the current structure of Stack Overflow replicates that exact issue if there's an accepted answer, and both the question author and the answer author have stopped using Stack Overflow. Luckily, Stack Overflow allows edits; so you can edit the initial answer to provide an updated one. This is explicitly mentioned in the original Stack Overflow announcement: "You can also improve on the answers. If an answer is incomplete, expand on it. If an answer has a bug in it or is obsolete, you can edit it and fix it."

Somewhere in the intervening time, the culture at Stack Overflow seems to have become protective of content. Your reasoning, that we should refer to a lower down answer rather than editing the accepted answer in which the questioner and answerer seem to have no interest in updating it, is prioritizing some internet points for a few SO contributors over actual usefulness to the majority of people who come in and stop reading after the first answer.

Just leaving a warning is far less useful to casual people who drop by that answer than actually putting a real answer in that space.


And therein lies the rub; the Stack Overflow of 2018 isn't the Stack Overflow of 2008. The community has changed in drastic ways (and continues to do so). [...] Perhaps people that share your same views that SO has gone off-track will do to SO what SO did to Experts Exchange. Maybe Rust should stop using Stack Overflow for such content.

However, it's important to note that we are playing in Stack Overflow's sandbox; we need to follow the rules.

How to Read User Input in Rust? is a great example of something that bugs me. Yes, the accepted answer is old and not relevant, but why do we need to cater for the people that won't scroll down a half of a page. Dealing with accepted vs upvoted is a perennial topic on SO meta, FWIW.


Because who else are we catering for? Stack Overflow is about catering for people who want to do a Google search and find a quick answer without having to wade through a whole bunch of bad ones.

The top post, and big green checkmark, distinguish an accepted answer a lot more than the number of votes do.

So, unless accepted answers are unpinned from the top, the only reliable solution to this (that keeps Stack Overflow in the equation) is to tell people to stop being lazy and keep scrolling (how welcoming!).

It just doesn't work on Meta.

We currently admit that accepting an answer on Meta doesn't mean much. Quoting:

On Meta specifically, there are no guideline or standard behavior. A few reasons due > to which OP may accept an answer are:

[...]

  • A discussion post was answered such that OP got convinced or there seems to be a community consensus around it

However, this will still make everyone else read that answer first, regardless of being agreed with (or not) as the community consensus, and regardless of being what effectively answers the question (which is very often the case when moderators post an answer). Sure, we may just assume good faith and let them choose the one deemed more reasonable. But unfortunately, not everyone does that. For example, it only takes one other user agreeing with the OP's controversial position and stating that in an answer for that one to be at the top once it's accepted. This is the opposite of the outcome we want, nothing reasonable can be done to prevent it, and only irritates our core users. It's not like we're too lazy to scroll, or that we want controversial voices to be shut up, but giving those a privileged position just because the OP agrees is unreasonable.

But allow me to be skeptical about on my own position for a moment. Here's a SEDE query for all accepted answers with a negative score on a Meta question with at least one other answer. At the time of writing, this yields 72 answers, 115 if we include questions with only one answer. Among them, we can identify two major, non-negligible situations:

  • Answers from SO employees announcing the decision behind a feature that most users did not appreciate or just wanted to express disappointment with, hence the downvotes. This, I'd find it's still a good outcome, as I guess people would want to know about this first, and only then the potential opinions around it.
  • Of course, the aforementioned case where answers were badly scored, yet had a better received answer from another user or even a moderator. This is a bad outcome, which would have been fixed with an unpinning.

So, I understand that it's a double-edged sword. The voting culture of Meta is different, and makes a poor metric of usefulness or importance. At this point, I feel that a more specific rule that would send moderator posts to the top would actually be more useful. But I'm not officially suggesting this yet. More research is needed before I propose this on Twitter.

3
  • "This is the opposite of the outcome we want" That all rather depends on the question. If you're asking for why some moderator action was taken, 3 other people could chime in before the moderator and get their posts upvoted. By accepting the answer from the moderator, you establish the importance of that post, since its from someone with actual authority and from the person who the OP was asking. And no, you're not going to convince people to not upvote posts they agree with just because those posts aren't from the people the OP was actually asking. Commented Oct 30, 2018 at 16:20
  • 3
    @NicolBolas We're living strange times, aren't we? :) It doesn't sound far out to me that a message from the moderator who is in proper position to answer the question would also be well upvoted eventually (am I missing something here?) Yes, it works both ways, but I'm inclined to prefer not having this order disrupted by the accepted answer tick pulling controversial opinions.
    – E_net4
    Commented Oct 30, 2018 at 16:31
  • The same argument works the other way around. If an accepted answer is controversial, it's likely to be heavily downvoted. So people will still know what they're seeing. The problem I have with using these exceptional circumstances against acceptance is that they're exceptional; they don't happen that often. Putting the accepted answer first is a benefit more often than it is a hindrance. Commented Oct 30, 2018 at 16:42
13

I'm not saying I'm against unpinning. Both the votes and the check mark have their problems. These are two conflicting arguments, both unsolvable.

First, you'll have to ask yourself: which answer do you actually want at the top? I for one surely don't want to see the oneliner without explanation, but the answer explaining the flaws in the OP's code, then containing some generically applicable code (i.e. not necessarily tailored to the OP's code), some explanation of what the code does and why, and mentions potential drawbacks of the approach in the answer that presumably solves the OP's and later visitors' problems.

Because a vote can mean either "I like your gravatar", "I know your username", "I like that questioning of the OP's intelligence that you weaved into your answer", "I like your text formatting", "You posted what I wanted to post", "I know of only one approach and this answer shows that", "This code is actually clever, well-documented, robust and reusable", "I copy-pasted this answer and it solved all my problems" and whatnot: votes have no quality value, because you don't know who cast them nor why.

