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I recently encountered a now-deleted question that ends with the following phrase:

I expecting someone gonna help me to understand this and fix it immediately

My original thought was that the OP was just being rude. However, it was pointed out to me in SOCVR that the OP was probably just answering the last question on the question asking wizard: "What did you try and what were you expecting?"

Can the text be changed to explain that this should be what the OP was expecting their code/attempt to do, not what they're expecting the community to do with their question?

I don't have a great alternative phrasing, but here are a few possibilities off the top of my head:

  • What did you try, and what did you expect would happen when you did that?
  • Please provide clear steps for others to reproduce and understand your problem - what you tried, what you thought would happen when you did that, and what actually happened instead.
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    The real truth is that users don't know how to read, as it's pretty clear: "Describe what you tried, what you expected to happen, and what actually resulted." - "Show what you’ve tried, tell us what happened, and why it didn’t meet your needs. Not all questions benefit from including code, but if your problem is better understood with code you’ve written, you should include a [mre]. Please make sure to post code and errors as text directly to the question (and not as images), and format them appropriately."
    – Thom A
    Commented Apr 21, 2023 at 15:49
  • 16
    This seems to be strongly related to the recent The Ask Wizard's "What did you try" question is eliciting a lot of useless information. Commented Apr 21, 2023 at 15:50
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    All that information is there, yet users still don't format thier questions, post images of code, and don't provide an MRE; despite their beliefs "I tried, but it doesn't work" is not a helpful statement.
    – Thom A
    Commented Apr 21, 2023 at 15:50
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    @ThomA That particular text is clear, but unfortunately users appear to be ignoring it. Commented Apr 21, 2023 at 15:51
  • 14
    "but unfortunately users appear to be ignoring it." And that is the real problem; users don't read. It's not a new problem, and unfortunately not a solvable one (unless we start making them take a test before they ask of the contents on the tour and help center, and they need to pass it before they can actually post a question).
    – Thom A
    Commented Apr 21, 2023 at 15:53
  • "Can the text be changed to explain that this should be what the OP was expecting their code/attempt to do, not what they're expecting the community to do with their question?" why do you think that would help? The user already didn't actually read address the whole of "What did you try and what were you expecting?" I've bolder the part that the user's didn't respond to. They did also either misread, or misunderstood, or plain didn't really care about the second part, either. But the box is mandatory, so they probably put in the barest effort to cover the 20 character minimum limit.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Apr 21, 2023 at 15:54
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    The other common problem is to copy pasta the statement from their first text box into the second. That really annoys me; it almost always gets an instant downvote from me.
    – Thom A
    Commented Apr 21, 2023 at 15:54
  • "unfortunately users appear to be ignoring it." right. And why exactly would changing the text that users already ignore help? Seems like they'd just be ignoring the new text, however clear it is.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Apr 21, 2023 at 15:55
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    @VLAZ The text that ThomA cited is off to the side, which makes it much easier to ignore in my opinion (and many people clearly are ignoring it). Commented Apr 21, 2023 at 15:56
  • @EJoshuaS-StandwithUkraine not all of it is.
    – Thom A
    Commented Apr 21, 2023 at 15:56
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    I'd much rather see the second box in the wizard gone completely. I have not yet seen a single time it was used correctly.
    – Dharman Mod
    Commented Apr 21, 2023 at 15:59
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    An excellent example of reading. /sarcasm
    – Thom A
    Commented Apr 21, 2023 at 16:09
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    @VLAZ Yes, that's the text that should be changed. We obviously can't force OPs to read, but the text on the side is eminently ignorable. Commented Apr 21, 2023 at 18:21
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    We can force them to read, but holding a gun to their head just doesn't scale. Plus it's kind of impolite. Commented Apr 21, 2023 at 18:48
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    Thank you, I've seen a number of these "I'm expecting someone to explain this" / "I'm expecting an answer with code" / "I'm expecting a solution" and I couldn't understand why. Now I know. Those bits of the questions tell us that those particular people are reading the text, they're just misinterpreting it (or taking the piss), which means rewording to address that misunderstanding is reasonable. It won't make the people who don't read it read it, but it may help people stop coming across as flatly rude with the "I'm expecting" thing. I like both of your suggestions. Commented Apr 24, 2023 at 9:02

5 Answers 5

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I have been sitting on this one for a bit trying to get it slotted into a teams sprint but I am afraid its just not happening anytime soon. I am marking this as status deferred for the time being, but its is getting moved on to a backlog and looks like a good candidate for a possible community asks sprint at some point.

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Consider something like:

If you have tried to solve this, describe what you tried and what you expected to happen when you tried that.

  • It's harder to confuse with "what do you expect [from asking this question]?"
  • It still conveys the importance of describing your expectations.
  • It makes it clear that an attempt isn't required.

Now, the problem with this (though also the current phrasing) is, as pointed out in the comments on another meta question asking about this: what if it's just a how-to question and they haven't tried anything relevant to the question, and they just need to know where to start?

To solve that, I'd also make filling in the second box optional. We don't need to know that they asked an AI, searched the web, etc. Just let them leave it blank if it's not helpful.

I'd probably A/B test at least that second part to see if it makes it better or worse. The phrasing could also be A/B tested.

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    Well, users are not reading and/or ignoring the text as it currently is. I don't think "If you have tried to solve this" would make them read the whole thing. Most likely users would just engage in selective reading again and fill in some garbage information that barely even fits whatever they misinterpret the question is.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Jan 31 at 9:10
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    @VLAZ I think it's harder to misread, at least. The current one is one similar-looking word away from "what are you expecting?"; this is structured to make that misinterpretation harder.
    – Ryan M Mod
    Commented Jan 31 at 9:13
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    Any incremental fix like this is completely missing the point. The entire concept behind the AQW is utterly flawed, and demonstrates a misunderstanding of the site's goal so profound it seems like it has to be intentional. Commented Jan 31 at 9:18
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    @KarlKnechtel I agree with you that there are more fundamental issues, but I think that the incremental fixes of changing the text and especially making the box optional are simple fixes that would move it in the right direction without a lot of development effort. I do think that in a world where user retention is a major concern, focusing significant effort on the new user experience should be a priority. But alas, I am not in charge of product direction.
    – Ryan M Mod
    Commented Jan 31 at 9:26
  • I simply don't believe that users are currently misled by the UI. The ones that put in garbage in the box either don't care or deliberately don't follow the instructions for it. The major reason they fill in garbage is because they are trying to do the minimum work needed. So, changing the wording won't make them care more. Making the box optional would help, I don't disagree with that. My problem is changing wording as a measure for users who do not read.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Jan 31 at 9:33
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    @VLAZ "users who do not read" cannot be expected to participate in a site that has any standards beyond those seen on Quora or a Youtube comments section, so. Commented Jan 31 at 9:53
  • If they haven't tried to solve the problem on their own yet, should they be allowed to post the question at all? I don't remember ever seeing a case where someone who hasn't tried to solve the problem actually asked a real question. Commented Jan 31 at 14:13
  • @EJoshuaS-StandwithUkraine I feel this question is real: Why can the async and await keywords be assigned to? If it's not, then how can it be made real? What do I add for something I've tried?
    – VLAZ
    Commented Jan 31 at 15:12
  • @VLAZ That's definitely a real question, but it's asking a specific question about why specific code behaves a specific way. I was more referring to "I'm trying to write a program to navigate a map, I haven't tried anything because I don't even know where to get started" type questions. Those are almost never real questions. Commented Jan 31 at 15:16
  • Yes, I agree those are not useful and close-worthy. Usually because they lack focus. But often for other problems. However, I'm objecting to requiring an attempt for all questions.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Jan 31 at 15:19
  • @VLAZ Incidentally, I upvoted the linked question (and its answer) because I found them to be interesting and informative. Commented Jan 31 at 15:19
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    @EJoshuaS-StandwithUkraine how-to questions that are properly focused don't require any attempts to be shared and there are many such good questions on Stack Overflow. For example here's a question that's just a single line and is perfectly on-topic Commented Jan 31 at 17:52
  • @AbdulAzizBarkat Fair point, that one does seem to be a counterexample. Commented Jan 31 at 19:38
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I don't think any general advice for this box is going to work.

"The only thing that should go into that box is an MRE - and the help text should spell that out and link to it. Everything that is not a debugging question does not require an attempt and the wizard should not imply otherwise. – MisterMiyagi Apr 18, 2023 at 16:36"

Roughly adjusting the text from the MRE help page to clearly spell out what is needed under what conditions should be more appropriate:

When asking a debugging question, provide code that follows the guidelines of a minimal, reproducible example.

Notably, providing input here must be optional as no MRE, failed attempts, or similar are needed for non-debugging questions.

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    Not sure I agree. In a “how to do X” question showing a failed attempt is quite useful to find the misconception. Even useful in the repository of questions view (as opposed to catering to OP only) as misconceptions can be widespread, and obvious things for experienced users maybe less clear for newcomers
    – Cimbali
    Commented Feb 2 at 14:14
  • @Cimbali "quite useful" isn't the same as mandatory. Commented Feb 2 at 14:56
  • Sure but making the box entirely optional is pretty much the same as not putting a box at all. Maybe being able to disable the box with a “I have no idea where to start” checkbox or something like that?
    – Cimbali
    Commented Feb 2 at 14:59
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    @Cimbali If it's optional with a checkbox, that text should also clearly follow the rules and not imply an attempt/guess/idea is expected where none actually is. A checkbox with description such as "This is not a debugging question." could work. Commented Feb 2 at 15:09
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    @Cimbali failed attempts are extremely bad for "how to" questions. Because they drastically change the direction of the answers. Instead of creating a question useful for many others when they want to do foo, it's not a question of how to fix some flawed implementation of foo which, even with the code problems aside, might just be suboptimal. Or at the very least it might be one of many options. People who want to use foo might prefer a different approach which better fits their circumstances.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Feb 5 at 8:17
  • @VLAZ In my experience answers tend to reflect that. I often read things like “Your error is X but the better approach is Y” and then elaborating on Y.
    – Cimbali
    Commented Feb 5 at 8:32
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    @Cimbali in my experience, very few answerers do that. Most will do the minimum work needed to answer. Yes, there are people who leave good answers. But aren't the prevalent answer posters.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Feb 5 at 8:33
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Just for reference, the current text of the prompt is:

What did you try and what were you expecting?

Describe what you tried, what you expected to happen, and what actually resulted. Minimum 20 characters.

These phrases have pretty clear meanings to programmers, but to someone who's just starting out, it's not really clear what the box is asking at all. In addition to the "I expecting someone gonna help me..." style response, it also prompts responses like "I asked on Google/ChatGPT but nothing helped." Therefore, any potential prompt will have to give clearer, less jargon-y advice to be useful for its target audience.

MrMiyagi's suggestion seems like a good start to me, but it might be too narrow since non-MRE things (outputs, error messages, etc) could belong in this box as well.

Meanwhile, Cimbali's suggestion is careful not to make the prompt overly narrow, but might still invite "I asked Google" style inputs in response.

Finally, this box seems like as good a place as any to stave off some of the dreaded screenshots.

This is a little lengthy, but I don't think a short-and-sweet prompt is going to get the job done properly anyways:

What solution have you attempted and what are the results?

If this is a debugging question, please provide a minimal, reproducible example of your code and both the expected and actual results of running it (output, error messages, etc). Remember that none of these should be posted as images if possible - instead, provide them as code-formatted text.

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  • Like many proposals, this implies every question needs a MRE. That is absolutely not the case, and for many questions an MRE makes the question worse. The text should reflect that somehow. Commented Aug 7 at 6:03
  • @MisterMiyagi Good point. I edited the prompt to make that more explicit.
    – Anerdw
    Commented Aug 7 at 18:43
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Maybe rephrasing around the word attempt could be a way out?

Something like:

Show your attempt at solving this problem, what you expected it to do, and how the actual result differed from what you expected. Minimum 20 characters.

Maybe even add “Ideally, show the minimal piece of code you wrote or used.” with a link to MRE – but I think keeping the prompt short increases chances of it being actually read.

I also think changing Describe to Show is just as key in this rephrasing, but it applies less to non-debugging questions.

(Copied from this sister non status-review tagged question as suggested by @RyanM)

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