7

I'm seeking help from the community to understand the reasons for Close vote better.

The question, Merge two one dimensional String arrays to a single array with delimiter was first closed with the reason that it is not focussed which doesn't seem to be correct as it is already focused on a specific problem.

Later on, it was closed mentioning the reason as What topics can I ask about here?. However, when I go through this link, it says:

We feel the best Stack Overflow questions have a bit of source code in them, but if your question generally covers…

  • a specific programming problem, or
  • a software algorithm, or
  • software tools commonly used by programmers; and is
  • a practical, answerable problem that is unique to software development

…then you’re in the right place to ask your question!

Although the question does not have source code in it, it meets 3 out of 4 criteria mentioned above.

Is the question a good candidate to be closed? What have I missed here?


Update:

The question being discussed here has been closed again and this time, the question, Merge each element of multiple lists into one Element and return another list in java 8 has been used to mark it as duplicate. However, this question is about Lists while the question being discussed here is about arrays. They are different in many ways (and so do their respective solutions).

Some other following questions have also been posted in comments:

  1. How do I join two lists in Java?
  2. What is the best way to combine two lists into a map (Java)?
  3. How to zip two Java Lists
  4. How to print two lists together using Stream API java 8?
  5. How to convert a Java 8 Stream to an Array?

Certainly, the required solution will come out if we combine the questions/answers from all the links listed above. This way (combining multiple questions/answers to mark a question duplicate), most of the questions/answers on SO can be treated duplicate of some questions/answers. This doesn't seem like a good way of marking a question duplicate.

20
  • 9
    Does this answer your question? Question Effort - What's our line in the sand? Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 8:06
  • 2
    So, you're asking about a specific question, rather than in general?
    – VLAZ
    Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 8:07
  • 5
    Related: Is it always a good idea to demand the OP “post some code”?
    – Ryan M Mod
    Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 8:42
  • 2
    Questions that do not include questions are still off-topic, @MisterMiyagi, and that includes questions where the question appears in an image, rather than text. That has nothing to do with this question, which contains a clear problem statement, is reasonably scoped, and represents a small, focused, practical programming problem.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 9:40
  • 8
    @CodyGray I don't see clear problem statement in that question. I don't see any kid of problem statement. I only see requirement - "I need this"
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 9:51
  • 3
    @DalijaPrasnikar "How can I merge them into a single array...?" What part of this question is unclear to you? They're asking how to accomplish something.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 9:51
  • 8
    Why do we need to know what the OP does or doesn't know how to do? I don't think I've ever once cared about that when writing answers. We'd only care about that if Stack Overflow were a help desk. Do you approach it that way, @DalijaPrasnikar? Do you see your job as teaching the OP? Or do you see it as answering a question for the benefit of future viewers? Again, I don't see the problem statement/requirement as unclear or insufficient. Even not being a Java programmer, I don't see how it would be difficult or require speculation to provide code that met the stated requirements.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 9:59
  • 5
    @CodyGray Do you think that answer really teaches anything beyond handing out copy-paste solution? That whole Q/A is useless as-is. And original problem starts with asker not presenting actual problem with his (Assuming) homework. If he presented that, then it would be easier to write better answer that would explain some concepts and actually be more useful for future readers.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 10:06
  • 7
    That's the point: I don't care. It isn't my job to prevent the OP from copy-pasting a solution. If someone chooses to do that without understanding it, that's on them. Furthermore, I would say that a good answer would ensure that they understood the solution, because it would explain it to them. You can't force them to read the explanation, though. They did present the actual problem. That's all that matters, and all that we should be answering. You are far too focused on some specific individual. I thought you'd been here long enough to understand that the asker is irrelevant. @Dalija
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 10:08
  • 6
    @MisterMiyagi I think that is a gross misinterpretation of what I said. Obviously, I couldn't actually write the Java code to do it, since, um, I don't know Java. But the problem statement is clear to me, and it's something that I could solve in a language that I do know. Aside from that, I am a competent enough programmer that I could answer a large majority of the questions asked on this site. Does that make them all off-topic? Does that make them impractical problems, because I'm smart enough to already know the answer? That's pretty ridiculous logic.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 10:09
  • 7
    @CodyGray Yes, asker is irrelevant, but his problem is not. Without "clear problem statement" we cannot write good answer that will not only give copy-pastable code, but also give some explanation. I have seen really good question asked by high school kids, about very simple things where they were able to explain what is their problem with some task. Maybe such question can be duplicate, but such question is good question and can get good answer explaining some concept. I am not saying that we should close simple questions, we should close poor questions where we can't pinpoint exact problem.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 10:18
  • 7
    It's still blowing my mind that you think this question is lacking a clear problem statement. I cannot imagine being much clearer in a question. Personally, my questions tend to be long and rambly, with lots of details. Plenty of people find that irritating, but it's just my style, and I can't help it. I don't think that all questions need to be that way, though. The problem is stated quite clearly. What more are you looking for? Do we really need to know everything that they tried and failed? Wouldn't it be faster, easier, and more generally relevant to just...ask the question?
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 10:23
  • 5
    @DalijaPrasnikar No, we should not close those posts. Post that are useful to a lot of people do not say what exactly the poster is having trouble with. They're HowTo-Question and people find those all the time when they need to do something that they don't know how to do. That's the point of Stack Overflow.
    – Scratte
    Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 11:38
  • 5
    This is a [discussion] about a [specific-question] and I don't think it should be closed as a duplicate of a generic target. I'm voting to reopen. The second target in the list doesn't even seem to be a duplicate.
    – cigien
    Commented Feb 10, 2021 at 15:12
  • 6
    I think the deletion of the Question goes against the guideline in access to moderator tools. It says "Closed questions that are of no lasting value whatsoever should be deleted." and "please check whether there are any good answers". Emphasis on the first was mine. The post had a good Answer and it wasn't devoid of value. The page even goes to explicitly say of duplicates "they can serve as a signpost, directing users to useful answers". Not that I agree it should even have been closed as a duplicate.
    – Scratte
    Commented Feb 12, 2021 at 9:16