They generally indicate popularity, not quality. You, as a voter, don't know what the next visitor is going to be looking for, you vote for yourself. Will the next reader be trying to educate themselves, or are they looking for a copy-pasteable oneliner that can get their project back on track? The OP generally being of the latter category, a learner can ignore the check mark. The next Googler? They might find the check mark very useful, and the code applicable to their case, having no interest in the "chatty" background discussion.

Unpinning the accepted answer does not solve this problem. It only takes away the binding vote of the OP, who might just be as clueless as the other voters. I do agree that we do need a way to remove wrong or outdated but accepted answers from the top, so unpinning might solve that problem.

We need a different way of rating answers altogether, but properly reviewing and rating things is a Hard Problem.

9
  • 16
    I generally want the answer that the community has chosen. Sometimes it is a quick one liner. Sometimes it is an in depth explanation. However, I rarely prefer an accepted answer over the more highly voted answer below it. Although votes do indicate popularity over quality, I would not say they are without an indication to quality.
    – Suragch
    Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 12:04
  • 2
    @Suragch, "community has chosen" criteria may rot over time. I don't see any "hard problem" here. As a stranger (looking for help) I am searching for question which sounds like my problem, then I read accepted answer, then I check other answer to see if there is anything better and only then I try something to solve my problem. The order matters very little (the problem of choice is not big for SO format). Only if you would allow hundreds of answers, then order would matter. From other point there is bigger problem - to find better duplicate, but this's slowly solved by moderation and merging.
    – Sinatr
    Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 13:37
  • 8
    It's true that "community has chosen" can be unreliable at times, but I would argue it's much more reliable than the current "an individual has chosen" for the majority of the questions asked. And order does matter! Many people won't bother reading multiple answers, even if there may be better ones below the top. Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 13:39
  • 9
    "votes have no quality value"? So, what's the point of voting on SO? Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 13:40
  • 6
    I think we're using the word "quality" differently. I vote on a post's "quality" in terms of those laid out in the help center and its usefulness. I don't use the word "quality" when thinking about a post's correctness. Sure, correctness plays into its usefulness; an incorrect answer is not terribly useful to me. I think your point of view may very well be close to the truth, but I think that saying voting based on popularity is "what everyone does anyway" is a defeatist attitude that leads to a worsening situation. But that's my opinion, man ;). Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 15:43
  • 3
    For users who don't understand the site, an accept vote can just be a "thanks for being the only one to try and help me in the last 30 minutes, i will now succumb to your bully tactics to get your answer accepted so you can earn an extra 15 points; and i'll never return to review the 5 much more helpful and relevant answers my question has garnered in the ensuing months/years"
    – JDB
    Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 21:21
  • 4
    I cast the final vote to undelete this answer, because I think it makes useful and insightful points, and I wanted to upvote it. I couldn't figure out an obvious reason why you chose to delete it. Sorry to have overridden your wishes. :-)
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jun 15, 2016 at 12:32
  • @Cody I didn't think it really added anything to the discussion, but if you and two others thought it did, then I'll happily leave it undeleted, thanks.
    – CodeCaster
    Commented Jun 15, 2016 at 12:42
  • This gets my vote. I have a secondary problem with votes and quality: they rot with time. People vote in the here and now and collectively likely do the right thing, but what happens say two years later when votes have piled up long after the fact? Is the highest voted answer then still the best answer, or is a younger answer perhaps the better choice because it was written with new developments in mind? I tend to find my answers in the newer low-voted answers myself on questions that aged, so votes really do not help me most of the time. They're a good moderation tool, no more.
    – Gimby
    Commented Jul 1, 2016 at 15:02
6

The arguments for leaving the pinning in the question leave out what is, in my opinion, the best argument for leaving it: the case of a better answer coming in later. Even on the less-trafficked SE sites where I've more active, an earlier answer will often have quite a few upvotes before a better answer is posted later. The current system allows the question author to switch the accept to the better answer, which moves it to the top. Otherwise, the newer but better answer may linger beneath a few (or several) older answers that are not as good, which perpetuates the problem by giving the new answer less attention.

However, the opposite problem does exist (and probably moreso here on SO than on the other SEs where I spend more time) of the OP accepting the first answer they get and then disappearing, never switching the accept to an answer that has been much more highly upvoted by the community later. And, of course, this is a perfectly valid argument against the pinning.

In both cases, the problem stems from newer, better answers not getting enough attention and coming to the top. In my opinion, the best solution to this would not be either strictly accepted-answer-first or most-highly-voted answer first, but the sorting would instead be influenced by how new the votes are or the accept is.

As an example, here's a possible solution that would solve both problems:

  • Accepting an answer still moves it to the top immediately.

  • After, say, 24 hours from the time of acceptance, answers that have received more net votes since the accept will move back above the accepted answer.

Yes, this is a bit more complicated, but it also seems more useful in that it solves what seems (to me, at least) to be the most important problem with either the current behavior or the behavior proposed by this question.

3
  • 2
    To cope with "a better answer coming in later", I would offer that more recent votes should have a higher weighting the older votes.
    – chux
    Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 19:11
  • @chux That's certainly one possibility, but it seems like getting a proper weighting that would work for all sites and traffic levels would be pretty complicated (and certainly much less straightforward to explain when people ask about how the sorting order works.) For example, on a high-traffic site (and/or a question that hits the "hot network questions" list,) an existing answer could already have 50 or more net votes that are only a few hours (or less) old before a new answer is posted. On the other extreme, it could have 2 votes that are 3 years old.
    – reirab
    Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 19:27
  • @chux That was why I liked the idea of letting the asker pin an answer for the first 24 (or whatever is agreed on) hours and then considering votes cast since the acceptance for deciding whether the answer should stay at the top or not. If the community continues to prefer the other answers, they'd move back to the top. However, if a majority of people who vote after the new answer is accepted agree that it's better, it would stay at the top.
    – reirab
    Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 19:32
4

I propose that the answer with the most upvotes always takes the top position.

If that answer is not the accepted answer, then the accepted answer takes the second position. This is because the accepted answer is important, but usually not as important and/or as up to date as the most upvoted answer.

From then on all answers will be ordered descending as they are at present.

3
  • Huh? You are describing how the system currently works, but that is not what the OP is asking about.
    – tripleee
    Commented Jun 17, 2016 at 4:47
  • 7
    @tripleee: The current system is that the accepted answer (almost) always comes first. The system he describes allows a higher-voted answer to appear first, but the accepted answer would appear second. Commented Jun 17, 2016 at 6:11
  • 2
    Ah, so this is a competing proposal? Sorry, sloppy reading, but also feeling this is a rather unclear answer.
    – tripleee
    Commented Jun 17, 2016 at 6:15
4

A proposal:

Place answers with more than double the accepted answer's score above the accepted answer. Potentially there could be a minimum score for the accepted answer before this takes effect.

This way, the process is not changed for less clear-cut cases.

If it seems to make a positive difference, then we could favour the accepted answer even less.

4
  • 1
    Of course I would support a proposal like this as an improvement over the current status, but how would "a positive difference" be recognized?
    – Suragch
    Commented May 8, 2019 at 17:08
  • 3
    Perhaps if the non-accepted answer would in its current state earn the poster a Populist Badge, then it could be sorted above the accepted answer.
    – rgettman
    Commented May 8, 2019 at 18:07
  • @Suragch good question, I thought that that could be decided later. Perhaps if the change didn't cause any big complaints from people. Commented May 9, 2019 at 8:30
  • @rgettman that sounds like a good option. Commented May 9, 2019 at 8:31
1

Problem: Outdated or bad answers are on top. Since the asker usually doesn't stick around for years to maintain a question, having the accepted answer pinned to top is a bad idea. Since a lot of upvotes can accumulate for an answer, only sorting by votes isn't the best idea either. For example, if a question is for Java and the best answer at the time was for Java 7, but now there's an answer for Java 7 and Java 8, naturally the 7+8 should be on top (if it's equally well written etc.), but it'll take a while to gain hundreds of votes.

Best solution (in my opinion): A sophisticated sorting-algorithm. Other pages like reddit have demonstrated how it can be done. StackOverflow would need to find an algorithm that reflects its needs. For example, a lot of recent upvotes gives a strong push upwards.

Meanwhile, in my experience the most upvoted answer is often still much more useful for the community than the accepted answer. And I think the big value from StackOverflow is for the community and people googling questions and finding the right answers fast. The asker already has an asker and is long gone, but the community will visit a question for years to come. I felt so strongly about this point that I implemented a chrome plugin to re-order answers by votes. From the StackOverflow team however, I'd hope to see the smart algorithm!

1

I feel the problem is perhaps not that there is an accepted answer (hereafter called "best" for brevity) or that it is pinned, but rather that the best answer is the sole responsibility of the posted user. Ideally every (registered) user should be allowed a single best answer vote per question, and the accepted answer should be the best special voted answer in aggregate which is also not obsolete.

Why not simply use the upvote and downvote counts?

Well there are many time where you might give credit to other users for providing supplementary information in their questions. But the "special vote" answer should be the answer which has the meaning of "the other answer may be good, but this is the one which I really wound up using for my implementation". In this way there are two voting axis, the good axis and best axis. The only useful information is "What is the best(fastest/easiest to implement/most efficient/etc.) to do X, in the version of the package I am using?" That is the best answer should reflect the best way to do something in the version of the package in most common usage by the community, in order to serve the maximum number of people. That being said, the voting scheme must not exclude answer which were historically correct, so long as they continue to be correct for targeting older platforms.

Here "continues to be correct" should be understood as for example not causing a security problem e.g. strncpy() vs strcpy(), for one the bounds are unchecked, but the library can be backported, so an answer using an unchecked version might be retroactively thought of as less correct.

Are there other advantages to doing it this way?

Many askers do not select a best answer at all. If the onus is on the community, it is more likely that a best answer will properly be both selected and selected at all. Lots of users don't accept any answers

Should I be able to edit my "best vote"?

A best vote should always be changeable, I might go so far as to periodically put your best answer vote in the review queue, and give you rep for choosing the best answer on a question you may have chosen some time ago. As software changes the best practice also changes, even if the question doesn't. A best answer should come up for edit if a voted for answer becomes obsolete.

See Introduce an "Obsolete Answer" vote

-1

How about banners to highlight the situation when you cannot necessarily trust the checkmark?

Stack Exchange Alert

The Accepted answer is very old, and a significantly newer answer below has received a large number of upvotes recently.

This is just a shot from the hip; input welcome on what exactly the parameters should be for when this banner is displayed.

4
  • Then who will decide to which of the alternative answers this alert should link to? E.g. see this question: stackoverflow.com/questions/1260748
    – tkruse
    Commented Jan 21, 2018 at 2:20
  • By brief glance, the question you link to only has one answer whose net upvotes clearly outnumbers those for the accepted answer. My thinking was that this could be completely automatic, though I'm sure there may be cases where perhaps human overrides would be useful. We already have mechanisms for that so I don't think that's a deep flaw with this idea, though obviously a more detailed specification will be necessary if this proposal ever receives significant positive support.
    – tripleee
    Commented Jan 21, 2018 at 7:23
  • That is the issue, the question also has an answer linked to from a comment to the question: "Please save yourself some time and directly go the answer that works (in 2017):" For questions that do not age well, the best answer may remain hidden below accepted, most popular and duplicate answers. That's the difference to wikipedia, once votes are cast, editors have a hard time getting new best answers to visibility.
    – tkruse
    Commented Jan 21, 2018 at 23:15
  • Well, that's a case which isn't covered by the tweak I propose here. Perhaps the comment could even be lifted into the question itself for now.
    – tripleee
    Commented Jan 22, 2018 at 4:48
-3

The other answers look in terms of the reader of the answers, I want to look in terms of the answerer themselves. The quality of the answers depend on potential answerers thinking there is a point in answering a question:

  • If you're answering an old question and that answer got accepted, then you will feel more positive about answering old questions (although the low rate of accepting new answers to old questions means that this is not as good as it could be, but it is still better than nothing).
  • Also the accepted answer feature weakens the loop in a feedback loop. The opinions of any community sway over time, as a potential answerer you will be less inclined to go against the status quo if the quality of the answer is only measured by the community; thus creating a feed back loop. This feature is not perfect, but it still gives the community a slight nudge once in a while.

Thus the accepted answer should weighted more than just a single extra vote. When sorting it should receive a bonus equal to the top voted question at the time that it was accepted or a bonus of 5. This bonus will not be shown as extra votes but will used to sort the answers. If it is no longer the accepted answer, then the bonus should be removed. This will give a system that is half way between the current implementation, and totally unpinning the accepted answer.

1
  • 3
    The feature request isn't to remove acceptance, it's just to not pin accepted answers to the top of the page.
    – Servy
    Commented Jun 16, 2016 at 19:46
-4

Here's an idea that I'm not even sure I agree with, but I think it's interested food for thought. Is there any good reason to not open up the "accepted answer" mechanism to other users?

I think part of this question, and maybe even the heart of it is...

What is the significance of the accepted answer and is it useful?

Arguably, the most consistent utility of the accepted answer is that someone took the time to verify, test, and prove that it solves the problem as described. However, and I mean this as a real question, is that something ONLY the OP can do??

Perhaps "accept answer" could be generalized to "verify answer" and opened up to everyone. Voting up and answer means you think it's a good answer/solution. Verifying an answer means you had the problem described, you tried that solution, and it worked for you. It's letting other users let you know you went the extra mile and are signing off on this solution.

Then to solve the sorting problem, just add another sort that goes by # of verifies. I could imagine something that looks like this...

NEW SORT OPTION enter image description here

NEW VERIFIED NOTIFICATION ON ANSWERS enter image description here

The "accepted answer" idea just becomes a subset of a "verfied answer" (the case when it was verified by OP specifically). If used correctly (big if?), I'd suspect the only "verified answer" would be the OP answer for most cases anyway.

In terms of sorting, the votes sort wouldn't arbitrarily lift accepted to the top. Sorting by verified would allow people to see answers OP and others are signing off as proven, tested, working solution -- for all people that value OP accepted answer for this reason (ie. ACTUALLY TESTED), I'd suspect this is an acceptable way to float those to the top.

5
  • 5
    Yes, because people will only mark the answer as verified if they've actually verified it. Sure.... Here's what will really happen: people will treat it as a super upvote and you'll soon see solutions that cannot work marked as verified.
    – Louis
    Commented Jun 17, 2016 at 23:07
  • @Louis, I think you bring up an excellent point. Maybe have it cost rep for those that aren't OP? Commented Jun 17, 2016 at 23:23
  • I'm already of the opinion that we should not get -1 for downvoting answers. You won't see me agree with the notion that doing an action which is akin to upvoting should cost reputation.
    – Louis
    Commented Jun 17, 2016 at 23:27
  • I tend to agree with Louis, even if it costs rep. The reason we can trust the OP's verified accept mark a little more is that they supposedly could find the answer no where else before they asked. They have a real problem and they are not going to mark an answer as accepted unless it solves their problem. It is more difficult to verify that for other people who are passing by.
    – Suragch
    Commented Jun 17, 2016 at 23:30
  • 1
    Perhaps casting a "verified" vote would be limited to the OP and those who hold a gold tag badge in one of the question's tags (i.e., those who have demonstrated themselves to be experts). It is not without problems, of course, but it's a far better idea than letting anyone who wants use this as a super-upvote.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jun 19, 2016 at 8:28
-4

Why not letting the user to choose according to his/her preference?

Simple links such as "sort by most vote", "accepted answer", "chosen answer" (and/or others) would please everybody.

1
  • 10
    Except that they would add confusion and lead to the best answer not necessarily being seen by the majority of people. Remember that most of our views come from anonymous users through search engines, so the really critical question is which sort order to use for them.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jan 18, 2017 at 14:07
-5

There are many areas where SO requires users to bring some level of awareness and thought to their participation. The notion that the pinned accepted answer may not be the best answer is not a difficult concept to grasp.

My point is that the accepted answer should not be unpinned on the basis that it leads to minor confusion (in light of other more highly voted answers), or because there is concern that blind code-copy monkeys may invoke a nuke in production.

Making decisions based on the lowest denominator goes against the notion that users need to bring some level of care to their SO interactions.

1
  • UI is hard. Let's go shopping! (More seriously, I can only really buy a design with deliberate confusion if it's something like nuclear reactor control software, where the confusion tends toward inaction rather than mistaken action. SO does not have this level of blatantly self-aware complexity, so UI confusions do not tend to keep users from stupid things.) Commented Jun 15, 2016 at 22:57
-7

Keep the accepted answer pinned for the OP if the OP is signed in!

But if the OP is not the one viewing, and, say, the general public is viewing the same post, then I'm flexible.

In that situation, I would suggest that you make this a gradual change to start.

I don't think anyone would argue with the hit/miss ratio of this implementation:

If the top-voted answer has twice the score of the accepted answer and has at least 10 points more, then it is ranked above the accepted answer.

I do like that the OP's mark carries extra weight. It gives the OP a sense of ownership and responsibility.
I realize this may not be a good thing for certain of our userbase. ☺

However, I think my solution is a step in the right direction, since it takes care of the clear-cut situations.

We can adjust the settings to be more lenient after this change is well accepted.

  1. Continue to give the OP an extra sense of ownership, beyond the strength of the simple 'upvote'.

  2. Whatever is best for the visitors!

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    I can't recall a time (except maybe back in December of 2011) when I was officially "signed out" of Stack Overflow.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 19:11
  • 1
    That's good. That means if you accept an answer it will always be on top from your point of view. Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 19:24
  • 2
    That's kind of my point. I can't see this working out in that we give authenticated users one view and unauthenticated users another view, which really boils down to the ordering that we display things.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 19:57
  • Um, lets see. Not all authenticated users see the same thing. For example, I accepted the answer that worked for me but other answers were way more popular. When I sign in, I want my preference to stick. When you sign in, you see the same thing everyone else sees, which is the top-voted answer on top. Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 20:04
  • I suppose there's a risk of confusing if different people see different things. But my overall point is I still want the OP to have special privilege, beyond the typical upvote. If you guys decide all folks need to see the same thing then at least be gradual about it, and not mix it in completely by how it was scored. (self-answer mix-ins make sense, but other mix-ins need to only apply sparingly) Commented Jun 14, 2016 at 20:06
  • 2
    @Makoto I think you missed the "...for the OP..." part of the suggestion - the suggestion being that if you marked the answer as accepted, you see it first - but I won't. The "...if the OP is signed in" bit is basically redundant - that's just saying that we can't perform that special service for OPs who aren't signed in.
    – Jeff
    Commented Jun 15, 2016 at 3:57
  • 4
    @Jeff, I edited the "for the OP" part in when I saw the misunderstanding. Sorry about that. Commented Jun 15, 2016 at 4:18
  • Haha got it. Well, you'll be glad to hear that your edit has made it much clearer
    – Jeff
    Commented Jun 16, 2016 at 1:59
  • @GeorgeBailey: This idea makes no sense. If we are of the opinion that the accepted answer should be given no priority over any other answer, why should it appear first to the OP? That's basically lying to people. To the OP, they see that the accepted answer appears first, so they believe that they caused that to happen. But they didn't. However it is we decide the view should work, it ought to work the same for everyone. Commented Jul 14, 2016 at 15:38
-7

Quoting from an answer...

FWIW, I've suggested a variety of things, internally, to "unpin" accepted answers from the top spot, including limiting it to those that were negatively scored (<= -3) to minimize the scope of the answers impacted. My suggestions were overruled because the pinning of accepted answers is part of what makes our sites different from others - it's the indication that an answer worked for the OP - we don't want to lose the signal for those answers or hide them way down on a list of a ton of answers. Unfortunately, at this time this is not something that is going to be implemented.

To solve this problem I think it's better to replace the concept of accepted answers with that of solved questions. There should be a marker on the question to show that it was solved for the OP.

And since (quoting from a comment)...

The site was explicitly, and very vocally, created specifically with the point of benefiting future readers, and explicitly not there just to benefit the one person asking.

I want to say that people do not care if the problem was solved for the OP or not they are looking for a solution to the specific problem they have. OP's accepted solution may not be the visitor's accepted solution. And as such it does not make sense to have an accepted answer.

IMO it is better to let the users vote and decide if the question has been answered to their satisfaction. The question should be marked as solved if the number of upvotes for the solved criteria exceeds the number of downvotes. Thus making the solved/unsolved situation more dynamic. This will also help in flagging stale information.

We can probably have a "Solved" button which can be checked/unchecked like the Facebook like button. Or we can have upvote / downvote arrows. But in either case the question should be marked as solved or unsolved according to the votes cast by people.

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    This is already how votes work, minus accepted answers. This isn't actually proposing any new change.
    – Servy
    Commented Jun 17, 2016 at 13:20
-7

To add to what others said, the current situation leads to some people just not accepting answers at all, because they dislike seeing wrong prioritization for other QA-s.

Sometimes the author cannot even do a test to verify a new answer anymore. They might not have the OS/framework/environment anymore, get the bus factor (a.k.a. lottery factor) in, etc.

4
  • Both of these points seem like very far from norm edge cases
    – charlietfl
    Commented Dec 6, 2020 at 14:09
  • @charlietfl I don't think so really, I've encountered a number of well-maintained questions, with the author being responsive and taking part in conversations, that do not have an accepted answer (e.g. multiple fit, to some extent) Commented Dec 6, 2020 at 17:28
  • I've also seen multiple comments where the author said they cannot verify the answer anymore, therefore they don't change the accepted answers. And that's only the subset of those people who actively wrote about their decisions and reasons. Commented Dec 6, 2020 at 17:30
  • Although I usually still accept answers, I'm always happy when I see questions with unaccepted answers for this reason.
    – Suragch
    Commented Dec 7, 2020 at 2:58
-8

Have you thought that some users are using sort by active, not by votes. Usually the accepted answer is nice and it should be pinned.

Why should the accepted answer appear first when the users sorted by active answers? Personally, when I have answers sorted by activity, I would have preferred to see the most recently posted or edited answer, regardless of the presence of an accepted answer.

Your way requires switching the sort, but I almost never do it. Answers are constantly shown in activity order.

There are 3 main reasons to view the question:

  • When I need the recent activity, it's ok to scroll through a single answer.
  • When I need some deep solution, I check all the answers, so the order is irrelevant.
  • When I need to remember some small thing. And here is the case where one pinned answer helps. It's usually enough to view it or sometimes even a question to find what I needed.

I don't want to lose this functionality.

What value does the accepted answer have over an answer that has double the upvotes?

Does anybody going to pin the most upvoted answer? As I see here - no. They are just removing the pinning.

If you need something small, chances are the most upvoted answer is the one you need.

I think, in such cases any of them is fine. Let's for example suppose that I forgot some function spelling. Will accepted answer contain it? In most cases - yes. Will the most upvoted answer contain it? I think yes too. Why does accepted answer differ from upvoted? The most common case is that it was given faster and because of that is shorter - not a problem for this case, maybe even a plus.

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    I could ask the same question a different way: Why should the accepted answer appear first when the users sorted by active answers? Personally, when I have answers sorted by activity, I would have preferred to see the most recently posted or edited answer, regardless of the presence of an accepted answer.
    – E_net4
    Commented Aug 20, 2021 at 9:02
  • @E_net4theflagger, updated an answer.
    – Qwertiy
    Commented Aug 20, 2021 at 9:55
  • 3
    "When I need to remember some small thing. And here is the case whe one pinned answer helps." Why is it worse that it's not the accepted, but the most upvoted answer you'll find in that case? What value does the accepted answer have over an answer that has double the upvotes? If you need something small, chances are the most upvoted answer is the one you need. None of your 3 points require the accepted answer to be pinned.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Aug 20, 2021 at 10:03
  • @Cerbrus, updated an answer. Note that nobody proposed to pin the most upvoted answer for another sorts except of by votes.
    – Qwertiy
    Commented Aug 20, 2021 at 10:28
  • 2
    I still don't see how removing the pinning negatively affects you there?
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Aug 20, 2021 at 10:29
  • @Cerbrus, because I may have to scroll in the 3rd case.
    – Qwertiy
    Commented Aug 20, 2021 at 10:31
  • 3
    Or you just click on that one button that says [votes]. Sorry, but this feels like you're grasping at straws here to be against a often requested (and imho nobrainer) change...
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Aug 20, 2021 at 10:32
  • 2
    This answer reminds me of this: xkcd.com/1172
    – yivi
    Commented Aug 20, 2021 at 10:39
-9

Observations

It seems clear to me that the folks who run SE want to keep the accepted answer at the top. This makes sense in terms of it flagging what OP considers to be the answer that worked for them.

I've read a fair bit of comments begging the question, "Why is OP so special? Why does their vote count more than everyone else?"

It also seems clear to me that the community is speaking out against what seems very obvious to experienced community members: that accepted answers aren't always the best answers and the accepted answer sometimes flies in the face of how the community has spoken.

When I first joined SE, I was excited to see a "free version of Experts-Exchange", which is where I believe the design for SE came from. Experts-Exchange was a really awesome site for Q&A if you were willing to pay for it. (Don't worry, SE is way better.) My observation here is that a solution to this problem should be elegant, forward thinking, and should improve the quality of the experience of all members, not just OP and people who Google.

However, I see the potential for an option that I have not seen discussed yet: adding new behavior/functionality to satisfy the experienced community members while keeping the same system in place.

Discussion

I think the folks at SE are hesitant to fundamentally change the way the site operates. It's really nice to come back to SE day after day, year after year, and not be blindsided with aggressive UI updates and ecosystem changes. This is a huge plus.

SE could not exist, at all, without user contributed content. That means the OP is literally the most important part of the question at hand. They have a problem, a context, a view, an understanding, that the community volunteers to help out with. Since the OP is asking the question, the OP gets the final answer. This must be understood.

At its core, SE is not, in this particular sense, a forum for longevity and thus should keep the focus on OP rather than those who search on Google. However, SE is in fact a library of unimaginable and invaluable information to help those people who do search on Google and come to SE for their inquiry -- this is all provable by how people actually use the site. (In other words, the site was designed for one thing, but people tend to use it for another. Proof of this is how SE has grown beyond professional programmers.)

The SE community gets a say in the process of answering OP's question by way of voting. Community votes are a good thing and it helps everyone sift through what might be good information vs. what might be not-so-good information. As it stands, there's only two types of votes involved: the OP's accepted answer and the community votes.

Below, I propose a solution.

Why not implement a third category of the voting system reserved for established experts in the field of choice?

Here's how this might work. OP maintains their ability to put an accepted answer at the top of the discussion. The community up/down voting system will also be maintained. However, a third category would be implemented, possibly showing a blue checkmark or other positive visual indicator, and this sort of "community accepted answer" shows up just under the "OP's accepted answer". This allows the accepted answer to be immediately visible to everyone (regardless of settings for your own personal profile) followed by the community accepted answer.

This voting category could be quite simple: if you have more than N reputation (sort of how mods and established community members are able to vote on closing a topic, etc) you may vote for yourself, as a community voter representative, what you see is the best answer. The answer with the highest reputable community votes becomes the "community accepted answer".

This could be extended to allow reputable community members to vote on different categories, each with their own distinct, but simple, visual indicator:

  • Community selected response for best technical answer
  • Community selected response for best explanation (tutorial-type) of answer
  • Community selected response for best historical answer (sometimes an answer is neither technically correct nor is it even the best solution, but perhaps it's a tried and true example of how people have implemented the solution in the past)
  • Etc. The list can go on.

Note: I am not actually advocating for a complex category system for community accepted answers; I'm just pointing it out.

Advantages

The advantage to this approach is that nothing about the current way the votes, answers, etc. change. An addition to the code base for this scenario should, in theory, be more or less straight forward. (In theory :P )

This solution would do more to improve the quality of what SE offers: better information at a glance.

There's no UI changes other than one community selected answer to show up under the accepted answer.

There becomes an even greater motivation to submit quality answers because, let's say, if you post an answer that is both accepted and reputable community voted as best, you perhaps earn even more rep for hitting the nail on the head.

Allowing a reputable community voted answer also allows the community to establish an "accepted answer" of sorts on those answers that have no accepted answers -- thus improving the interaction between SE and the general user.

Disadvantages

Another highlighted answer may confuse some users.

Moreover, it does add to the UI a little bit more. A work-around to this is allowing people to hide community accepted answers using a setting in their profile (turn this off by default).

Conclusion

My approach here was to find a way to keep everything more or less the same with a small added layer to the voting system. Users who have no rep (like me) wouldn't be considered reputable community members and thus wouldn't even be allowed to see the option to vote as a representative for the "reputable community", but I'm still allowed to upvote/downvote at my leisure as my small amount of rep provides. Those with a high amount of rep (and those who have established their rep according to the tags in the post) would be given more power to influence what they feel is a more correct or accurate answer, thus increasing the validity of SE answers in general.

TL;DR

Add a third category for voting: "reputable community" votes that herald an answer based on the voice of experienced (and passionate!) members. We've allowed OP to have influence, we allow non-reputable community members to have influence (general voting), but we do not allow a voice for those who keep raising this issue time and time again. Let's give it to them, shall we?

$0.02

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  • 1
    Citation needed that SE was ever designed for anything other than a searchable repository primarily and a helpdesk secondarily. Commented Jun 17, 2016 at 0:41
  • 12
    SE could not exist, at all, without user contributed content. Agreed. That means the OP is literally the most important part of the question at hand. No. Not at all. They're relevant, but certainly not the most important. It's the experts providing the quality answers that is the most important part of the site. People with questions will go to wherever they have to go to get answers. Since the OP is asking the question, the OP gets the final answer. This must be understood. Not at all. This in no way holds. In fact it's been shown that it's often harmful to do this.
    – Servy
    Commented Jun 17, 2016 at 2:35
-9

Answers should stay pinned. The asker needs to be empowered to point to someone and say "yes! that's it!". That empowerment makes them more interested in reading the replies and refining their questions.

Occasionally, an asker will accept an answer that is wrong. That will mislead a few visitors, and that's bad. But the system needs to protect the dialog between asker and answerer. Visitors come to benefit from those exchanges.

In other words, benefiting the audience at large is a side-effect of the exchange, not a point in and of itself. Taking the OP out of the 'pinning' decision is like deciding football scores by audience votes instead of by the referee. Sometimes the referee is a dummy. And sometimes he's wrong. But he's closer to the field and is going to make the right call more often than the audience would.

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    In other words, benefiting the audience at large is a side-effect of the exchange, not a point in and of itself. That's provably false. The site was explicitly, and very vocally, created specifically with the point of benefiting future readers, and explicitly not there just to benefit the one person asking.
    – Servy
    Commented Jun 17, 2016 at 2:11
  • @Servy agreed. I've listened to every.single.podcast. I know that what you say is true. "Does this make the internet a better place" is the guiding question. But the method for accomplishing that is by making the right behaviors attractive and fun. And empowering askers to decide which answer is best is part of that. The point of a garden is to please the observer, not to have watered dirt. But you don't please the observer without watering the dirt. Commented Jun 17, 2016 at 2:14
  • Your sports analogy is completely off point here. A referee is a paid professional there specifically to make the calls being made. People asking SO questions are not paid professionals specifically hired to judge the correctness of these technical questions.
    – Servy
    Commented Jun 17, 2016 at 2:14
  • @Servy the relevance of the referee analogy is not his professionalism. It's his proximity to the event that is being judged. Commented Jun 17, 2016 at 2:15
  • 3
    Your assumption that people wouldn't come to SO to ask questions if they weren't allowed to accept answers is clearly false. People come to SO to get good answers, not to power trip on getting to accept whatever answer they feel like. And it's not like SO has any shortage of question authors. The site literally has more questions than it knows what to do with. Going out of its way to try to get people to ask more low quality questions, and push forward more low quality answers, is harmful to the site and its goals.
    – Servy
    Commented Jun 17, 2016 at 2:17
  • The fact that you think pulling any random audience member and putting them on the field would make them a qualified referee is rather...disturbing. Quite clearly you cannot just take any random person and ask them to referee a sports event and get even a remotely passable result just because they're close to the field. In fact, I'd be quite confident in saying that putting several dozen referees in the stands, and acting on their consensus, would almost certainly result in more correct calls than a completely uninformed viewer directly on the field.
    – Servy
    Commented Jun 17, 2016 at 2:20
  • That analogy fails further still in that the question asker doesn't have any more information than anyone else in evaluating the quality of the answers. They don't have "a better view" of the answer; everyone is working with full information, so it is purely the expertise of the individual reader that is relevant in the value of their opinion.
    – Servy
    Commented Jun 17, 2016 at 2:21
  • I see your point. What if it docked for users with a score above a certain threshold? Or what if accepting an answer counted as five votes for the purposes of sorting? Commented Jun 17, 2016 at 2:23
  • Relevant: search for "dock" in this transcript: stackoverflow.fogbugz.com/default.asp?W24213 I think the assumption should be that the asker is not an idiot, that they know the answer when they see it. Commented Jun 17, 2016 at 2:25
  • Why would it need to count for any more than any other person's vote? What makes the OP's vote worth 5 other people? As for the first point, I suspect at that point we'd be looking at a shockingly small number of cases, most probably just a few dozen if the threshold is even moderately high, making it largely moot either way; probably wouldn't be too harmful if added, but likewise wouldn't really be worth the hassle to try to implement either.
    – Servy
    Commented Jun 17, 2016 at 2:27
  • @Servy sounds like a good candidate for some statistical analysis. Perhaps we could ask someone on the statistics site to do that, then deliberately accept a wrong answer just for kicks. I'm done with this conversation, thanks for the time spent. Commented Jun 17, 2016 at 2:29
  • Anything in particular from the podcast you're trying to call out? They mention that this issue is an issue, but (reading a few paragraphs above and below the section) don't seem to really discuss it in detail.
    – Servy
    Commented Jun 17, 2016 at 2:30
  • Re: podcast, the tone seemed to me to imply the asker was qualified to "know" the right answer when they see it. But that was a long time ago, when the site was not attracting the unwashed masses. Commented Jun 17, 2016 at 2:32
  • 2
    Indeed; at the time that podcast took place, the people asking questions were largely professionals who really were qualified to judge the answers. Not exclusively, but often enough as to not cause as much concern as these days. Additionally, being at the very start of the site there was virtually no first hand experience of the actual effects of these mechanics. Now we have lots of evidence to base our decisions on, rather than just theorizing as to what might happen.
    – Servy
    Commented Jun 17, 2016 at 2:40
-10

NO.

Popular != (Correct && Understandable)

Assuming the OP chooses a solution that works, the risk in keeping the selected answer pinned is simply that the another valid solution may be "better" in some way. However, a "lesser" solution is still a solution.

The risk of showing the popular answers first:

  • They're likely untested
  • As a corollary, they may not actually work
  • They may state "correct" things, but miss the mark on answering the question
  • They may be above the OP's head

Let me really stress that last point: The most popular answers are likely stated in terms that the other community members understand; not necessarily in terms that someone asking the question would understand.

It is more important to provide answers that the OP understands and validates than it is to have the "best" (popular) answer.


Anecdotally, there have been numerous times that I've actually posted answers that quickly received numerous upvotes, which I later discovered on my own to be wrong in some critical detail. The community clearly doesn't review answers as rigorously as the OP needs to. (Granted, I'm assuming the OP would have caught the error when they attempted to apply it to their application.)

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  • 4
    I do not agree. The OP is not necessarily a person that can judge the quality of an answer. In fact there are many questions of people who are inexperienced (with a certain topic or even programming overall). I've seen it multiple times that the first answer posted that seems to work is accepted without thoroughly testing the answer or evaluating the drawbacks of an approach or ignoring a much simpler/more elegant approach.
    – fabian
    Commented Jun 16, 2016 at 18:05
  • 6
    Your last point is irrelevant. Answers to questions are not just for the OP, they are for everyone else that comes after the OP that has the same problem. Just handing the OP a working solution can give you a check mark when the answer that actually details the problem and shows anyone how to fix it is the answer we really want. Commented Jun 16, 2016 at 18:05
  • 8
    Assuming the OP chooses a solution that works That's not a safe assumption to make. OP's sometimes choose solutions that don't work. the risk in keeping the selected answer pinned is simply that the another valid solution may be "better" in some way. However, a "lesser" solution is still a solution. No, the accepted answer may well not be a valid solution at all, or it might have significant problems rendering it extremely dangerous, etc.
    – Servy
    Commented Jun 16, 2016 at 18:12
  • As to your "stressed" last point, the OP has, in this situation, already evaluated the answers, and chosen to accept one, meaning their problem was solved, at least to their own satisfaction. From that point on, the sorting of answers is most relevant to all future readers who aren't the OP, as the OP already has their solution. The OP isn't harmed at all by their own selection not being pinned.
    – Servy
    Commented Jun 16, 2016 at 18:14
  • 2
    @servy you misunderstand. It's not about the OP. The OP is simply more likely representative of others who would have the same question then the up voters are.
    – svidgen
    Commented Jun 16, 2016 at 18:37
-24

I disagree with this

Answers displayed at the top of the list get more attention than answers at the bottom. On questions with lots of answers (10+), only a very small number of people read the bottom answers.

When you're the OP, you (currently) have the power to pin an answer to the top by accepting it. Most users just accept the best answer and leave it as such. I take advantage of this feature and use it to its greatest potential.

"Accepted answer rotation." Some unlucky answers never get voted on because other popular answers are shoving them out of the spotlight. I constantly revisit my questions with multiple answers and switch the accepted checkmark to a new answer each time. Every answer (of my questions) takes turns sitting at the top of its stack.

Your proposal will make it impossible to do "accepted answer rotation," so empathetic OPs can't help make Stack Overflow fairer.

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    Every answer (of my questions) takes turns sitting at the top of its stack. Sorry, that's an awful idea. Why ever would want to promote an answer that is unhelpful?
    – jpp
    Commented Aug 14, 2018 at 22:48
  • 9
    This is a perfect demonstration of exactly why this feature request is needed. I don't think I could have written a better answer to advocate for why we need this feature than this answer.
    – Servy
    Commented Aug 16, 2018 at 14:06
  • Every answer (of my questions) takes turns sitting at the top of its stack. Sorry, that's an awful idea. Why ever would want to promote an answer that is unhelpful? @jpp, instead of showing all the answers, show the answers that are actually useful.
    – Oliver
    Commented May 15, 2021 at 9:57

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