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Painfully often when I click open a recent Staging Ground post, I am able to view it etc but not to actually commit a review action because it is locked.

This seems like an odd design. Why does this review mechanism require exclusive access? And if it really does, how long does a post need to remain locked? I have reloaded pages while waiting for the lock to go away and it seems to take minutes rather than seconds.

After having spent time looking at a post and deciding on a verdict, it is frustrating and annoying to be rejected at the final step. If locking cannot be avoided, make it warn before you commit time to the review task.

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    The locks make a bit of sense - a user might want to do something without interference. For example editing. One of the most frustrating things on main is desperately trying to edit something only to get interrupted from other editors. With that said, the locks on the shared review items are also annoying. It works better in regular review queues where people don't choose what to look at.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Jun 10 at 10:10
  • Ah...!, alright, I was wondering indeed if SG posts would be locked when opening one and spending some time reviewing one before deciding for an action. But the behaviour should be documented, as I see pro's and con's for locking, or reviewers might rush reading as quick as possible and deciding as quick as possible on which action to submit, "afraid" that some other reviewer might be ready to submit an action before them. Knowing that a post is locked for say 2 min gives at least 2 min the time to take some action carefully without "rushing".
    – chivracq
    Commented Jun 10 at 11:32
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    I mostly agree, although re: "make it warn before you commit time to the review task." It sort of does warn you already by the "Locked" status tag at the top-left of the question. The problem is that that's just not particularly obvious. Maybe questions in the locked status should have the review options greyed out for other users when they load the page?
    – TylerH
    Commented Jun 10 at 13:59
  • "I have reloaded pages while waiting for the lock to go away and it seems to take minutes rather than seconds." My understanding is that It's a resource lock so a user requests the resource (the review) and checks out the lock against it. They hold the lock until they release the resource. This could be as long as the reviewer needs and is not a set timer.
    – Henry Ecker Mod
    Commented Jun 10 at 14:09
  • @HenryEcker IIRC the lock is not for an indefinite period though. If a reviewer just keeps a post open the lock will expire after some time. The lock is only renewed if the reviewer has some activity on the page like typing in a comment (no need to submit), editing, etc. Commented Jun 10 at 14:19
  • Standard times for such locks are in the 3-5 minute range, for a resource of this rough level of complexity. Hopefully the locks on SG are not any longer than that.
    – TylerH
    Commented Jun 10 at 14:24
  • Note that I think the timer should reset if the user holding the lock reloads the page. Which page are you using that links you to many questions with the review lock? The stackoverflow.com/staging-ground list, the top questions page or something else?
    – dan1st
    Commented Jun 10 at 16:57
  • @dan1st Typically I bumped into them simply from the site's start page. I guess it's kind of natural that new SG posts on the front page will quickly attract the attention of multiple reviewers occasionally; but all the more reason then to try to make the experience smooth. We hardly want users to learn to shy away from them to avoid wasting effort.
    – tripleee
    Commented Jun 11 at 3:43
  • @tripleee I guess the best option for this is to just not show locked posts on the start page and sinilar pages just as it's done with the the /staging-ground question list IIRC.
    – dan1st
    Commented Jun 11 at 4:39
  • That's a partial remedy at best; I reload the page and scroll down, occasionally opening interesting content in a new tab. By the time I reach a Staging Ground post, it could be 30 minutes old, or completely fresh.
    – tripleee
    Commented Jun 11 at 4:50
  • @dan1st I've happened on locked posts even from the staging ground list. It doesn't show locked posts on any of the pages when loaded. When you get to them other users might have gained a lock on the post by that time. Commented Jun 11 at 5:09
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    Yes but that probably doesn't happen that often compared to when posts in review are included in the list and even that can probably be reduced by not slowing the same posts to that many reviewers (distributing the posts differently).
    – dan1st
    Commented Jun 11 at 5:13

2 Answers 2

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Here is how the locking system was designed when I worked on it (and I doubt that anything major has changed since, for reasons described below, but someone currently on the team is welcome to give confirmation/update):

  1. Ideally, a user will not be shown a post in a question listing, SG listing, or be directed to a post from redirect after action on another post, if the new post is locked.
  2. Posts are locked when a user opens the post, and no one else has it locked
  3. Locks are time-bound (5 minutes? 10? Don't quite remember). So if the user does nothing on the post in that amount of time, the lock passively expires (with no notice to the user [too expensive])
  4. If a user leaves a post through an active SG action during this time (back to listing, perform an action that leaves the post, skip) then the lock is proactively cleared

[As a side note, a best-practice when reviewing should be to prefer using the [Return to questions] button to go back to the listing over clicking on the SG link or using browser [back]. The button will clear your lock on it, the other methods won't.]

This works similarly to the Review Queues lock, except that in SG things it is much easier for a person to end up on a locked post than in Review Queues. RQ have no listings, you are just sent to a post. And while you are reviewing it, it is locked for being given to other users, you have to work hard to get direct access to posts otherwise (like going through queue history and direct clicking).

With SG, the common way to land on a locked post is:

  1. User1 opens up the /questions page or SG home page, which includes a link to one or more SG posts.
  2. User1 does something other than opening one of the SG posts.
  3. In the meantime, User2 opens of those posts (not yet locked), through a listing or redirect. Post locks for User2.
  4. User1 then clicks on a link in their open listing (and their interface does not inform them that it is already locked, as keeping that in sync across all users and listings was deemed [too expensive]).
  5. The SG question opens locked for User1 (and will stay with the locked icon there, even if the User2 lock is lost, as handling that case was [too expensive]).

A variation on this theme:

  1. User1 loads an SG post
  2. User1 then proceeds to spent 20 minutes crafting a post on Meta, spending 17 of these minutes working on getting a screenshot with a hand-drawn circle that looks casually messy, and says "I have better things to do with my time than draw clear visual indicators on a screenshot, so I just did this one super quickly, thank me later", but has to keep starting over because their penchant for exactness makes it really hard to make a messy arrow. In the end, they have to resort to using their non-dominant hand to draw the circle and arrow, while blindfolded (they kept cheating when just keeping their eyes closed).
  3. In the meantime, the post is passively unlocked (cache entry times out). The indicator on User1's screen doesn't update to indicate this ([too expensive]).
  4. After the lock expired, but before User1 finished their Meta post, User2 arrives on the SG post (redirected there, after the lock was cleared). It locks for them.
  5. While the lock is intact for User2, User1 now (finally) attempts to perform an action on the SG post that they had opened (which does not say locked - as it would if they reloaded it - implying that they hold a lock). And they are blocked on the server-side validation due to User2's lock.
  6. User1 goes on to another post in SG, but is so frustrated by the experience of having wasted 2 minutes on their blocked review, decide to post on Meta about it (return to step 2, above).

Why does this review mechanism require exclusive access?

The idea behind it was that we (including myself in the we in this instance, even though no longer applicable) were asking reviewers to invest time in their review, and designed a workflow that required input from them - a comment, potentially an edit - in order to fulfil their role in the best way. And at the same time, were introducing a listing component that was designed to be flexible and offered users many ways to load/sort/filter listings of posts. But also opened up the possibility of much more frequent instances of multiple reviewers hitting one post at the same time. So having some sort of locking was considered a must. With the goal of it working unnoticed as much as possible (blocking redirects to locked posts, not showing locked posts in listings).

Hope that this helps to give some context. Up to current staff to talk about how this might change moving forward.


[too expensive] - anything above tagged with this are items that we considered building, but elected to not build at the time, due to the cost of building it time-wise relative to the value of moving on to other things.

I was one of the main decision-makers at the time as to what we would include in the initial locking mechanism.

The general driving principle was YAGNI, and not wanting to spend time on specific edge cases before knowing which ones would actively cause pain at scale. Pain principally defined as a user wasting time in any way (reviewing a post that they thought was unlocked) or running into things like edit collisions.

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  • re design#1, does SG listing auto refresh? I haven't seen it do that for me. not that I think that would necessarily be a good idea. re design#4, why not include events like page unload?... honest criticism: doesn't seem like great design to recommend the user to use their general browser features in a certain way to accommodate for something the system (IIUC) could accommodate for.
    – starball
    Commented Jun 13 at 6:38
  • @starball auto-refresh of sg listing was also a "let's see if we need it after launch" thing. I actually remember writing some code to hook up it up to the necessary pipes, etc, and think that we ran into some initial issue and decided not to pursue it more (back in early 2023). Commented Jun 13 at 6:57
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    @starball including page-unload would be nice to add. And I agree with your criticism. We knew it was less than ideal, but work on SG was a constant balancing act of moving forward with the core functionality as quickly as we could, while responding to feedback from betas in a meaningful way, and also planning for longer term. So yeah, less than ideal, but was one of those quick decisions that we had to make (and overall, I think that the project benefited much more from the quick process we had, versus some things that could have been done better and hopefully can be improved). Commented Jun 13 at 7:00
  • Thanks for the background. I'm hoping someone from the current team could step forward and say something, still (ideally "we see how this sucks; let's make some changes". For example, voting as acceptable should not be blocked on whatever action somebody else takes while I take a look. Or then at least make it more obvious that you should not spend time on the post up front.)
    – tripleee
    Commented Jun 13 at 7:34
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    The arrow scenario is really compelling, I have to say.
    – tripleee
    Commented Jun 13 at 7:39
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We deployed a change that hopefully addresses the issue which drastically reduces the likelihood of getting post locked posts.

The short answer is we pull from a list of eligible Staging Ground questions with the New or Re-evaluate statuses, check for post locks then filter them out on each page refresh.

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