21

I'll periodically run into answers along the line of

The problem might be X.

or

Did you try y?

As an example, I recently encountered the following answer in the VLQ queue:

You might be suffering for (one kind of) data drift ([Wiki], [blog post]), especially as you do some kind of under/oversampling.

Does the production data for X or y have the same distribution as your test data ?

This is arguably not the best example of what I'm referring to, but I'll periodically encounter answers speculating on what the problem might be. This one is probably one of the better posts I've seen along those lines, but I'll often see answers that are obviously little more than guesses.

Some of these read more like comments than actual answers:

Have you tried installing Python 3.7.1?

Another example (which I'm not able to locate) simply asks whether the OP installed SQL Server and offered the download link if they hadn't.

Are these considered NAA? What's the proper moderation action for them?

8
  • 16
    It's impossible to give a hard "yes" or "no" answer to this. This completely depends on the situation. Sometimes, a guess is as good as you're gonna get. Imo, they're generally an attempt to answer, albeit a poor one, so downvote, not flag.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Apr 25 at 13:43
  • 1
    I find the "Have you tried ..." actually much better as an answer than the "Does the production data ...". The former could actually solve the problem. The latter is just a clarification of the problem. Commented Apr 25 at 14:08
  • 2
    Related: Should we avoid rhetorical questions in answers?
    – Andrew T.
    Commented Apr 25 at 14:51
  • 1
    "Did you try y?" could be a rhetorical question (not an actual question, but meaning "Try y:"), a sort of forum behaviour. Commented Apr 26 at 0:11
  • I just realised that this is covered in the canonical: Answers phrased as suggestions. Answers that say "Maybe you should try X" or "I don't know if this will work, but..." are still answers. Instead of flagging them, edit them to remove the uncertainty." Commented Apr 26 at 7:57
  • @Cuzy In my opinion, new users not being able to write comments is one of the silliest policies of StackOverflow. New users might well have something important to contribute that is better expressed as a comment than as an answer. I've run into the situation myself once or twice when I've joined a new community. Commented Apr 26 at 8:58
  • @TeemuLeisti it would be silly if the intentions of a new signee could be predetermined. But unfortunately, debilitating anti-spam measures are necessary. Not silly, just really unfortunate.
    – Gimby
    Commented Apr 26 at 9:28
  • @Gimby Oh, OK, so it's about spam. Another example of bad actors making life more difficult for everyone. Commented Apr 26 at 9:46

5 Answers 5

14

Problems go into the question box. Solutions go into the answer box.

  • Does an "answer" ask whether they checked a specific problem?
    That is not an actual answer.

  • Does an "answer" ask whether they checked a specific solution?
    That is an actual answer.

  • Does an "answer" ask whether they checked a specific problem and solution for that?
    That is an actual answer.

Only NAA flag an "answer" that is not actually an answer.
However, being an actual answer is a low bar: consider voting on the answer if the solution is badly presented, and consider voting on the question if it lacks information needed for clear answers.

9
  • 7
    "Does an 'answer' ask whether they checked a specific problem?" — I don't think I understand what you mean by "checking a specific problem".
    – M. Justin
    Commented Apr 25 at 15:40
  • 1
    "Problems go into the question box. Solutions go into the answer box." - that's probably typically true, but I don't see why it is necessarily the case. A question truly might just be asking what causes an error to happen and not seeking any advice on how to solve the error whatsoever.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Apr 25 at 15:55
  • 2
    @M.Justin Consider the example from the question: "Does the production data for X or y have the same distribution as your test data ?" This is a problem that someone can check by plotting and comparing the two data sets, without actually solving anything directly. Commented Apr 25 at 15:56
  • So what do you propose for (for example) a question which is diagnosing a difficult library bug, or a network connectivity issue? Every single debugging comment (did you check that variable, does it go there next) goes in the answer box? That's ridiculous. Once you have an actual "this is the reason why" or even "this is a possible issue that has been seen" then you could write an answer, otherwise it's just pure speculation and belongs in comments. Commented Apr 25 at 23:00
  • 1
    @Charlieface If a question requires a ton of debugging comments, I suggest to close the question as needing debugging details. Not to mention that none of your examples are solutions, so I don’t see what makes you think they should go on the answer Box. Commented Apr 26 at 5:47
  • 2
    Asking if they tried a specific solution is a comment, not an answer. A speculative answer is entirely possible, but it should be framed and phrased as an answer, not a "did you try X", because it is unclear if you intend that as a solution, or as a troubleshooting step (i.e. asking for clarification). Commented Apr 26 at 6:04
  • @MisterMiyagi I disagree with this. It is clear that this hypothetical OP needs help even figuring out what the problem IS (which is often enough very close to getting a solution). OP will not get the help they need if a question is closed because they lacked the experience to properly debug to pinpoint their problem.
    – kutschkem
    Commented Apr 26 at 7:28
  • @kutschkem If an OP does not know what problem they should ask about, SO is not the right place to find that out. The OP needing help does not change what questions are covered on SO. Commented Apr 26 at 7:54
  • 1
    @Charlieface The way I read this answer, MisterMiyagi is suggesting all those debugging comments belong as comments, not answers.
    – TylerH
    Commented Apr 29 at 13:44
14

If you pretend the answer isn't speculative - if you rewrite it in your mind so that it is definitively stating what the problem is - then is it an attempt at fully answering the question (whether correctly or otherwise)? If not - for instance, if the question asks how to fix an error and the "answer" just speculates about some factor that might be responsible for the error appearing without hinting at how to fix it - then perhaps it's better understood as a request for clarification than as an answer.

In that case, you might want to flag it with a mod flag, suggesting that it either be deleted or maybe converted to a comment (if you think it's valuable to keep around in some form). If it's a non-answer and it's really obvious without any context and without reading the question that it's a non-answer, you could flag it as Not An Answer, but this is probably going to be very unusual; NAA has a very narrow definition on Stack Overflow and these kind of suggestions are going to tend to look like they could be interpreted as valid answers to some question.

On the other hand, if the answer is proposing what is potentially a full answer to the question, but is framing that otherwise complete answer as speculative and uncertain, then it probably shouldn't be deleted as a non-answer. (This applies whether the uncertainty is conveyed by way of framing the answer as a question or in some other way. Moderation decisions should be made on the substance of what a post says and not trivial details about its form; semantic pedantry like "this is not an answer because it ends with a question mark" is in my opinion never sufficient reason to delete a post.)

But in that situation: why is the answer merely speculative? Normally, as an answerer, you would have enough information in the question to determine if your answer works, and indeed you would probably test your answer and confirm it works before posting it; why hasn't the answerer done that?

If the answer is speculative because the answerer couldn't test it because the asker did a bad job of providing enough detail in their question, then the question probably deserves to be downvoted and closed as Needs debugging details or Needs details or clarity. Secondarily, maybe you'll also want to comment on the question and/or downvote the answer, but the primary problem is that there's something fundamentally wrong with the question.

If the question is just fine and the answer is speculative because the answerer simply couldn't be bothered to test it, then that's irritatingly lazy and I'd say that almost always means it's a bad answer in its current form. You might want to simply downvote such an answer and move on, or maybe leave a comment pointing out that it's unhelpful for an answer to be speculative and that the author ought to have tested it. Alternatively, you could determine yourself whether the answer works; if it does, you can edit it to make it non-speculative, and if it doesn't, you can downvote and explain why it's broken. You'll need to use your own judgement about which of these approaches is most useful to future readers. (A speculative answer that's also bad for orthogonal reasons and is posted on a question that already has other good answers should probably just be downvoted, maybe with an accompanying comment, and isn't worth editing. An answer that actually proposes a good, correct solution to the problem asked about, on a question that doesn't have other answers, should probably be edited to be non-speculative.)

Finally, the answer might be speculative because the answerer couldn't test it for reasons that the asker couldn't reasonably have avoided - e.g. perhaps the answer speculates about some possible detail of the asker's environment that wasn't mentioned in the question because it would've been unreasonable for the asker to even realise it was relevant. (Sometimes, if you knew some config setting or other environment detail was relevant, you would have no reason to ask your question in the first place, because the solution would be obvious. Such questions are in effect asking where to look to find the cause of the problem, and wouldn't make sense at all if they included in the question body what the asker found after they looked in the right place.)

