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I recently used custom mod flags to flag something as spam and to include an explanation to help the handling mod to faster understand why/how it's spam.

My flag was:

spam. look at the website's "github" link, which is really an npm link, where you can see that they are the publisher.

My flag was declined with the message:

Declined - Using standard flags helps us prioritize problems and resolve them faster. Please familiarize yourself with the list of standard flags: see What is Flagging?

Actually, it was two posts (answers) by the same author (77553731 and 77553651), both with the same problem. Confusingly, whoever else was involved agrees that the posts are spam, as they have both now been deleted as spam (deleted on the same day that my flags were declined). This is why I don't understand why this question is closed as a duplicate of Spam versus unsolicited self-promotion, and when to use the spam flag (or not). The only answer there is an appeal not to flag something as spam and invoke the system punishment of -100... But I didn't use the dedicated spam flag, so the -100 penalty wouldn't have been automatically applied, and someone out there agreed with me that these posts were spam- either enough non-mod community members, or a mod- perhaps the one who declined my flags.

Even more confusing is that I think this is the first time I've had such a flag declined, whereas I've made several custom mod flags concerning spam in the past and had them marked as helpful:

  • 77235689 (deleted by mod A)

    spam. look at the github repo URL's user part in the dart pub page.

  • 77152754 (deleted by community as link-only)

    spam. explanation for my spam flags on this user: if you click into the npm page, and then navigate to the github repo, you'll see github.com/<username>, where their display name on github is the same as the display name of this SO user.

  • 77115020 (deleted by mod B)

    just an explanation for my spam flags in this user's recent answers: if you look at the repo, you'll see in the list of contributors <GitHub username>, whose display name is <GitHub display name>. Also just the fact that they're posting many such answers without disclosing whether there is any affiliation.

  • 76399050 (deleted by mod C)

    16 out of 22 of this user's posts link to a repo that they are a core contributor to, but they don't put any disclaimers of their affiliation, and even try to hide it by saying "I found this project". I'd spam flag but I don't have enough flags to cover them all and wasn't sure it'd be clear what's happening here.

  • 76665252 (deleted by mod C)

    I think some kind of AI answer. <list of tells>. also, technically spam, since they link to a blog which is also linked (similar domain) in their profile without disclosing affiliation.

(another reason why I don't understand why this question is closed as a duplicate of Spam versus unsolicited self-promotion, and when to use the spam flag (or not) is because the above posts have been deleted, and my flags on them marked as helpful (though it may have been for reasons other than the lack of disclosure, since they were also short answers consisting of a link suggesting a tool))

I feel a little uncomfortable sometimes when spam flagging something where it's not clear as day how it's spam. Ex. cases where you have to click the link, then click some other link there, then go to a people page, search / hover tooltips, etc.

Should I just unconditionally expect the mods to be able to see what I saw and go where I went in my investigation instead of trying to help them understand why I think something is undisclosed affiliation / trying to save their time?

Or is there a recommended way to help mods faster understand why I flagged something as spam? Should I say it in a comment instead? Should I start a chatroom with them? And what about users who have flagging privileges but can't comment or create chatrooms?

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  • 5
    Related
    – CPlus
    Commented Nov 28, 2023 at 22:36
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    How were these two posts not spam "as clear as day"? They are literally unsolicited links to some product's front page with marketing speech around it. I would be extremely surprised and concerned if any mod declined spam flags on these.
    – blackgreen Mod
    Commented Nov 29, 2023 at 8:31
  • 2
    The other helpful flags you mention do indeed have some basis for custom flags. Some are links to open-source projects, where it's unclear whether the OP should have spam penalties applied to the account; some have relevant explanations around links; and some were ChatGPT+spam, where mods who aren't on the forefront of the AI effort might miss it.
    – blackgreen Mod
    Commented Nov 29, 2023 at 8:38
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    @blackgreen I guess my sense for what is clearly spam isn't as good as yours. from my outsider perspective, the answer appeared to be an attempt to answer the question with a relevant tool instead of being totally irrelevant to the actual question, and it has an open-source API, and a free pricing tier. so I went to look for undisclosed affiliation.
    – starball
    Commented Nov 29, 2023 at 9:44
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    I wouldn't have thought it was obviously spam (rather than just a poor answer) either, you do have go looking to find the undisclosed affiliation. But unlike the hypothetical users you mention at the end of your question who can't comment or post to a chat room, you can -- that may be why the flag was handled the way it was. In contrast, a user with rep < 50 who wouldn't be able to comment on the answer as a signpost to others might have had the custom flag handled differently. (These are both hypotheticals on my part, so .. caveats and all that.) Good catch on the spam, though! Commented Nov 29, 2023 at 10:02
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    I love this. We flag as spam, mods decline flag, we post a Meta question asking why the flag was declined, mods tell us to use custom flags. We use a custom flag, mods decline flag, we post a Meta question asking why the flag was declined, mods tell us to use standard flags. Seems like flagging has become as much of a waste of time as any other curation activity.
    – Ian Kemp
    Commented Nov 29, 2023 at 10:32
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    So... yeah. Spam flags need to have an explanation because they're essentially a hyper-focussed mod flag. Needing to abuse comments for it is just wrong.
    – Gimby
    Commented Nov 29, 2023 at 11:10
  • 1
    @Gimby - Yeah. And yet, status declined on being able to provide context while still allowing multiple flaggers to handle the flag so the mods don't have to. :-( Commented Nov 29, 2023 at 11:34
  • 1
    You should be using the normal spam flag to report spam, not a custom flag. Why didn't you use the normal spam flag? Commented Nov 29, 2023 at 13:23
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    @MarkRotteveel normal spam flags can fail when the post looks like an attempt to answer the question and reviewers could be incapable of understanding why a post is spam. So using a custom flag message to point to the actual issue might improve the review process.
    – Tom
    Commented Nov 29, 2023 at 13:42
  • @Tom The OP does not explain that, they just say they use a custom flag, which might be why moderators reject them (as shown in one of the quoted rejection reasons). If they use a custom flag because their normal spam flag was rejected, they should mention that explicitly in the custom flag, so the moderator doesn't think they are abusing custom flags for things where a normal flag would suffice. Commented Nov 29, 2023 at 13:44
  • @MarkRotteveel I didn't mean they've cast a spam flag on that post before, I meant that this is a possible learning that spam flags won't work on certain spam post and that one might cast a custom flag on those instead.
    – Tom
    Commented Nov 29, 2023 at 13:53
  • @IanKemp you can, of course, find inconsistencies and contradictions just about anywhere if you omit enough context. The advice has always been to flag obvious spam as spam, and stuff where a spam flag might get declined as a custom flag. The posts starball is complaining about are obvious spam. No mod would decline a spam flag on those. Using a custom flag is plain unnecessary, especially so with the current state of the flag queue
    – blackgreen Mod
    Commented Nov 29, 2023 at 19:32
  • We can see it from another perspective: if you came across those posts as a review audit, would you ever be tempted to hit “Looks OK”? I sincerely hope the answer here is no.
    – blackgreen Mod
    Commented Nov 29, 2023 at 19:37
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    @blackgreen That no mod would decline such a flag is correct and for all other cases they claim it was an accident. I can understand OP why they don't want to rely on that, but prefer to write a custom mod message instead.
    – Tom
    Commented Nov 29, 2023 at 19:58

1 Answer 1

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Most of the time, I just flag it as spam and report it to charcoal. That also gets it handled faster than a custom flag in most cases. Normally, I don't add much of an explanation on why something is spam except maybe "undisclosed affiliation, profile links to website" or whatever.

There, I can add a reason/comment why I think it is spam and there will likely be other people seeing the report who can then flag it as well. While this requires SmokeDetector privileges, you could also add a chat message explaining that it is spam and why. Someone else will probably take care of it.

If someone marks the report as a false positive there (for SmokeDetector/Metasmoke), I can ping them and explain my reasoning again.

Until now, this worked pretty well for me.

And if you think it's really important to explain it in this specific case, raise a custom flag and also explain why you are using a custom spam instead of a spam flag. When I come across a situation like that (using a custom flag for spam), I have typically talked about it with others on Charcoal or SOCVR before so I link that conversation in the custom flag as well (in cases like that, it's often something on the edge between spam and NAA or similar).

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  • note: my question post also asks at the end what users can do if they can flag but can't talk in chat or comment.
    – starball
    Commented Nov 29, 2023 at 9:37
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    For the majority of cases, it's probably fine to flag without explaining it.
    – dan1st
    Commented Nov 29, 2023 at 9:39
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    this question is not about the majority of cases. or are you talking about the majority of the cases in the minority of cases that this question is about?
    – starball
    Commented Nov 29, 2023 at 9:45
  • The majority of cases where a user needs to use a spam-flag but cannot comment/use chat.
    – dan1st
    Commented Nov 29, 2023 at 9:54
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    My favourite thing about this answer is how it demonstrates that the current spam-flag functionality is fundamentally broken. No wonder people don't curate.
    – Ian Kemp
    Commented Nov 29, 2023 at 10:35

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