4 Answers 4

12

There's no valid reason to close that question*. As evidenced in comments that I've now deleted, some people got confused and starting applying inappropriate close reasons like "lack of effort", which is not a close reason and never has been (it is a downvote reason). I've reopened the question.

The Help Center text that you quoted makes it pretty clear what the general expectation is. Most good, on-topic questions will have source code in them, but that is not an absolute requirement.

That one contains a sufficient definition of the inputs and expected output. The tags are sufficient to establish the language in which the solution is desired. It is not too broad to be reasonably answered in our Q&A format, and it is not unclear.


* Except possibly as a duplicate, which is only technically a closure and not considered by this answer. If you can find a suitable duplicate, please go ahead and mark it as such. "Simple" questions are often duplicates, given we've been doing Q&A here for 10+ years; a lot of the simple topics have been asked and answered at least once.

13
  • 9
    but it's definetly a poor question that lack research effort and I am pretty sure a duplicate target can easily be found. Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 8:20
  • 13
    It being "a poor question that lacks research effort" is completely irrelevant to the question of whether it should be closed. You can express your opinion about that using the downvote button. And, yes, if it's a duplicate, it should be marked as such. I don't really consider that to be closure, except in a technical sense. When I say "closed" here, I mean to declare as unsuitable for Stack Overflow. A duplicate doesn't mean that.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 8:31
  • 6
    I notice that in your answer, you say "some people got confused ...". I don't know why you would choose that phrasing. I doubt any of the close voters were remotely confused about what they were doing. Some of them stated their reasons very clearly in comments on that post, and have also done so publicly on Meta as well. It's all very well to be charitable, but I see no harm in calling a spade a spade.
    – cigien
    Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 8:34
  • 4
    If that spade thinks it is a heart, then I would say it is confused. A misunderstanding of the site's rules and the appropriate use of the close reasons is still confusion.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 8:36
  • 5
    Oh, I see. You are being charitable. I wouldn't call knowing the rules and choosing to break them because one disagrees, to be a misunderstanding or a confusion. But I expect you have your reasons for looking at it like that.
    – cigien
    Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 8:39
  • @cigien You were once supposed to assume good faith but it was then dropped from the CoC. Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 8:53
  • 4
    @JeanneDark Regardless of the changes to the CoC, I do assume good faith. But as I mentioned, at least some of the close voters have stated openly that they know the rules, but will go against those rules because they disagree with them. I'm not sure what's left to be assumed. And to clarify, I don't think those users are doing this with any malice; quite the contrary, they are doing this because they believe this is the best thing for SO. Nonetheless, it's still knowingly in violation of policy, and calling it a confusion or a misunderstanding seems to be avoiding that important point.
    – cigien
    Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 9:01
  • 4
    I still believe these people are confused about the applicability of the close reasons. It doesn't have anything to do with "good faith". I haven't seen these so-called open statements of willingly going against the rules. Everything I see is offering a "creative" interpretation of the rules, one that is different from the intent, but not necessarily a knowing violation of policy. Although, I guess that is the charitable interpretation. How dumb would you have to be to state that you were knowingly going against the rules when you could simply invent a weasly interpretation?
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 9:33
  • 1
    This kind of questions can also be closed with "Needs details or clarity" because it is not clear what exactly is the OPs problem. I am all for closing such questions, not because lack of research effort, but because often enough such "seemingly" simple question, turns out to be huge ball of mud, when OP starts adding requirements to answers because proposed solutions are not applicable to his use case. Not all questions end like that, but more than enough.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 9:46
  • 4
    It is not clear what about the problem statement is unclear. I'm not even a Java developer, but it's self-evident to me. We close questions based on the evidence in front of us, not speculation about what might happen or frustration about what has happened in other cases. If the question turns into a chameleon question, then it should certainly be closed at that time (or such edits simply rolled back). But hand-waving about how the question might turn out to be "a huge ball of mud" doesn't make much sense. Instead, make an actual argument about the problem presented, or don't close it.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 9:50
  • @DalijaPrasnikar That's very interesting, because I've literally never had this problem. Once I or anyone has answered a question, I simply rollback every edit by the OP that invalidates existing answers, and tell them to ask another question if they want. I really don't know what "huge ball of mud" problem you're referring to.
    – cigien
    Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 9:50
  • 5
    @cigien Yes, you can always roll back. But that is not the point, point is presenting the problem that is crucial skills for programmers. We are not doing anyone a service if we just dump solution. If someone needs to ask such simple question, then he obviously lacks huge amount of basic knowledge. Just dumping the solution, like OP here did without any explanation of the algorithm and mental process is not helpful at all. It will only turn the question asker into mindless copy-paste robot.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 9:59
  • 4
    @DalijaPrasnikar I have several hundred students whom I get to teach every year, and I put great effort into ensuring that they do not become mindless copy-paste robots, and actually learn programming skills. But that's my day job. The time I spend on SO is for very different purposes. I answer questions on SO only to add to the Q&A repository; I couldn't care less about what happens to the OP. They might as well be a robot for all I care.
    – cigien
    Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 10:05
8

No, a question should not be closed just because it has no source code in it. In fact, that question seems quite reasonable, and I've voted to reopen it.

There's exactly one valid reason to close that question, and that's if it's a duplicate. Since there are no suggested duplicates in the comments, the question should be open until one is found.

As to why the question was closed as "Needs Focus", this (now deleted) comment is very illustrative:

Yes, as I said, the close-reason is misleading. You can maybe read it like so: "The question lacks focus in a sense that it doesn't show what problem the OP has when trying to solve this task. Therefore the question fails to focus on a specific programming problem and is nothing but a homework-dump." Also check out this.

As suggested in the comment, the "Needs Focus" reason is simply being used as a cover for "No effort shown", and I agree with that assessment. The comment also mentions a "homework dump" which appears to be a euphemism for "No effort", since there is no mention of homework anywhere in the post.

Note that "No effort" is not a close reason, it's only a downvote reason.

I suspect that many of the close voters closed the question for reasons similar to "No effort". Maybe they closed the question for other reasons, but the stated reason of "Lacks Focus" is definitely wrong. The question is about as focused as a question can be.


In your question, you've asked:

What have I missed here?

Nothing, apart from the fact that this kind of closure is fairly common. If you keep an eye out for it, you'll notice that it happens fairly often.