Opinions on how to moderate this final category of questions are going to be diverse; some users will dispute that this category exists at all, and say that questions like this should simply be closed as Needs debugging details. I disagree; I think such questions are okay in principle, and having multiple answers posted under them suggesting possible causes and/or solutions is also okay in principle. In order to be useful, though, such answers should still be things that would work in some circumstances, and usually it will be ideal for them to explain what those circumstances are, why they cause the problem, and why any solution in the answer would help. You'll want to judge whether such an answer is potentially correct and whether it's sufficiently detailed and vote on it accordingly.

Finally, sometimes an answer will just arbitrarily suggest trying something that seems wildly unlikely to be useful, and will not justify the suggestion at all (e.g. suggesting upgrading Python on a question where you see absolutely no reason why the Python version would be relevant in any way at all). If that's the situation, then, regardless of what kind of question it's posted on, I'd suggest downvoting it and commenting to state that you see no reason why this would help - but I still wouldn't flag such an answer as NAA. It's still an attempt at answering, just a terrible one.

1
  • Your 2nd last category brings to mind a recent squabble. A recent question could be easily understood and answered by any reasonable (and proficient) person. The Q was quickly DV'd and closed (for poor reasons I've politely and honestly explained on Meta in the past, only to find those submissions DV'd and purged by powerful entities.) You are expressing ideals that aren't borne out by many practical instances. My reaction has become, "It's the internet. What can one expect?" Where's the "SO Court of Appeal?" Raising a red flag over an (seemingly) unjust red flag merely gets one flamed.
    – Fe2O3
    Commented Apr 26 at 5:05
5

I agree with Cerbrus' comment that there's no hard "yes" or "no" that can be applied in every single situation, but I lean toward "yes, these are considered NAA", at least for the kind of post in your examples. It should not be difficult to determine whether a given post is an answer or a question.

If you post an answer or end an answer with a question, it signals that you are requesting clarification on some detail(s), and requests for clarification belong in the comments under the question, not in the answers.

Posting an answer you suspect might be right, but can't be sure of unless you get more details from the OP is a nasty FGITW symptom. Get clarification first (or close the question as "needs details" if it's bad enough) and then answer the question.

As for what action others should take, I would suggest flagging as NAA, downvoting, leaving a comment asking for clarification on whether the post is a question or an answer, or any combination of the above. If you want to give them the benefit of the doubt, leave a comment and hold off on flagging.

3
  • 5
    It isn't just fast answers that are phrased like this. I commonly see late answers like "I had this problem too and I did X. Maybe that will solve your problem too?" Phrasing it as a question indicates that they aren't sure that it solves the problem in all cases, but it isn't in any way asking for clarification. Commented Apr 25 at 17:05
  • @StephenOstermiller No one can be sure their answer will solve the problem "in all cases", but that's not what answers are for. Answers are for solving the case presented by the question asker. And they should be sure that it will solve the problem in OP's case.
    – TylerH
    Commented Apr 29 at 13:39
  • ^ That, by the way, is why we should discourage (read: downvote, and probably delete many of them) all those "I had this problem too" answers that appear by the literal dozens on common IDE or error questions that range from everything to "delete your cached files" to "uninstall and reinstall" to "update your version!" and beyond. Such answers are always poorly-researched (if they are researched at all) guesses that miss whatever the real cause of the problem is... we don't need 30 different ways to nuke a problem from orbit; one nuke will always do.
    – TylerH
    Commented Apr 29 at 13:40
5

And an answer "Have you tried installing Python 3.7.1?" is at worst a random guess that should have been at most a comment. At best it's equivalent to saying "Using Python 3.7.1 might solve the problem".

The latter phrasing has the form of an answer, but still conveys uncertainty like the original. This change would be an appropriate edit for an editor who also doesn't know the right answer based on the question.

