176

As per title, please call ruby "Ruby". Ruby is never called "RB" so please don't call it that. Conversation of the survey results are stunted when there's confusion about the most basic aspects of them. In ruby circles, conversations have gone along the lines of

wow - was ruby left off the survey, it's not on the graph!?

maybe it just didn't make the top n languages? ...

yeah maybe. wait, what's RB? ...

RB might be ruby? ...

what's R, then? ...

that's a language called R ...

If R is R, RB must be some language called RB - is RB some new language I don't know about, or is that meant to refer to ruby?

I think it's ruby

why isn't it called ruby, then?

There is a great deal of interesting content to discuss in the survey report, but that is overshadowed by confusion about its most basic elements.

Please refer to ruby as ruby to prevent this confusion in 2025. Thank you!

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  • 51
    Well, "Python" is labeled as "PY" there, while there are longer labels (I'm looking at you, "MicroPython"), so with a mere 50% of its letters missing, Ruby is being let off easy, imo.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jul 30 at 15:35
  • 15
    @Cerbrus good observation; the point made above holds equally (perhaps more so) for other abbreviated languages, notably python. A graph's labels should be both obvious and unambiguous, which unfortunately wasn't the case in the 2024 report. It's a small thing but disproportionately distracting when it's the top or near-top comment on every discussion about the survey.
    – stevec
    Commented Jul 30 at 15:44
  • 30
    Gah, why did you bring this to my attention, goodbye sleep. Why do tech people hate consistency so much? You write out "PowerShell" but then abbreviate Javascript to "JS" ? At least they got "Java" right instead of shouting "JAVA" like so many people do...
    – Gimby
    Commented Jul 30 at 15:50
  • 17
    RB ❌ Ruby ✔️✔️ . Commented Jul 30 at 15:52
  • 28
    What a just weird thing to do.
    – khelwood
    Commented Jul 30 at 15:56
  • 13
    or maybe the survey was put together by a marketing tech bro who doesn't understand programming.
    – MT1
    Commented Jul 30 at 16:35
  • 42
    Strongly agree with this post. Comparison with PY doesn't really hold (it's not about the percentage of letters omitted, but about the association in people's minds), because the Python community heavily uses the Py abbreviation in all kinds of contexts. As an experiment I Googled for py software and rb software. In the py case, python.org was the second match. For rb, the first ruby related match was on page 8 (it was rubyonrails.org).
    – Kelvin
    Commented Jul 30 at 17:18
  • 4
    I'm still... annoyed? disappointed? shocked? that they didn't address their severely overly-constrained categorization of a bunch of build tools as "embedded" stuff. and by how terrible the labels on a bunch of stuff in there are. it's like a bunch of money probably went into a UI redesign, but nobody checked that the visualizations of the data are all intelligible. I know people make mistakes, but c'mon.
    – starball
    Commented Jul 30 at 18:22
  • 11
    Re PY: I was looking for it in one of the sections. I quickly looked through and found only MicroPython. I concluded that I'm blind, did ctrl+f, "python", oops, nothing more. I opened meta to search for already reported bug (yes, I was certain that python should be there). I found nothing (it was a few days ago, maybe it was reported since), started drafting a Meta post, and only found "PY" mid-process, after writing a first paragraph. So no, it's also a terrific idea, even if less terrific than s/Ruby/rb/ and "heavily used".
    – STerliakov
    Commented Jul 30 at 18:44
  • 9
    @Kelvin as a Pythonista: we don't call it "py", but that's commonly used as a prefix for naming software written in Python. There's also the Python launcher for Windows which is quite literally py.exe (and a project by one of the core devs to make something similar for Linux as well). Commented Jul 30 at 21:42
  • 41
    Of course it's silly to shorten Ruby to RB. The correct space-saving way, as all the cool kids know, is 🦘🐝. Commented Jul 30 at 22:45
  • 8
    I thought Red Bull sponsored the survey :( Commented Jul 31 at 2:24
  • 24
    At long last Racoon Basic is getting the attention it deserves. Commented Jul 31 at 17:38
  • 3
    130 upvotes for this meta post. We really have specific priorities don't we :)
    – Gimby
    Commented Aug 1 at 8:32
  • 5
    ARRRRR B do be the language of the prrrrrogramming pirates.
    – xdhmoore
    Commented Aug 1 at 20:37

1 Answer 1

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At least it's on the list. Unlike XSLT, which generates far more Stack Overflow activity than some of these languages. About 4 times as much as Erlang, for example. Heaven only knows what the criteria are.