9
  • 3
    I had called it "homework-dump" for no particular reason. It was simply the first word that came to my mind when I was thinking about a trivial question that only consists of requirements. I haven't voted to close this question but I felt like it's important to explain what the close-voters had in mind. The OP of this meta-post was asking why it got closed so I responded with my assumptions. It's the only reasoning I can imagine.
    – akuzminykh
    Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 9:52
  • 1
    @akuzminykh Right, I didn't mean to suggest that you voted to close the question, but I did say "other close voters", so I'll edit that out, that's my bad. I did quote your comment, because I agree, that's very likely the reasons the close voters used to close the question. Your comment put it well, and so I used it, I hope that's ok.
    – cigien
    Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 9:56
  • You should make clear that the comment you quote is not from one of the close voters (even better: remove it completely) and also rephrase "I suspect that the other close voters closed the question for similar reasons." to no longer state a falsehood ("other" implies it was from a close voter and thereby the close voters' reasoning). Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 9:57
  • @JeanneDark Yes, absolutely. akuzminykh already pointed that out, and I've edited the answer accordingly. Do you think it should be made clearer than it is currently?
    – cigien
    Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 10:01
  • 3
    Not sure why that comment needs to be quoted, at all. It's misleading and if I read it my impression is certainly that it represents the close voters' train of thoughts. But it's merely another user's theory about what they might have thought. It's not authoritative or proof of any kind that the question was closed based on that reasoning. But even if it was, the question is not about shaming the close voters and musing about their likely motives, but about whether or not questions without code should be closed as "Needs more focus" in general (and one question in specific). Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 10:30
  • @akuzminykh If you would prefer me to remove your comment from my answer, just let me know, and I'll do that.
    – cigien
    Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 10:35
  • 2
    @JeanneDark Actually, as I mention in the answer, I think the comment does represent the close voters train of thought. It's not even a stretch; some of those close voters have said exactly the same thing in other places on Meta. And the OP is very much asking why the question was closed, and I don't see how that can be answered without at least trying to explain what the close voters were thinking. It's not my intent to shame anyone, but only to explain why I think they closed the question.
    – cigien
    Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 10:38
  • 2
    @cigien I don't agree with Jeanne Dark at all. Of course it's reasonable to consider why the voting happened to answer this meta-question. Then other users might even read this and notice: "Oh, I have the same point of view and didn't know that I should not use my close-votes in such cases." Many, many users have this opinion. Just keep the comment. It's not harming me or anything.
    – akuzminykh
    Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 10:56
  • @akuzminykh Yes, the first sentence of the question says "... understand the reasons for Close vote better." so the motives for the close votes are definitely relevant. I'm glad you commented on this answer, since I wasn't sure at all about how to attribute a deleted comment to someone :) Thanks for confirming that I can use the comment, I appreciate it.
    – cigien
    Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 11:00
1

Update. The question was later edited and invalidated my answer. The text below applies to revision 6 of the question.


The question is now unclear, and what makes it unclear is its ending - without using a for-loop?.

Why do we exclude for loops? As one commenter put it very well, are while, repeat allowed? Without this piece of information, this is an XY problem.

We might also say that the question should also specify how to handle arrays of different sizes, or arrays of different types (are only arrays of strings allowed?), however I don't think this should be a close reason, good answers will likely cover this scenarios too.

The question could also be interpreted as too broad, as the OP doesn't specify what they tried, which problems did they run into while trying to fix the problem. However the general consensus here on SO seems to be that question with a clear scope aren't too broad - e.g. "how do I implement a login page" will likely be closed as too broad, while "how do I merge two arrays" not, even if both questions show no effort.

IMO, the question should be kept closed until the OP clarifies what they need. IMO, they worsened the situation by adding the without for loops part, they might've tried to make the question less broad, but they managed to raise even more questions.

-9

Is the question a good candidate to be closed?

Yes. It is a duplicate of Merge each element of multiple lists into one Element and return another list in java 8 [duplicate].


I have to say that I mostly disagree with the other answers here.

To make it clear, I also don’t think that the lack of code is an immediate close-reason. Still, the way I personally see it is that most no-code (or how-to) questions are most likely duplicates in that point in time we are in. But again, to make it clear, I think these questions should be closed if indeed there is a valid duplicate, and not just because.

To the question at hand, I do believe it should be closed as Needs More Focus and I will explain why. The question currently describes something very specific that the OP is trying to achieve. It is arguable how many more people will look for that exact same task. On the other hand, the way I see it the question could be broken down to (at least) two questions:

  • How to iterate over two lists “in parallel”?

  • How to join two strings with a separator/delimiter?

To both of which exists the corresponding duplicates:

While someone else might actually be interested in iterating over two lists and joining their string items with a delimiter, just as the OP, they could also pass through these two links and achieve their goal. So the question at hand doesn’t add much value and could be closed as Needs More Focus.

Another possible option is for some Java dupe-hammer holder to close the question as a duplicate with the two links above to help both the OP and any future readers still achieve their goal.

27
  • 3
    To clarify, are you saying it should be closed as Needs Focus, or as a duplicate with 2 targets?
    – cigien
    Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 9:27
  • 10
    We do not close questions as lacking focus because your crystal ball says they won't be useful to others in the future. Even with the typo/not reproducible close reason, you should not be trying to predict the future. Arguing that the question is too broad because it can conceivably be broken down into subtasks is, to me, a major stretch. What is presented in the question as it stands is clear, practical, and of a reasonable enough scope to be asked and answered in our Q&A format. Closing such questions is counter-productive to our goal.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 9:30
  • 5
    When you have to connect too many dots to develop the solution from the existing questions, you should not be closing as a duplicate.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 9:33
  • 4
    @CodyGray I don't think that's too many dots. It's a single straight line between two: Iterate both lists at the same time -> join the iterated elements with a delimiter...
    – Tomerikoo
    Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 9:34
  • 2
    That Meta post of mine is about questions with 2 bugs, where the bugs are unrelated. Even then, there was no clear consensus that it's ok. You seem to be suggesting closing as a combination duplicate of multiple intertwined how-to questions. Apart from the fact that I was not proposing that at all, I don't feel comfortable with this idea; many (most?) questions posed on SO would fall into this category. Are you suggesting we should be closing all of them?
    – cigien
    Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 9:35
  • 3
    This appears to be nothing more than a reaching for a justification to close a question because you feel that the person did not demonstrate sufficient effort. Who are you to make this declaration? It is not our job to practice gatekeeping or decide who "deserves" an answer. The truth is, none of us are good enough, pure enough, or hard-working enough to "deserve" answers. But we provide them anyway, because our goal is to build a library of high-quality answers to the long tail of programming questions, not to pass judgment on users. Who the asker is, or their effort, is irrelevant.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 9:39
  • 5
    This kind of questions can also be closed with "Needs details or clarity" because it is not clear what exactly is the OPs problem.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 9:46
  • 3
    If you dig deep enough you can divide any question into smaller sub-questions. Not to mention that questions that ask to achieve something specific, might have different needs than the default out-of-the-box solutions that those duplicate answers provide. For example there is absolutely no need to use a StringJoiner when you try to to concatenate only two values with one delimiter.
    – Ivar
    Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 9:48
  • 5
    @DalijaPrasnikar What is not clear about it? OP has two arrays and doesn't know how to join each element on the same index with a delimiter. It leaves little to our imagination.
    – Ivar
    Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 9:50
  • 4
    It doesn't matter what they know @DalijaPrasnikar. We don't only write answers for OP but for anyone in the future who might face the same question. The answer to this question doesn't require any knowledge at all. Just copy-paste it into your IDE and it works. It would add a lot of clutter if every question was required to provide a full curriculum. It adds no value to us or to anyone who tries to identify if they have the same question.
    – Ivar
    Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 10:07
  • 2
    @Ivar But what is the question? There is no question, there is no problem beyond I need code that will do this. Why the OP cannot write this code himself is not clear.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 10:27
  • 3
    It's not a poor Question. It just simple, that's all.
    – Scratte
    Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 11:40
  • 3
    @DalijaPrasnikar That's the way one asks a HowTo-Question. "How do I do this?" or "How is this done?". It doesn't need a resume or a failed code attempt. Those things only satisfy curators. Not anyone else. They're mostly just noise to everyone else. And sometimes they even limit the Answers to the point of being large useless to anyone else.
    – Scratte
    Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 11:45
  • 3
    @Tomerikoo - The question being discussed here starts with I have two arrays... Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 17:36
  • 3
    @LiveandLetLive a term which is misused alot... Java is a static typed language and should be very clear what is the type of each variable. Yet, the code in question only shows a = ["a","b","c"]. Not even sure that's valid Java. Looks more like Python to me...
    – Tomerikoo
    Commented Feb 9, 2021 at 17:41

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .