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I asked a question 8 years ago, and over 6 years it received 91 upvotes. Then two years ago the question was closed for being opinion-based. I don't agree that it is, but that's not my issue. I do agree that the question and many of its answers are outdated by now.

What bothers me is that the close message invites me to take one of two actions: edit the question or delete it, and I'm not sure what I should do here. I can certainly edit the question, including all the insights I have on the issue now (8 years later), which may even return it to an acceptable question for SO. However it would mean that all the answers (top one with 42 upvotes) do not make sense anymore.

I guess deleting the question would also be a shame, since (considering how many people found it useful), it does contain useful information.

So I would love to hear what would be the best step for me to take?

close message

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  • 14
    I don't think you have to do anything. Closed questions can still be useful, either for the information within, or as a signpost to something else. If the material is useful don't delete it. Edits are fine in general but, as you say, you don't want to invalidate an answer.
    – halfer
    Commented Mar 8 at 10:20
  • (By the by, I wonder if the close reason should have been "Recommendations" rather than Opinion Based, but that may not be terribly important).
    – halfer
    Commented Mar 8 at 10:22
  • 1
    @halfer Technically, recommendation questions are primarily based on opinions. The separate close reason is simply so authors are directed to more specific resources in that case.
    – gparyani
    Commented Mar 8 at 10:48
  • @SecurityHound The close panel has actions for "Edit question" and "Delete question" prominently at the bottom. Commented Mar 8 at 13:06
  • 1
    @MisterMiyagi - As a community user voting to close the question, indeed, but the close message isn’t suggesting the question be deleted. I now see there is an option to delete the question but isn’t that option always displayed? Commented Mar 8 at 14:10
  • 1
    Agree on the close reason. Instead, it's not a programming problem. Like. At all. It is instead an invitation for discussion (for which there is now a dedicated feature) and maybe even a cleverly shrouded way to ask for library recommendations.
    – Gimby
    Commented Mar 8 at 15:14
  • 4
    Don't confuse concepts. Close reasons are mostly there as a result of experience and to reduce the garbage early on. However, it's certainly possible that, for example, opinion-based questions turn out to be excellent questions with excellent answers. If you think it's a good question, then your opinion counts and you should leave the question unchanged. If enough folks of sufficient rep decide its presence is intolerable then they can vote to delete it. Commented Mar 8 at 15:20
  • 3
    It comes across to me that "why doesn't X exist?" in this case is really just a slightly obscured way of asking to find an X. So rather than opinion-based, I would have voted to close as seeking resources. Commented Mar 8 at 21:10
  • 2
    The Meta effect worked and the question is now open
    – ㅤㅤㅤ
    Commented Mar 9 at 11:52
  • 4
    And now closed again.
    – topsail
    Commented Mar 9 at 17:38
  • Whether closed or open, perhaps editing the question with a prefix "Update 2024...", giving info pointing in the right (or modern) direction (or other good SO q/a), would help bridge the time gap, for new people with the same concerns. Leave the rest as-is for historical reasons, but point elsewhere for future needs.
    – JWCS
    Commented Mar 10 at 4:09
  • 2
    Personally I don't see the issue with the question as phrased. "Is there a library like X" is fact-based, and not even seeking a recommendation. It just wants to establish whether there is at least one. And "if not why not" is a broad, but technical question seeking to elucidate unknown unknowns: "What don't I know about JS that would make such a library a bad idea?" Commented Mar 10 at 8:14
  • 1
    @SteveBennett Asking if there is such a library is asking for a recommendation (namely, one or more such libraries), and asking why none exists or why it would be a bad idea will usually only gather opinions. Commented Mar 10 at 9:43
  • 2
    Meh, we're probably going to disagree. The main issue with recommendations is narrow requirements that are specific to a use case, and not useful to other people. This isn't that. It's not "what is the best X" it's "is there any X". Commented Mar 10 at 10:09

7 Answers 7

44

I find it hard to imagine how the question could be usefully edited without invalidating the answers. Purely cosmetic edits would be pointless from the point of view of getting it reopened.

Deleting it is not possible, because it has upvoted answers.

"Do nothing" would be my recommendation.