This avoids creating false hope for future readers of this answer. If someone says "Python 3.7.1 will solve the problem", they might waste extra time trying because they think it should work. If someone merely thinks it might be worth trying, that's useful but if it doesn't work, it's probably because that wasn't the answer, not because they missed something when trying to follow the answer.

If you do know the right answer, you can firm up guesswork and speculation in an answer into simple statements of fact (and note in the changelog that this is intentional because you know the statements are correct.)

I strongly dislike the suggestion to turn speculative answers into definitive statements. You can vote down (or up) based on the guess being wrong if you know that's the case. (And perhaps leave a comment).

You can edit the phrasing into the form of an answer (no question mark) while still keeping weasel words and uncertainty.

2
  • 1
    Uncertainty and weasel words don't make it not-an-answer. It is still an attempt to answer the question and it wouldn't be appropriate to flag it for deletion. Such answers are not high quality and you can vote appropriately or ask for more information in a comment. Commented Apr 25 at 23:14
  • 1
    @StephenOstermiller: It's not a good answer, but if the guess is actually correct, someone who knows that can later edit to firm it up. It depends on the details of the question and answer; the opening sentence of this answer points out that some guesses shouldn't have been posted as answers at all. (I posted this meta answer primarily to disagree with yours. I think there's room for reasonable people to disagree on this, as I can see some merit to what you're saying, but overall I think the downside is worse than the upside.) Commented Apr 25 at 23:26
4

These are generally attempts at solving the users problem and should not be flagged as not-an-answer. Their helpfulness can be gauged by votes.

Phrasing an answer as a question is less than ideal. You could edit them like this:

  • "Have you tried Python 3.7.1?" -> "Python 3.7.1 will solve this issue."
  • "Try adding quotes around the variable X." -> "The problem is that you don't have all the quotes you need, add quotes around X."

These are different than similarly phrased non-answers:

  • "Do you get this error in situation X?" - asking for clarification
  • "Have you asked for technical support?" - doesn't actually answer anything
  • "Have you looked at this tutorial?" - Link-only
6
  • 8
    IMO the suggestion of editing an answer like "Have you tried Python 3.7.1?" to "Python 3.7.1 will solve this issue." here needs heavy caveating. You should only make an edit like that if you're confident that it's true (or, I suppose, if the answerer has somehow indicated - e.g. in a comment - that they are confident it's true and intended to express that). Otherwise you're replacing an answer that comes across (probably by intent) as speculative and uncertain with one that authoritatively makes definitive claims the original author probably isn't sure are true.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Apr 25 at 15:58
  • 5
    I disagree. Speculation and uncertainty don't belong in the answer box. Comments and votes can be used to confirm or dispute whether the answers are correct. Couching language in the answer isn't helpful. Commented Apr 25 at 16:02
  • 8
    "Speculation and uncertainty don't belong in the answer box" - well then I'd say that "Have you tried Python 3.7.1?" is not an answer and should be deleted as NAA, contrary to what you say here; I don't see how you can have it both ways. If an author frames their answer as a speculative and uncertain suggestion, and you as a reader/editor are also not sure that it will work, then I don't see how turning their answer into a definitive (and quite possibly entirely false) statement that the solution will work can possibly be the right thing to do.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Apr 25 at 16:06
  • 3
    Changing "Have you tried Python 3.7.1?" to "Using Python 3.7.1 can solve the problem in certain cases / circumstances" would be one way to state it with less confidence compared to "Python 3.7.1 will solve this issue." Commented Apr 25 at 16:09
  • @AbdulAzizBarkat: Or if you're not sure that the Python version is relevant at all for the kind of problem in the question, you could say "Using Python 3.7.1 might solve the problem". Then it's still an "I think this might work" answer phrased in the form of an answer instead of a question. That could be an appropriate edit for an editor who also doesn't know the answer to the actual question. Commented Apr 25 at 21:29
  • In either case, a comment asking for citations or evidence as to why the answerer is making that suggestion is warranted, so that others who find the answer can be sure that the answer is, in either state, a completely unsubstantiated guess.
    – TylerH
    Commented Apr 29 at 13:42

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .