9

Regarding How to word wrap in SQL Server Management Studio.

Yesterday I voted to close it as off-topic. My reasoning was that a database administration tool's query editor isn't a programming tool. It was ultimately closed as off-topic, but I noticed today that it had been reopened. Given the community disagreement on the suitability of this question for the site, I wanted to open it up for more discussion here.

I do agree that SQL queries are on-topic here, but it seems to me that the query editor in an Server Admin tool doesn't quite meet the bar as a "programming tool". The tag-wiki says, "Use this tag for questions about SSMS features that are relevant for programming", but I'm not familiar with the tool and don't know what those might be.

Is the SSMS query editor on-topic as it related to this question? Why or why-not?

10
  • 8
    It is as on-topic as a question about an IDE for, say, CSS is. CSS is used by designers to chose colors and font attributes and layout and a number of other things the developers may or may not do on a frequent basis. Is it "relevant for programming"? Sure, if you squint. Personally, I think a question about word-wrapping in any IDE should be off-topic, but luckily I don't make the rules. Commented Apr 2 at 22:41
  • 14
    For what it's worth, T-SQL is Turing-complete; but even if it wasn't, for validation, verification and certification purposes, I consider it to be as valid, critical and essential as any other code. In other words, SQL programming is real programming, and SSMS is a real programming editor. Commented Apr 2 at 23:25
  • 1
    @HereticMonkey Funny you should say "if you squint" as I almost used the same wording my question ;-) Commented Apr 2 at 23:42
  • 1
    I say it's perfectly legit. (though, coming from the mouth of one who mains the VS Code tag, take my words here with a grain of salt. though it's nice to see others agree with me)
    – starball
    Commented Apr 3 at 6:28
  • 1
    "Use this tag for questions about SSMS features that are relevant for programming" Eh, I'm not sure I really agree with that. Other IDE (like) applications allow for non-programming related questions, as IDEs are tools that programmers use frequently, so I don't see why SSMS should be any different. I would likely answer that question, and certainly wouldn't VTC it (apart from to dupe hammer), and I doubt the other users who are active in SQL Server related tags would VTC it either. I'm minded to change that excerpt
    – Thom A
    Commented Apr 3 at 8:10
  • 3
    For transparency, I have updated the excerpt to reflect what I feel I and other SMEs are likely to think [ssms] should be used for. This removes the caveat for it being about programming, and denotes that the tag shouldn't be used to ask about T-SQL/SQL Server (as tagging [ssms] for your data engine is like tagging [visual-studio] for your programming language).
    – Thom A
    Commented Apr 3 at 8:16
  • 1
    Ask two people and you'll probably get a yes and a no. It all depends on how you interpret the badly written rules surrounding this subject. Some people take it seriously that a question must be a programming problem (because the help center says so, quite poorly). Some people don't (because the close reason is written in a way that allows you to interpret it any way you want). Apparently you take even another approach and don't consider this is a programming tool. I respect your opinion, but since Stack Overflow allows SQL questions... it kind of comes with the territory.
    – Gimby
    Commented Apr 3 at 9:12
  • 2
    Thanks for the feedback everyone - I'm convinced! Commented Apr 3 at 12:34
  • 2
    One thing you may want to consider is the advisability of giving the benefit of the doubt if it's an edge case. We should be looking for reasons to keep questions open, not close them. There are plenty of questions asked every second of every day that are unsalvageable with any reasonable amount of effort, and if we're going to expend energy to close questions there are plenty of those to use it on. Commented Apr 3 at 14:03
  • 2
    @JaredSmith I do agree with that, and I feel that I usually do try to "squint" to see the programming side of questions whenever possible. In this case it was just a lack of familiarity with the tool more than anything. Keep in mind that the question had just received a NATO that wasn't great (now deleted, probably due to the Meta-effect), so that's always a good reason to at least consider whether a question is on-topic and likely to receive good answers in the future. In this case, I (and two other voters) made the wrong call. Commented Apr 3 at 15:04

2 Answers 2

45

My reasoning was that a database administration tool's query editor isn't a programming tool

Well, that does a great disservice to SQL Server Management Studio. Microsoft states on its site:

SQL Server Management Studio (SSMS) is an integrated environment for managing any SQL infrastructure. Use SSMS to access, configure, manage, administer, and develop all components of SQL Server, Azure SQL Database, Azure SQL Managed Instance, SQL Server on Azure VM, and Azure Synapse Analytics. SSMS provides a single comprehensive utility that combines a broad group of graphical tools with many rich script editors to provide access to SQL Server for developers and database administrators of all skill levels.

And I don't think they are bragging here.

SSMS is the go-to tool (and basically installed by default) when you're developing, testing and/or tuning code or scripts that involve SQL Server. And while Visual Studio, Visual Studio Code and Rider to name a few, all have integration with SQL Server, I always find myself ending up on SSMS, because I find it much better suited for database-centric development than anything else. And that has been the case for at least since 2005.

Tools used by programmers in a development context are on-topic and by that definition configuring its editor to improve your development workflow is on-topic as well. Casting close-votes of the type "not about programming" is the wrong vote.

4
  • According to MS own words, SSMS is for managing the SQL infrastructure. Their non-exhaustive list even has "develop" as a tacked. The tool itself is not on topic. The "development" part of it could be on topic. The "access, configure, manage, administer" components/tasks are not.
    – Braiam
    Commented Apr 4 at 14:48
  • 3
    @Braiam if the tool is one that is valid for programming tasks, a question about how to configure the tool, even in a context that isn't programming, is still useful to users using it for programming tasks. word-wrap is certainly one such setting.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Apr 4 at 14:50
  • Do you understand the logical conclusion of your argument @KevinB ? Anything that a developer touches becomes on topic irrespective of the use that the developer has of the tool: including coffee machines. You are even removing the "primarily used by developers" which is still too wide. The topic scope needs to be narrower for the sanity of the site, not ever encompassing. I recommend reading "programming on a boat" to understand why your argument is dangerous: because it will inevitably lead towards that result.
    – Braiam
    Commented Apr 5 at 16:02
  • 2
    @Braiam yes, i do. I don't see a problem with useful content that is possibly useful to developers existing here.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Apr 5 at 16:25
12

Given that SQL queries are on-topic here, and questions that are about editors for on-topic topics are on-topic here, my vote is that the question is on-topic. Having different standards for whether a language is on-topic enough for a corresponding editor to be on-topic is not necessary. Either a topic is on-topic or not. I would argue that, despite the tag wiki guidance, the question is relevant to programming because the question is about the query editor for SQL queries, which are on-topic.

Full disclosure: I am actually the reviewer who left a Leave closed review on that item, but if I recall correctly, I might have left the question closed for Needs details or clarity rather than Original close reasons were not resolved/Not suitable for this site.

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .