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I’ve been around on SO for a long time. I saw it gain its reputation for being unforgiving and unwelcoming. I saw it try to course correct. I’ve also very recently watched it strangled at the hands of AI. Struggling to stay valid.

It’s a shame because gen AI undoubtedly used this vast database of answers to train from.

However I just got a question that AI couldn’t answer closed because it was “impossible” to answer from the details given (not true). And because “debugging details” were missing (they were included).

I actually answered my own question using the information I’d posted and it doesn’t matter to me that it was closed. I’m just wondering what I’m seeing.

Now, more than ever, valid questions need to be encouraged. Especially ones that AI fail at.

Well-asked questions closed for bad reasons.. What new form of SO is this?

The post in question: Git integration is not pushing automatically in Statamic

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  • " What new form of SO is this?" - 2024 SO. Many existing answers means you have less reason to post new questions, far less reviewers and curators means that there is far more responsibility on question askers to make their question perfect right from the get-go; no missing details. Because there are now so many incoming questions, if your question is not great it'll just snow under. This site's primary function is to pop up in Google/Bing/etc.
    – Gimby
    Commented Oct 1 at 7:30

3 Answers 3

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I don't know why was this question closed, especially considering the answer that clearly shows there was a missing option in the configuration you presented in the question.

I have reopened the question.

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  • 9
    A new close vote has been cast for it being a "typo", which I also disagree with; it fails the test of "this one was resolved in a way less likely to help future readers".
    – Ryan M Mod
    Commented Sep 29 at 0:20
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    @M-- Previous close reasons were 2x"Needs debugging details", 1x"Needs details or clarity"
    – Ryan M Mod
    Commented Sep 30 at 10:38
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    I think the answer clearly shows the question didn't include all the necessary information, actually.
    – TylerH
    Commented Sep 30 at 13:29
  • 4
    @TylerH I am not an SME in the area to know whether it would be better if question had some additional details. But it did have configuration which was the cause of the problem and the answer fixed that bad configuration. In that light question did have all relevant information and closing it after if was answered was completely unnecessary.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Sep 30 at 13:39
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    @M-- They said the line was missing but they didn't include the full list, only what they thought was relevant. That's what the ellipsis above the list indicates, at least. Maybe they didn't realize that's what the ellipsis meant, though.
    – TylerH
    Commented Sep 30 at 14:32
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    @TylerH Whether they included that line or not does not matter at the end. It might have mattered initially (or maybe that line was completely missing). Anyway there were zero comments by any of the close voters that something is missing. And if you know the answer that you were in position to tell that. But again, if the only problem was missing line and this information (which have been obvious after answer was posted) then it would be easy edit adding that line instead of closing. also in context of future usefulness of the Q/A this line does not matter at all.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Sep 30 at 14:45
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    @DalijaPrasnikar "Whether they included that line or not does not matter at the end" That's not true. It's OP's responsibility to make sure all the information necessary is in the question. If they have answered their own question, they should know what information is needed. If a question is subsequently closed for needing that information, it can be reopened after the OP has added that information. We don't know if OP didn't have that line in their file at all or if they had it and it was set to the wrong value.
    – TylerH
    Commented Sep 30 at 15:35
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    Unless one knows Statamic so well that maybe they know that it's always missing unless set manually, or always present and set to false by default, etc., but that's not me. So it would be wholly inappropriate to edit a guess into the answer to try and make it on-topic, because, as I said above, that's OP's responsibility. And the correct action whenever a question lacks information that only OP can provide is to close as needs details, already answered or not.
    – TylerH
    Commented Sep 30 at 15:35
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    @TylerH If you don't know Statamic that well, then maybe closing was wrong choice as it does more harm than leaving such answered question open. Again, if someone has similar problem, then this Q/A will help and the missing line from the question is really not that important. Questions don't have to be absolutely perfect. Also you could have easily left a comment if you felt that this information really needs to be in the question.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Sep 30 at 15:44
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    @DalijaPrasnikar I don't need to know the product to read the question and the answer to know that the information given in the answer is not discernable based on information presented in the question. If I new the product well, I could potentially make the question on-topic by having the information, but that's an assumption at best, and like I said, OP's responsibility. Questions don't have to be perfect, I agree, but they do need to be clear and answerable based on the information presented. This one wasn't when I viewed it, so I voted to close it. That's all there is to it.
    – TylerH
    Commented Sep 30 at 15:46
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    I don't agree with @TylerH on closing this question, but I also don't agree with this advice: "If you don't know Statamic that well, then maybe closing was wrong choice as it does more harm than leaving such answered question open". Questions can be evaluated by non-SMEs. Commented Sep 30 at 17:12
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    @M-- Many question are closed by non SME. They are vital for maintaining the site health, however in cases where situation is not as clear then not closing is doing less harm than closing. In this case question was closed after it was answered and from the answer the problem was rather evident. In such case being SME does matter as you would have to be very certain that question is really inadequate and that it is not helpful for the future. I would even ask a SME for good reason why they think it should be closed.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Sep 30 at 17:45
  • 3
    Again, I am not for closing this one, but don't think CV'ers (at least Tyler) closed the question while in doubt. Whether they were right or not is another matter. But as we discussed before, the general advice of less harm doesn't sit with me well. In this case, I agree with your decision to reopen the question. Commented Sep 30 at 18:17
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    @M-- "When in doubt do the action that does the least harm." I don't know why is this advice so controversial for you. We have Skip in all review queues. That means if you are not certain what action you should do then the Skip is the best option. Now even if you don't land on some post through queue, you can still use that as a guidance.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Sep 30 at 18:28
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    @M-- No, I am not advising to avoid closing questions at all costs. But also there are so many really off-topic and extremely poor questions worth closing, that we don't have to spend so many time trying to close the ones where there is enough dispute. Also, each particular Q/A is different and there are many factors to consider, so I wouldn't compare this scenario with some other recent ones.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Sep 30 at 21:29
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I wish the other answer also addressed the symptom (meta question), not just the cause (closure). Let me try;

Nothing has happened to Stack Overflow. It always worked like this. If there's dispute, we handle it by presenting the case, not throwing 'shade'. If there's an error (mistakes can happen), posting to Meta is the right action. What is not appropriate is ranting about unrelated matters. For instance, what is the connection between rise of AI and the alleged erroneous closure?!

And no, we don't need to consider whether a question can be answered by LLMs or not. We evaluate the question itself, nothing more or less.

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  • Let me explain: SO is being killed by AI (that were trained by SO data, ironically). Traffic has dropped through the floor. So a question that cannot be answered by AI is especially valuable to SO because it gives it a reason for users to come back to it. Commented Oct 3 at 22:38
  • Also, I didn't throw any shade. SO had a terrible reputation for being unwelcoming, and it took many years, and a lot of effort to try and course-correct from that. It's also currently being killed by AI. Stating facts is not throwing "shade", but taking things personally is still very SO, unfortunately. Commented Oct 3 at 23:00
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    @ChuckLeButt I put 'shade' in quotations for a reason. And I am not sure if SO should be welcoming beyond its rules. Whoever mistakenly thinks SO is a help desk or a forum that should hold their hands, figure out their problems, and then solve it for them with minimal effort on their side, will think SO is a terrible place (obviously you're not one of them, but it doesn't help that you share their sentiment). Regarding AI, as I said, questions should be evaluated on their own merit (you can read more about that on MSO). And traffic (quantity) is company's objective, we are after quality. Commented Oct 3 at 23:05
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    I am not sure what do you mean by "taking things personally". I have no stakes in this. I just stated a fact: talking about unrelated matters, while having a valid case for your question to be reopened, is not helpful to you nor anyone else. That is reflected by the score of this question. If you search for other requests for reopening which were successful, you'd see most of them to be positively received. Why not this one? Cause it went off the rails, and talked about other matters (even if they're true) more than it talked about the post in question. Cheers. Commented Oct 3 at 23:11
  • Yes, the defensive tone of your responses is precisely what I'm referring to -- you're literally saying that if people find SO unfriendly, that's their fault. stackoverflow.blog/2018/04/26/… Commented Oct 7 at 16:58
  • Also, I just need to clarify something: This meta wasn't about getting a question re-opened (the question had already been resolved, and I don't need the rep). But the fact that you thought it was shows that the point has been missed (probably by more people than just by you, to be fair). The title of this meta is: "What’s happening to SO?" and that's precisely what it was about and why I discussed AI: Because it's directly relevant to the current state of SO. Commented Oct 7 at 18:55
  • From the original meta post: "I actually answered my own question using the information I’d posted and it doesn’t matter to me that it was closed. I’m just wondering what I’m seeing. Now, more than ever, valid questions need to be encouraged. Especially ones that AI fail at." Seems pretty clear to me. Commented Oct 8 at 15:56
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I actually answered my own question using the information I’d posted

It's exceedingly rare that we can take this argument at face value from the asker for questions closed as needing more information, because there's often no way we can be certain you are actually answering based on the information in the question or based on information only you have access to that you only think is present/clear in the answer

The vast majority of the time when I see a question I think needs more details get answered by OP, the solution was about something that wasn't discussed in the question (e.g. some typo or mistake outside the scope of the question itself). The rest of the time, it is because the question didn't include all the necessary information, which leads me to this paragraph:

However I just got a question closed because it was “impossible” to answer from the details given (not true).

No, that is true. Given your answer, which is that STATAMIC_GIT_PUSH needs to be set to true, there's no way from the question we can know that that's the problem. Why? Because you didn't include that setting/value pair in the question. So how can we know that that property is set to the wrong value? Answer: We can't. That's why I voted to close as needs details/MRE.

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    But it was missing. How exactly can one show the configuration they have with something missing from it? Shouldn't you show the full config without that line, like OP did?
    – VLAZ
    Commented Sep 30 at 15:40
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    @VLAZ OP didn't indicate that they showed the whole file. They indicated they showed only part (presumably, what they thought was relevant), by including an ellipsis above the config lines. An ellipsis before or after a section of content indicates "more content exists here but it's being excluded for relevancy purposes".
    – TylerH
    Commented Sep 30 at 15:41
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    OK, but it seems you're claiming the question is unclear because it's not definitely showing the problem...which it cannot. Because the line was missing. In what way would the question be made clearer? By explicitly saying "I am missing <some config>" which is also the answer? Or by including every single config value of which there may be hundreds, it not thousands? The way I read it, the question had all the information needed. it showed the STATAMIC_* settings. And one was needed but not there. I can't really see how the question can be made more clear than it currently is.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Sep 30 at 15:50
  • @VLAZ The question could be made clearer by OP clarifying whether the lines of code they showed from their config file are all the contents or just some. If OP says "here is my full file contents", then it would be clear that there is a missing value to someone who knows the requirements for doing what OP wanted to do. Since OP didn't say that, but said (implicitly) "here are some of the file contents", we are left to wonder whether the line was missing or the line was present and set to false.
    – TylerH
    Commented Sep 30 at 17:43
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    There is virtually no difference between the line missing or being there and being set to false. Both have the exact same solution: have the key set to true. Given the answer, it was missing. Even then, seems like the readily available information should have been edited to the question, rather than the question closed, brought to meta, reopened, and now discussed at length hugely disproportionate to what would have taken for an edit.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Sep 30 at 17:50
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    Having now made the edit I noticed that the ellipsis was most likely there for formatting reasons. Without it, the code doesn't show as a code block. Probably because it's nested in a bulletpoint list and uses indentation for the code block formatting. I corrected the markdown.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Sep 30 at 17:54
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    @VLAZ You are correct. I included all the STATAMIC_* env variables. It seems odd to me that someone would assume otherwise given that only one of them related to Statamic and Git. Commented Oct 3 at 22:50
  • @VLAZ And you're right that the ellipses was for formatting. (But obviously I didn't include other Laravel env vars -- which would be present in any Statamic project -- so the ellipses could have also represented them and nothing would be different.) Commented Oct 3 at 22:51

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