2
  • 1
    OK, thanks! That makes sense! And I appreciate everyone's time in explaining to me why it was closed (and hopefully I can do better next time :) )
    – Claude
    Commented Mar 8 at 16:04
  • 3
    @Claude Keep in mind, just because this question is staying closed doesn't mean you can't relay your experience in another question. There's nothing wrong with posing a question which is not opinion-based, and then immediately providing a self-answer, so long as you imagine it's a question somebody else might have in the future. Commented Mar 8 at 22:30
8

What bothers me is that the close message invites me to take one of two actions: edit the question or delete it

This reads much like a UX issue. What you're looking at is

selective recognition

while there's also a less prominent message:

edit the question or post a new one

Ask Question is the appropriate action that leaves existing value unperturbed.

8

You actually asked two questions. (a) is there a NumPy-like package for Node.js, and (b) if not, why not?

Questions like (a) often get closed unreasonably; questions about technology selection can indeed attract opinion-based answers, but if you phrase it correctly, as you have done, then the only possible answers are yes or no, and the question in my view is entirely legitimate.

Tactically, you can usually get it past the moderators by phrasing the question as "how do I multiply two matrices?" rather than "is there a library for multiplying two matrices?".

Part (b) though is definitely rather too open-ended for SO. Personally I find discussions about why things are the way they are fascinating, and I find suppression of such discussions on SO very frustrating, but there's little doubt that it's outside SO's scope. The question "why is there no library to do X" can only attract speculative (and non-technical) answers.

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    I'm not so sure about (a) -- "yes" isn't really a complete enough to be actionable answer on its own; "yes, that package is X" is full, but if we permit a question that's built to where that's the only acceptable type of answer, doesn't put us back in the place we were in in the late 2000s where the site was full of sockpuppets asking questions for which their controller's library/project/product is the answer (before we disallowed library recommendation requests and solved that problem)? Commented Mar 10 at 22:29
  • 1
    If someone wants to multiply matrices then I regard it as entirely acceptable to tell them that they don't need to write the code themselves, there's a library that does it for you. Of course, if it's your library, then you should make this clear. Commented Mar 11 at 9:42
  • @MichaelKay: I much appreciate this insight. I tend to get very upset when a question is closed, because somehow it feels like people are saying that it's a bad question (which I often read as: do some googling, it's obvious that things are like this, etc). It helps to think that sometimes a question is just not a good fit for SO, where questions should have clear answers, no opinionating (even though the question itself might be super interesting). Maybe "Your question has been closed" emails should come with a "DON'T PANIC" header :)
    – Claude
    Commented Mar 11 at 18:14
  • 1
    @Claude I agree. I've always argued that SO shouldn't allow negative actions like downvoting or closing a question without (a) revealing who you are, and (b) stating a reason. But I'm afraid whenever I say this, it attracts anonymous downvotes. Commented Mar 12 at 9:05
0

Yes, you should edit the question. It should foremost ask a question.

I'm wondering why there are no numpy-like libraries for node. Is there just not enough interest in node yet from the community that needs that kind of power? Is there a hope that ES6 features (list comprehensions) will allow javascript compilers to automatically vectorise native JS code to C++ speeds? Am I possibly missing something else?

Wondering isn't a practical programming problem. It is an invitation for opinions, mind-reading of people and/or speculation. You're lucky that question got some useful answers besides the 6 deleted useless ones.

It might be too late to turn that question around without invalidating existing answers but you might think of a variant where you actually show a problem that you solved with NumPy and then get code started for a JavaScript solution that asks how you achieve the same in a Node.js/npm stack. Answers can then elaborate on JavaScript/NumPy bindings, native JavaScript solutions or library alternatives.

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  • 11
    "Wondering" is my state of mind, it's followed by 3 questions. But I do see that these are not focussed enough. I guess (in hindsight) my main question should have been "Is there a technical reason why something like numpy cannot be implemented in Javascript (interestingly I think that back when the question was asked, the answer would have been "yes", whereas by now that webassembly is widely supported, the anser would be "no", as tensorflow.js shows). Thanks for the feedback!
    – Claude
    Commented Mar 8 at 10:58
  • 1
    @Claude All those follow up questions elicit opinions or guesses. Commented Mar 10 at 9:45
0

You ask a different question here, but there seems to still be misconceptions of what is wrong with your post to begin with.

There's a bunch of problems with your post:

  • You ask two questions which is not allowed.
  • Your first question "Is there a numpy like library for Node-js?" isn't opinion based. I don't know why I'm seeing people claim otherwise here, you can answer this question with a definite yes or no, if you think that part of the question is opinion based, you have no business curating content on this site. But it also doesn't belong here, software recommendations are not allowed on SO, you go to Software Recommendation Stack Exchange for that.
  • The second question is effectively "Why isn't there a numpy like library for Node Js" which is problematic for a number of reasons. Now contrary to what other people say, a question that asks "why doesn't X exist for Y language" can be a valid question for SO, but only if it was a conscious decision, and not a question about an ecosystem. For example, "why doesn't GO have generics?" (it does now, but that's not the point) has a specific factual answer and it doesn't bring in speculation and opinion (author specifically felt it didn't need it, and has written about this). But questioning an entire ecosystem is sociological in nature (node JS). You're asking "why hasn't somebody come along and made a library" is not a technical question. If you wanted to know technical barriers for creating such a library, you would have to ask if technical barriers exist, on SO, you'd likely have to come up with specific features that you think are barriers and then ask the question based on those. Such questions that aren't specific to a specific problem in tech might be more software engineering related.

A secondary problem with the last question is that you wouldn't even ask it if you had gotten your first question answered on Software Recommendations SE, because you would have found that the answer is "there is a numpy like library for Node JS"

Note that close reasons IIRC, are based on the first chosen, so one person might have chosen opinion based (even on accident), and the other people chose something else, and it would still show up as opinion based.

-7

What is the value of the question?

In my opinion, the question is useful for people who wants to looks for some way to do scientific computing in JavaScript (or Node.js), knows about NumPy, but don't know the correct term to look it up (such as the OP).

In this respect, it is useful.

Could a on-topic-for-SO question exist that satisfy the value above?

Consider the following:

NumPy-like multidimensional-array manipulation functionality for Node.js

In Python, manually looping through a list is slow. However, if you e.g. have a matrix of floating-point numbers and want to e.g. compute a matrix multiplication, using NumPy can speeds it up massively.

Similarly, is there some way to manipulate multi-dimensional arrays in Node.js with high performance? Or, if there isn't, is there any technical reason that prevents it?

In my opinion, that question would be on-topic for SO:

  • It doesn't ask for a library --- even though it's "common sense" that this would require a library, it also seemed common sense that big integer requires a library before JavaScript adds native support for it. I don't see my obvious technical challenge that prevents JavaScript from adding automatic vectorization for floating-point array some day --- provided the code is written in a particular way.
  • It doesn't ask for an opinion --- a solution would be one that multiplies matrices quickly. For example, the Tensorflow.js answer can do that.
  • Even in the (now false) case where there isn't such a library, it is asking for a technical reason, which can be objectively answered. For example, "JavaScript on browser cannot link to C/C++ library" is a reason (although for Node.js this is false).

Editing the question?

As far as I can see, that edit would not invalidate any answers, and would keep something valuable open on Stack Overflow (so that new information, if any, can be added there, making it more valuable for future visitors). So, definitely yes.

Is the top answer invalidated? Barely. But the question formulation above barely works --- it asks for "is there a technical challenge" and the answer states "there isn't a technical challenge", and provide a project, but also includes additional information on the challenge on the Node.js community.

Other answers are invalidated?

It is indeed true (see comments below) that some of the answers does not satisfy the high-performance condition. However,

I'd say that in this case the problem is less that "we change the question" and more "the question already mean to ask about high performance, we edit it to clarify the intent".

(even more narrowly-defined variant)

The question above can also be narrowed down more e.g.

NumPy-like multidimensional-array manipulation functionality for Node.js

In Python, manually looping through a list is slow. However, if you e.g. have a matrix of floating-point numbers and want to e.g. compute a matrix multiplication, using NumPy can speeds it up massively.

Similarly, is there some way to add two 3-dimensional arrays in Node.js with high performance? Or, if there isn't, is there any technical reason that prevents it?

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  • 1
    Eh, I'm sceptical the requirements as stated here are focused enough. NumPy is huge, both in terms of both usability and performance features, wanting something "like it" is rather ill-defined. The existing answers also already cover an extremely broad range, from a simple ndarray interface in native JavaScript, to a LAPACK frontend, to Tensorflow, so the question must cover an equally broad range to not invalidate answers. Commented Mar 9 at 13:20
  • 1
    @MisterMiyagi Do you think questions like datetime - What is the easiest way to handle dates/times in Python? - Stack Overflow would cover an "extremely broad range"? There is a lot of operations that you can do with date/time as well.
    – user202729
    Commented Mar 9 at 14:39
  • 1
    @MisterMiyagi Or alternatively Python Pandas equivalent in JavaScript - Stack Overflow , or How do I get content from a website using Ruby / Rails? - Stack Overflow (there's a lot of different ways to "get content of a website", depending on whether it uses GET/POST request, or use dynamic JavaScript to render its contents etc.)
    – user202729
    Commented Mar 9 at 14:42
  • sigh "If you're so evil, close this kitten!" - Okay. Now does that prove anything about the issue at hand? Other than that I should just shrug and not bother anymore? The scope of the Q&A under discussion is dictated by the answers, so the question cannot reduce the scope without invalidating them. At least for some of the linked questions, that's not the case. Commented Mar 9 at 15:09
  • 1
    @MisterMiyagi I'm claiming that the scope is narrow enough (although the edit narrowed it down a bit more). Are you claiming that all the linked questions are also too broad instead?
    – user202729
    Commented Mar 9 at 15:15
  • Anyways... "datetime - What is the easiest way to handle dates/times in Python? - Stack Overflow" with the specific questions of "Should I use the datetime module? Or just strftime? Or something fancier that isn't part of the std distro of Python?" is clearly opinion based. "Is there a JavaScript library that does that like Pandas?" - like, yeah, obviously asking for recommendations much? "How do I get content from a website using Ruby / Rails?" - like what now? Some content? HTML? Getting it? Parsing it? What does a GUI have to do with all that? Details slash clarity PLZ. Commented Mar 9 at 15:16
  • 1
    @MisterMiyagi Okay, I see you are saying that the linked questions are too broad according to you. What about the newly edited variant?
    – user202729
    Commented Mar 9 at 15:19
  • As for your proposed question formulation, assuming you mean it as an edit for the existing question: This and this and this all fail the "with high performance" constraint. Commented Mar 9 at 15:22
  • "What about the newly edited variant?" As I was saying earlier "The existing answers also already cover an extremely broad range [...] so the question must cover an equally broad range to not invalidate answers". No amount of editing will change that now. "Okay, I see you are saying that the linked questions are too broad according to you." No. I'm saying they are opinion based, asking for recommendations, and lacking details or clarity. Commented Mar 9 at 15:23
  • 1
    @MisterMiyagi See new edit.
    – user202729
    Commented Mar 9 at 15:35
  • The body of the suggested text is fine. But you start with Numpy-like package for Node.js package is just another word for library and that can be easily construed as "asking for a library". I think you should remove it completely or reword it.
    – TheMaster
    Commented Mar 10 at 15:30
  • 1
    @TheMaster I try to adapt it. But considering the value of the question is for people who would lookup "numpy" on e.g. Google, I don't think it's a good idea to remove it.
    – user202729
    Commented Mar 11 at 1:18
  • What is Tensorflow.js? Usually, it is TensorFlow (Python). Commented Mar 11 at 1:25
  • 1
    Much better....
    – TheMaster
    Commented Mar 11 at 1:27
  • @PeterMortensen I'm not a domain-specific expert here but it's mentioned in one of the answers in the linked question
    – user202729
    Commented Mar 11 at 2:10
-36

I asked a question

Please explain how "numpy-like package for node" is a question.

the question was closed for being opinion-based. I don't agree that it is

Please explain how "I'm wondering why there are no numpy-like libraries for node" is not soliciting an opinion.

edit the question or delete it

The latter. The question is irredeemable.

deleting the question would also be a shame, since (considering how many people found it useful), it does contain useful information

Usefulness is an inherently subjective metric and thus irrelevant. The only thing that matters is whether a question is objectively on topic or not. Yours is not.

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    The only thing that matters is whether a question is objectively on topic or not. No that's not the only thing that matters. Enforcing the law in such an iron clad manner is exhausting work with no real profit. You should at least consider whether it is helpful to others - whether other users can profit from it.
    – TheMaster
    Commented Mar 10 at 15:37
  • 1
    Stop arguing with the rules. You won't win.
    – Ian Kemp
    Commented Mar 10 at 16:48

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