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  • 21
    Agreed. Omitting XSLT is as bad as omitting XML from the "Programming, scripting, and markup languages" category. (But this probably deserves a question of its own rather than an answer here.)
    – kjhughes
    Commented Jul 30 at 19:15
  • 52
    Because the people who put the survey together are marketeers, not programmers.
    – OrangeDog
    Commented Jul 30 at 21:09
  • 13
    If they're marketers then they should especially understand that the audience that wants to know about Ruby isn't going to call it "rb" or recognize it as such, either. The only context in which "rb" implies anything to do with Ruby, IMO, is literally the filename extension for source code files. Commented Jul 30 at 21:44
  • 1
    We should give XSLT more credit and fight for its visibility.
    – Nikolas
    Commented Jul 31 at 4:03
  • 5
    I hear you. It's just that whatever involved XSLT was usually the worst time of my life so I'm not very willing to fight for it :)
    – Gimby
    Commented Jul 31 at 7:44
  • 10
    @KarlKnechtel the audience they care about are not programmers either
    – OrangeDog
    Commented Jul 31 at 8:34
  • It's also true that many of the people who make effective use of XSLT don't think of themselves as programmers either, but that doesn't alter the fact that it's a programming language. Commented Jul 31 at 11:41
  • 2
    It's so unfair, especially considering that with apply-templates XSLT comes as close as any modern programming language to having a COME FROM statement. Commented Jul 31 at 17:42
  • @DavidConrad XSLT being non-procedural means your control-flow-based joke misses the mark. Devs lacking experience (or even curiosity) about other programming paradigms often never get over their initial ick reactions. That's unfortunate because the solutions unconventional languages offer to solving certain classes of problems are often impressively elegant and usefully pragmatic.
    – kjhughes
    Commented Jul 31 at 19:25
  • 1
    @kjhughes non-procedural is irrelevant, it's a functional programming language but it can be very hard to tell what will be invoked by apply-templates in a codebase of any size and more than a few developers. I don't know any other functional language that has such a... "feature." Commented Jul 31 at 22:48
  • @DavidConrad XSLT being functional doesn't save your joke either. You're not appreciating that a key XSLT characterization is that it's based on a powerful pattern-matching paradigm. (Another is that its raison d'etre is the transformation of XML documents.) Templates declaratively (non-procedurally) define how an input document should be transformed to an output document. apply-templates is merely a means of recursively applying the templates to a specified part of the output document. Templates represent knowledge; apply-templates brings the knowledge to bear where needed.
    – kjhughes
    Commented Jul 31 at 23:35
  • 1
    @DavidConrad XSLT is primarily a rule-based language in the tradition of SNOBOL and awk. The fact that you can't tell which rules will be fired in which order is the whole point; it's all driven by the data. That's what makes such languages well suited to handling input that can be highly variable. Commented Aug 2 at 23:17
  • 1
    @DavidConrad That's a legitimate criticism. There are ways of writing your code to reduce the problem, especially with newer versions of the language, but if a large chunk of legacy unstructured code is dumped on you to debug, it can certainly be hard to find your way around it. Mind you, I've experienced that with other languages too... Commented Sep 28 at 11:22
  • 1
    @DavidConrad But we're way off topic here. The thread is asking why XSLT isn't included in the survey, and that's surely shouldn't be because someone thinks that there are some people who don't like it? Commented Sep 28 at 11:26
  • 1
    Frankly, this thread (question) is asking not to call Ruby "RB"; this answer is unrelated to that topic (and is thus unlikely to result in the change you desire). Appropriate places to raise that would be either the question asking to review the technology choices (before May 3, 2024), on the survey announcement (while the survey was open), or as a new question asking for it to be added to next year's survey (after the survey closed).
    – Ryan M Mod
    Commented Sep 29 at 0:42

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