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I'd like to appeal the moderator decision to decline my flag on

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/68241440/how-can-i-get-an-apple-enterprise-certificate-and-if-anyone-has-can-you-share

The question title requests stolen goods and the question body is effectively empty:

Screenshot of the question in its original form, as flagged.

My flag said:

Easy to downvote and close but the question has zero content and the title suggests criminality so perhaps stronger measures are needed.

Considering that the question was later closed, deleted, and spam-erased, I stand by that. I was hinting to the moderator that the user should be ejected and I still think so. The moderator declined with the words

flags should only be used to make moderators aware of content that requires their intervention

Exactly so. I raised an "in need of moderator intervention" flag in order to bring to the moderators' attention an issue where I felt they should intervene. I think that was my duty.

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  • 1
    The question wasn't actually "spam-erased", i.e. the spam penalty was not applied on the user. When that happens, the post shows as deleted by community. Currently it shows as marked as spam, which simply means that there was at least 1 red flag on the post when it was deleted.
    – cigien
    Commented Jul 11, 2021 at 4:55
  • I'm not sure mods could interpret "stronger measures are needed" as "the user should be ejected" considering that mods are not law enforcement.
    – Andrew T.
    Commented Jul 11, 2021 at 5:13
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    @cigien Should I have used the spam flag? It doesn't quite pass the "spam" test as I interpret it, so I'd rather not misuse that flag.
    – matt
    Commented Jul 11, 2021 at 5:23
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    "so I'd rather not misuse that flag." ... but misusing the mod flag is fine? There is nothing a mod needs to do here. There are enough users with enough reputation out there to close and then delete the question.
    – Tom
    Commented Jul 11, 2021 at 5:32
  • 3
    No, the post definitely doesn't warrant a spam flag, so you were right not to raise that. As to the custom flag, I don't really agree with it myself. The post just looks like it's very low quality, and it doesn't seem to need mod attention. By the way, I'm not sure what you mean by ejected, but if you mean the user profile should be destroyed, that's definitely too harsh.
    – cigien
    Commented Jul 11, 2021 at 5:32
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    Regardless of the wording of my flag, I think I was just doing my correct duty in flagging the question, and I would prefer not to be discouraged from doing that.
    – matt
    Commented Jul 11, 2021 at 6:59
  • 2
    I mod-flagged a question recently that was asking for help to commit a crime, and the flag was declined. I would have thought it was a clear-cut case for a mod flag. But mods evidently may not agree.
    – khelwood
    Commented Jul 11, 2021 at 7:27
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    I would have flagged that as "rude/abusive"; the body was nothing but gibberish.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jul 11, 2021 at 10:49
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    Since I don't think it's been pointed out yet, I think it's worth noting that the rejection message here is a stock rejection reason - I've received it a few times. So I wouldn't read too much into the precise wording of the rejection reason.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Jul 11, 2021 at 16:07
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    Notes: 1. The post was deleted by three users voting to delete, not as a result of red flags (spam or rude/abusive flags). 2. The question is hidden into the edit history from non-moderators, because the deletion marked a rude/abusive flag as helpful. 3. You raised an "in need of moderator intervention" flag, not a "red flag". This is a semantics issue. You're using "raised a red flag" to mean "to offer a sign or signal indicating potential, incipient, or imminent danger or trouble", rather than specifically a spam or rude/abusive flag.
    – Makyen Mod
    Commented Jul 11, 2021 at 20:40
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    Deleting an account based on issues with a single post allows to attack and destroy an account with only a minute of screen access of the victim. Creating a criminal post can be done in one minute writing only two lines of text. (In one minute screen access, you could do much more destructive things - but you do not actually need screen access, account access is enough. Not sure it is formally a problem, but it does not feel good to me) Commented Jul 12, 2021 at 16:07
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    And accounts can be trivially created, @Volker, so I'm not really sure what your complaint is. I regularly destroy the accounts of spammers and people who post gibberish. It doesn't matter to me that it only took them minutes of screen time. In fact, the very fact that it did only take them minutes of screen time to create a throwaway account and post garbage to this site is the primary reason why I apply such penalties to the account. Their few minutes of screen time should not get in the way of hundreds or more users. That kind of behavior simply isn't welcome here.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jul 13, 2021 at 3:48
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    I think he is worried about the case where people leave their browser unattended in a public place. But there a bazzilion other ways to make trouble for people who do that ... so I don't think it is our concern. (Use a screen locker Luke ...)
    – Stephen C
    Commented Jul 13, 2021 at 7:42
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    Right... we wouldn't destroy an account that had a history of otherwise good contributions. Instead, we would message the user. Essentially a "WTF?", but phrased more politely. We would also help them out by clearing their login sessions, and, of course, remind them to properly secure their account, since they are responsible for anything that it posts, even if they, themselves, were not behind it.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jul 13, 2021 at 9:36

2 Answers 2

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I think the flag was raised in good faith.

Mods are free to not take any action in a specific case, but you want these cases flagged to prevent future mishaps.

Declining sends the wrong signal to the flagger. Either a custom response message or simply marking the flag helpful was the better choice here.

If moderators get these type of flags a lot and if they are fed up with these attempts to keep this a safe place I suggest they either post a detailed answer here that the flaggers can use as exact guidance going forward or they mark this flag disputed. I prefer the latter to happen.

Maybe our mods need a clear task in the custom message. Adding Can you check for prior incidents and/or annotate this user so you have a case if this unwelcome use of the post feature continues gives them an explicit task. I thought this would be inferred but better safe then sorry.

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    Yeah, more verbosity from both sides would help here. Spelling out what you want the mods to do lowers the burden of thought for them and helps avoid misunderstandings; a handwritten explanation makes rejection less frustrating. All that said, I don't really fault either party. Reading between the lines: matt figured a question this garbagey was worth preemptively warning or banning the user; the mod disagreed and thought this wasn't over the line enough for that and should be blown away by ordinary users instead. So be it; both are reasonable views. If I were matt I'd shrug and move on.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Jul 11, 2021 at 16:19
  • I agree with that. Your comment on the question, explaining it is a stock rejection reason is helpful as well.
    – rene
    Commented Jul 11, 2021 at 17:44
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    Moderators can't mark an "in need of moderator intervention" flag disputed. We can only mark them helpful or declined. The only flags which we can directly mark as disputed are spam and rude/abusive flags.
    – Makyen Mod
    Commented Jul 11, 2021 at 20:22
  • @Makyen okay. Are you virtually disputing the flag then?
    – rene
    Commented Jul 11, 2021 at 20:52
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    I've pinged the moderator who handled the flag. I'm reserving judgement, waiting to hear back from them.
    – Makyen Mod
    Commented Jul 11, 2021 at 20:58
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    "Flags Too Often Marked [declined]..." - Mod Newsletter September 2011. Evergreen classics
    – gnat
    Commented Jul 12, 2021 at 21:12
-41

While I agree and I think it was some mod mislook (if the content is really so, note I can not see it).

But I think, creating a meta thread from an isolated case with 300 views and 60 votes is overkill.

If the mods do not make a habit of falsely reject your flags, then you can accept it. If you are very-very sure, I think flagging again is okay. But do not make a habit of it.

If nothing works, then let it - others will flag it again. If not, then the post or the problem is maybe not so really important.

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