97

I think we should get rid of . It attracts a whole lot of bad and off-topic questions, most which should have been asked on https://electronics.stackexchange.com/ instead.

  1. Does it describe the contents of the questions to which it is applied? and is it unambiguous?
  2. Is the concept described even on-topic for the site?
  3. Does the tag add any meaningful information to the post?
  4. Does it mean the same thing in all common contexts?

Electronics is an incredibly large area of application, so it is very ambiguous. Many posts seem to use the tag simply to mean "hardware thingies", so it doesn't really add any valuable information. It is most of the time explicitly off-topic.

This sits at 491 posts currently and I think they need to be manually reviewed because there's a whole lot of completely off-topic questions posted below the tag.

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    I hate the precedent, but isn't this the same thing as chemistry which was saved from the noose despite similar reasoning?
    – Daniel F
    Commented Jan 26, 2021 at 15:16
  • 6
    @DanielF Well, the difference in this case might be that people actually ask a whole lot of pure electronics questions here, thinking it's somehow legit since electronics and programming are fairly closely related areas. I don't see any pure chemistry etc questions here.
    – Lundin
    Commented Jan 26, 2021 at 15:20
  • 1
    @DanielF Btw using the rationale from that old thread, then we should create a programming tag too.
    – Lundin
    Commented Jan 26, 2021 at 15:24
  • 4
    @DanielF There is no good reason why chemistry was not burninated. In fact, there is no good reason why most burnination requests that have been declined, were declined. Trash is trash and trash belongs in the dustbin, not on SO.
    – Ian Kemp
    Commented Jan 27, 2021 at 10:19
  • 1
    Related (about protocols - talking to/programmatic access to (electronic) devices, not directly related to code): Are questions about [at-command]s on-topic on Stack Overflow?. Also: Good question etiquette for generalising questions regarding a protocol, not a framework or language Commented Jan 27, 2021 at 11:37
  • 6
    I for one can't see why "chemistry" was not burninated. That tag is not even closely related to programming. I hope this one gets burninated.
    – 10 Rep
    Commented Jan 28, 2021 at 16:58
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    @DanielF: I think the best argument for that not applying is that questions tagged [electronics] are usually not about simulating electronic circuits (the analog of the [chemistry] argument) or things like that, but about programming electronics (using it as a computer, which is just programming). Or about designing electronics, which we now have a separate SE site for. And AFAIK most of the simulating-electronics problems that could justify a tag aren't actually special and come up in normal programming, e.g. just boolean logic for digital electronics. Commented Feb 2, 2021 at 9:55
  • @PeterCordes In that case, something like [embedded] would probably be better. Commented Feb 3, 2021 at 5:43
  • @chrylis-cautiouslyoptimistic- that has the same problems. The issue with the tag is dual: all encompassing and topicality. Embedded devices by themselves aren't on topic unless they pertain programming problems, same as with electronics. While there may be less embedded devices, there are still too many of them.
    – Braiam
    Commented Feb 5, 2021 at 12:13
  • @Braiam It's a problem that embedded systems are on topic on SO, yes, because problems in embedded systems are about 50/50 hardware/software, meaning 50/50 off-topic/on-topic. But they have been on-topic here since day 1, so it's a bit late to fix it.
    – Lundin
    Commented Feb 5, 2021 at 12:20
  • Ironically, I brought this very issue up when we launched software.codidact.com. I pushed for making embedded systems explicitly off-topic and nudging them over to electrical.codidact.com instead. All of this based on my experience from moderating the shaky embedded tag here at SO (I'm one of the two existing gold badgers for that tag). You can fix these problems when launching a brand new site, but not when you are stuck with some 10+ years of site culture. Similarly, all HDL questions would be better off at an electronics site.
    – Lundin
    Commented Feb 5, 2021 at 12:26
  • 1
    Again, the problem with the tag is that it encompasses everything, when it should be more specific. Create a tag or a host of tags of on topic... tags(?) instead of a single tag that encompasses everything.
    – Braiam
    Commented Feb 5, 2021 at 17:28
  • @Braiam A single tag serving the purpose of "PC programmers back off, don't answer questions you have no clue about" is great to have, however.
    – Lundin
    Commented Feb 8, 2021 at 7:28
  • 1
    I doubt the tag serves that purpose, and even if it did, it isn't the purpose that tags should have. They should say "hey there, you know TMS570, come answer this question".
    – Braiam
    Commented Feb 8, 2021 at 11:34

4 Answers 4

11

has been burninated.

trogdor

Thanks to everyone who participated.


Progress:

The tag is in the process of being burninated. You can help out by reviewing the questions with this tag, and...

  • editing questions to improve the question and remove the tag (retag-only edits are best left to users with full edit privileges; i.e. > 2k reputation),
  • flagging/voting to close questions that are duplicates/off-topic/unclear/too broad/opinion-based (users with < 3k reputation can help quite a bit by flagging questions for closure, which helps keep the Close Vote Review Queue full),
  • filtering for questions with this tag in the Close Vote Queue,
  • voting on questions with this tag,
  • voting to delete the questions with this tag (after they have been closed, and only if the entire Q&A contains nothing of value). However, keep in mind that at the end of the burnination process all closed questions containing this tag will be deleted semi-automatically. Thus, there's rarely a need to vote to delete these questions.

Here are some quick links to get you started:

Track the progress of burnination

Remember that burnination is a clean-up effort!

Salvage whatever possible by editing and re-tagging.

We don't want to destroy value, so salvaging a post should be your first priority. If a question can be saved, please edit it. Your edit should improve all problems with the question and remove the tag, possibly replacing it with another tag, as described above in "Observations/Retag Guidance". (Edits, specially re-tags, are best left to users with full edit privileges)

Unsalvageable questions should just be flagged/voted for closure. They don't need to be retagged.

If the question is not appropriate for this site, then don't worry about removing the tag—just flag/vote to close the question.

At the end of the burnination process, all questions which still have the tag should have been closed. These will be mass-deleted, which will remove the tag from the system automatically, with minimal disruption.

Ask for help if you need it.

If you have any questions about specific questions you come across, or the process in general, please feel free to leave a comment on this post. You can also drop into the SOCVR chat room for real-time advice and discussion.

0
62

The tag description is rather incriminating:

The development of electronic devices is off-topic for Stack Overflow: consider asking these questions on Electronics.SE. Use this tag for programmatic access to I/O and electronics from user space.

I agree - this tag appears to be intrinsically off-topic. Put another way, if this was the only tag on a question, it would almost certainly be off-topic because "pure" electronics questions are off-topic.

This also appears to add very little information or value beyond what's already there. Questions that are legitimately on-topic can be just fine without it, since there are already plenty of other relevant tags. For example, there are many questions about VHDL, but if someone's already filtering on the VHDL tag I don't see what this tag adds. Also, there's already a tag.

I say we burninate this.

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    Please note that VHDL is still on-topic here though. Even though asking on the EE site will likely give better answers.
    – Lundin
    Commented Jan 26, 2021 at 15:21
  • 14
    @Lundin Yes, my point wasn't that it's off-topic (because it's still a programming language) - it's that question about VHDL would be just fine if they stopped using the electronics tag and used only the VHDL tag. Commented Jan 26, 2021 at 15:22
  • 2
    When accessing hardware directly, electronics isn't too useful, because it isn't specific at all. Commented Jan 26, 2021 at 16:19
  • @EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica those questions are about switf or whatever iOS developers use now.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jan 26, 2021 at 21:26
  • There are other tags for writing SW to access electronic hardware: [drivers], and the also-questionable [hardware]. And questions about designing electronics that can run code (i.e. CPUs) can come under [cpu-architecture]. Commented Jan 27, 2021 at 0:29
  • @Braiam I heard they're using objective-swift now.
    – Ian Kemp
    Commented Jan 27, 2021 at 10:22
  • 2
    So, for programmatic access to I/O and electronics from user space what tag should be used?
    – Luis Mendo
    Commented Jan 27, 2021 at 11:56
  • 1
    @LuisMendo the controller is the safest bet. Then driver, api, etc. down to the more abstract stack.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jan 27, 2021 at 16:59
  • 2
    @LuisMendo How about [hardware-io]? Commented Jan 28, 2021 at 2:58
  • @Lundin VHDL is a language to describe digital electronics circuits. It is a programming language. There is no such requirement for programming languages that they need to generate HTML code.
    – peterh
    Commented Feb 3, 2021 at 9:15
  • 3
    @EmileCormier Honestly, that one seems insanely broad, as well. That's like one step down from [programming] in breadth.
    – reirab
    Commented Feb 3, 2021 at 15:31
  • @reirab Then perhaps the means via which hardware is programmaticly accessed would be more appropriate as a tag: e.g. [usb]. Commented Feb 4, 2021 at 18:06
  • @EmileCormier Yes, more specific tags would be more appropriate. The bus, programming language, CPU, operating system, driver API, etc. or any combination thereof may be appropriate tags, depending on the question.
    – reirab
    Commented Feb 4, 2021 at 18:09
21

I think we should burninate this tag.

Looking at this filter, it seems as though a lot of questions tagged are actually asking about programming electronic devices, which is on-topic here. These questions don't really need the tag, because it doesn't really add anything to the question. A lot of them could be tagged with or VHDL.

Some might argue about questions like this, which include a hardware aspect as well. IMO questions like this can be on-topic for Stack Overflow as long as they include code. The majority of questions like this will include code (as you do need to program electronic devices). As long as the question includes an aspect of code I think it can be on-topic.

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    in some cases [hardware] might be a suitable replacement for the [electronic] tag, e.g. questions about C programming with the purpose to communicate with some kind of hardware.
    – jps
    Commented Jan 26, 2021 at 20:58
  • 1
    There are a lot of on-topic questions using this tag, but without much effort I found around 30 that were pure electronics questions, and then I only looked around 1 year back. Also, if someone ask about how to "program electronic devices", that's a strong indication that they don't have a clue what they are doing. Those who work in this field (like me) would use embedded and/or one of the many microcontroller family tags.
    – Lundin
    Commented Jan 27, 2021 at 7:43
  • 2
    @jps That's an even worse tag, which have all the same problems as electronics. Tags should be as detailed as possible. Nobody who knows what they are doing think they are working with "hardware". They would rather tag the post Cortex-M0 or STM32F etc, the actual technology used.
    – Lundin
    Commented Jan 27, 2021 at 7:49
  • @Lundin ok, but the specific tags might be ok for some common devices, but I don't think we want new tags for every piece of electronics that people try to talk to with their C or whatever code. The [electronics] tag has really a lot of OT stuff, the number of closed questions is growing steadily. In the next step we need a lot of delete votes from the 20k+ folks.
    – jps
    Commented Jan 27, 2021 at 8:14
  • 4
    We do want the relevant tag for the target system. That is, if they have a board with MCU STM32XYZ, then they should use the tag STM32XYZ. We don't need a tag for the board. If it matters what parts that are on the board, then the question should likely have been asked on EE instead, with schematics attached.
    – Lundin
    Commented Jan 28, 2021 at 9:09
  • 2
    "The majority of questions like this will include assembly (as assembly is used to program most electronics)" As an embedded developer, I would disagree with that assertion. - haha - The vast majority of drivers have been in C (or sometimes even higher-level languages) for decades. Sure, we use assembly sometimes, but not anything close to a majority.
    – reirab
    Commented Feb 3, 2021 at 15:36
  • 1
    @reirab yes but either way electronics require code to work, right? That's what I meant. Any of the questions that require code, whether it be C, or anything else, are on-topic on Stack Overflow. There are some questions which are off-topic on this tag, and it is useless in the context of the question. I am not knowledgeable in terms of electronics, so sorry for that misunderstanding :)
    – 10 Rep
    Commented Feb 3, 2021 at 17:12
-15

There is no such thing like "off-topic tag". There are only off-topic questions.

That a tag attracts many bad content, is not a reason to delete it. The worst option to handle bad content is that we make it harder to find.

That electronics in general is off-topic here, is not a reason to delete it. It is a reason to close them as off-topic, and leave the rare cases as it is on-topic.

If a content is acceptable on the SE system in general, and it is on-topic on the electronics SE, then it should be migrated there. To remove the tag from it is not a solution, it only hides the problem and does not solve it.

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    By that logic, wouldn't all off-topic tags have to stay? Commented Feb 3, 2021 at 14:44
  • @EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica There is no such thing that "off-topic tag". There are only off-topic questions.
    – peterh
    Commented Feb 3, 2021 at 14:52
  • @EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica I inserted this into the post.
    – peterh
    Commented Feb 3, 2021 at 14:53
  • 12
    Of course there are off-topic tags. What if I created a [russian-literature] or [continental-philosophy] tag? It's hard to imagine how there could be any on-topic questions about those topics at all (unless you think that we should start allowing literature and philosophy questions on this site). Tags should uniquely identify a specific topic, which can either be on-topic or off-topic. Russian Literature has nothing whatsoever to do with programming, plain and simple; neither does Continental Philosophy. Commented Feb 3, 2021 at 14:55
  • 5
    If a tag is attracting off-topic questions, then it either needs to renamed, synonymized, or burninated. In this case this tag is attracting a lot of off-topic questions that should belong on electronics.SE. The tag itself doesn't add anything to on-topic questions. That's why this tag should be burninated.
    – 10 Rep
    Commented Feb 3, 2021 at 17:14
  • 1
    It may be but is not obvious that [electronics] attracts off-topic questions. Backing this statement would need a tricky analysis of user traffic.
    – Rainald62
    Commented Feb 3, 2021 at 22:45
  • 3
    @Rainald62 there's a simple thought experiment: all questions on the site must have a tag. Only topics that can be asked about, must have tags available. If a tag exist on the site, it means that I can ask about that on the site. As long as you accept that logic as true, the only way to demonstrate it is to see if after you remove the tag, the amount of off topic questions should fall.
    – Braiam
    Commented Feb 4, 2021 at 10:56

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