74

In the First Posts queue I recently encountered an answer that states that two other answers, including the accepted one, are wrong. To prove this, the author gave some counter examples, and noted that they would have commented if they had sufficient reputation.

Usually I flag answers which should be comments as NAA, but this one is quite extensive and (as far as I can tell) correctly points out flaws in other answers1. It would probably be undesirable to lose that information. However, it also does not answer the question itself, so would qualify for an NAA flag.

After a short discussion in SOCVR I decided to raise an NAA flag. Anyway, I figured that it would be interesting to get some more input on this corner case, to have a guideline whenever this happens again.

So, my question: How do we handle answers by new contributors that point out valid flaws in other answers?

  • Simply delete them as NAA?
  • Leave a comment on the flawed answers on the author's behalf?
  • Mod flag?
  • Something else?

1Although in this specific case the question is a bit unclear, and leaves room for interpretation: Is a path allowed to contain the same node more than once?

21
  • 2
    Related: When to flag an answer as “not an answer”? Commented Nov 20, 2020 at 17:59
  • 23
    i.... would have to agree with your assessment due to the fact that the answer doesn't actually provide a solution. but if their claims have merit... it wouldn't feel right to me to just delete it and leave it at that.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Nov 20, 2020 at 17:59
  • 6
    so, definitely downvote the wrong answers (if they are in fact wrong), maybe leave comments on them explaining why they are wrong if that can be done in a comment, then deal with the NAA
    – Kevin B
    Commented Nov 20, 2020 at 18:06
  • 2
    “In the First Posts queue I recently encountered an answer that states that two other answers, including the accepted one, are wrong.” - Sounds like the answer should have been submitted as commentary Commented Nov 21, 2020 at 6:02
  • 2
    "...noted that they would have commented if they had sufficient reputation." That seems to be the key here. Just help them by copying the content into comment(s) giving attribution and thank them for posting then flag for NAA and tell them that unfortunately an answer is not the right place. Commented Nov 21, 2020 at 8:19
  • 2
    In the very special case that there is no solution to the question this answer would actually be the only legitimate answer and all the other answers would be wrong. Was there at least one correct answer? Commented Nov 21, 2020 at 8:24
  • 3
    I was not aware the answer was under discussion on Meta; I would not have deleted it if I was as to not disrupt the debate. So, sorry about that.
    – Baum mit Augen Mod
    Commented Nov 21, 2020 at 11:39
  • 4
    However, I personally still think this is Not An Answer and thus agree with the flags.
    – Baum mit Augen Mod
    Commented Nov 21, 2020 at 11:40
  • 3
    @MisterMiyagi That leaves us with the slightly paradoxical: If it would say that there is no answer, it would be an (attempt to) answer. Commented Nov 21, 2020 at 11:48
  • 9
    Really???? Answers should never be extended comments. How come everybody has forgotten the very simple and fundamental tenets of this Q&A platform? Baffling. Commented Nov 21, 2020 at 16:15
  • 3
    I think that people got on the wrong footing because the partial answer discussed here started with "I meant to comment but have to put this in an answer due to insufficient rep". That's nice and modest but let people read the answer in the wrong light. So I took the liberty and simply edited it away. Commented Nov 22, 2020 at 13:14
  • 2
    It's not an answer - and OP admits it isn't an answer. But after reviewing the edit history I see that we've already had a delete/undelete battle between two mods so I have little hope this thing can be removed. Well, there's lots of crap content on SO - we can just add this non-answer to the pile and move on. Commented Nov 22, 2020 at 17:33
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    I find it quite incomprehensible that people are allowed to answer a question, but are not allowed to dispute someone else's answer. SO's social engineering drives me crazy. Commented Nov 22, 2020 at 23:20
  • 4
    Much as we don't make or approve trivial edits, we don't allow answers which don't attempt to answer the question. IF that should be changed then suggest that, get the upvotes, and ask for the wording of the Help to be changed; let's not make up our own inconsistent rules on the fly, then ask afterwards if that's OK.
    – Rob
    Commented Nov 23, 2020 at 7:08
  • 1
    I have never understood why anyone should be allowed to answer but not to comment. It's simply forcing them to submit their comments as if they were answers. Commented Nov 29, 2023 at 23:00

9 Answers 9

55

"Not an Answer" is the wrong flag in any case. "Not an answer" is for things like "I have the same problem, any solution?"

If you're casting a moderator flag, the implication is that you want a moderator to take action on this particular answer, rather than leaving it to the community. The only reasonable response that a moderator can take to a "not an answer" flag is to delete the answer.

So the question you have to ask yourself is, "does this answer harm the site enough that it must be forcibly removed by a moderator?" I would argue that it doesn't.

13
  • I think an answer that says other answers are wrong can't be considered NAA, at all. A mod flag might be innapropriate as well, only because it's an answer. If one doesn't like the answer, they can downvote, but not flag.
    – 10 Rep
    Commented Nov 20, 2020 at 18:05
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    @exnihilo not only on the flag that condition is there, it's also on the help page: Answers that do not fundamentally answer the question may be removed. This includes answers that are: commentary on the question or other answers
    – Braiam
    Commented Nov 20, 2020 at 19:54
  • 8
    @exnihilo Except that they went out of their way to inform about problems with the other posts. The information is useful for users that find those others posts. Language layering seems destructive. Removing it makes Stack worse, not better.
    – Scratte
    Commented Nov 20, 2020 at 19:54
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    I agree Robert. I would go further though, beyond "does this cause harm" to this is actually a valid answer, because it does answer the question by stating what not to do. Is that useful? Well, that is what votes are for, not deletions.
    – Travis J
    Commented Nov 20, 2020 at 21:30
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    @exnihilo Even "don't do it like this: <code>" is not very useful. Answers need to say what you should do, not what you shouldn't! Commented Nov 20, 2020 at 23:27
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    @exnihilo In no way was I trying to discredit anyone, the answers which I had pointed out as incorrect were upvoted and accepted. Furthermore, the examples given in my "answer" are quite relevant to the original question posted. I'll add a disclaimer to my post nonetheless.
    – user14675723
    Commented Nov 21, 2020 at 12:26
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    It's straight up not an answer, categorically, and if the threshold for curation & moderation is "it must materially harm the site" then really what the heck are we all bothering for? Commented Nov 21, 2020 at 16:14
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    @AsteroidsWithWings: You sound frustrated. Don't be. Moderation is always a value judgement; if it weren't, what would be the point? Slavish adherence to rules? Commented Nov 21, 2020 at 16:22
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    I mean, sure, we could all just ignore the quality controls that we've spent the last 11 years putting in place, so that we don't appear to be "slavishly adhering to rules". I don't know when or why it became cool to "do the wrong thing" just for appearances' sake, but yay I suppose. Commented Nov 21, 2020 at 16:27
  • 7
    We call that a "slippery slope fallacy." Commented Nov 21, 2020 at 16:42
  • 5
    This is not a forum. If you have reservations of other posts you should comment on them, not posting another answer that should be a solution to the issue the question is about.
    – Braiam
    Commented Nov 22, 2020 at 12:07
  • 1
    Moderators can also convert an answer into a comment, which is usually the desirable outcome
    – OrangeDog
    Commented Nov 22, 2020 at 21:42
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    I don't see how my comment counts as an invocation of the slippery slope fallacy. At all. Commented Nov 22, 2020 at 22:17
32

This is borderline NAA (because it maybe should've been a comment), but I'm going to argue that it's not.

While they don't provide a solution to the original question, it's still pointing out legitimate information what will help the OP solve the problem. Ideally, "the accepted answer is wrong!" answers will also provide guidance on what the OP should do instead (I actually did that recently in a case where the accepted answer recommended a dangerous practice), but even without that it provides at least some useful information to help the OP solve the problem.

That being said, I think that this falls under the partial answer category.

3
  • 6
    Yes. The "contains legitimate information" pertinent to the question (and thus potentially helping the OP towards a solution!) is the important bit. Therefore it does constitute a partial answer. It is also (if correct, which I cannot tell) quite useful to readers. The OP may have hurt his case by saying he would have commented if he could. In fact, since comments are ephemeral and ancillary information only, a comment may actually be insufficient for such substantial information. Reminds me of the "positive results bias" in scientific publications: Failed research is rarely published. Commented Nov 22, 2020 at 10:17
  • 9
    Well said. To put it very tersely: "answer" does not imply "solution." Commented Nov 22, 2020 at 15:52
  • 2
    I like @WayneConrad's succinct rule. There are many useful contributions that are more than comments on the question but less than solutions to the problem: for example, advice on a strategy for diagnosing the problem. However, pointing out flaws in an existing answer should ideally go in a comment, and it's just bizarre that we allow people to answer a question and don't allow them to critique existing answers; it's bound to lead to this kind of consequence. Commented Nov 22, 2020 at 23:28
29

I see that other posters have advocated the "never delete anything good" approach to SO. So I will play devil's advocate and represent a strict interpretation:

This is NAA. It is not an answer to the question. It is not a partial answer to the question. Instead it is a sign post to information in another place. That is a NAA as described here. The correct place for such information is as a comment on each answer.

Alternatively, stating such facts and then also giving an answer would be good as well and probably the best outcome. But this requires OP to provide some bit of an answer in there.

Personally if I ran across such an answer, I would, however, not immediately vote NAA, even if it is one. Instead I would try to get OP to provide at least a partial solution.

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    Hopefully the author of that answer will respond positively to the comment requesting them to include an actual solution in their answer
    – PM 2Ring
    Commented Nov 20, 2020 at 18:40
  • Im wondering, why is the question even on SO? it is NOT a programming question (i.e about a specific implementation). It is suitable for CS stack exchange or math SE.
    – adjan
    Commented Nov 21, 2020 at 10:53
  • 3
    @PM2Ring I am the author of that post (It seems now I have enough reputation to comment), I have no efficient solution to the question asked, in fact I came across the question while searching for an efficient solution. My "answer" is quite big, which I don't think would fit in a comment.
    – user14675723
    Commented Nov 21, 2020 at 12:20
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    @helperFunction Ah. In that case, we do have a problem, as you've probably gathered from the answers & comments here. You do need to include some kind of solution to the OP's question for your post to qualify as an answer. It doesn't have to be the most efficient solution, but it should correctly answer "whether there is a path from u to w that passes through v". But note that we don't usually delete answers that are technically wrong, we downvote them.
    – PM 2Ring
    Commented Nov 21, 2020 at 14:06
  • ...or add that there is some degree of suspicion that there does not exist an efficient approach to the problem... thus breathing life into @MisterMiyagi's paradox! Commented Nov 22, 2020 at 4:00
11

Even though I'm otherwise sympathetic to an answerer who falls in this category, one issue I do see is this: For comments on other people's posts, 50 reputation is required. If they lack that reputation and are doing this to circumvent that requirement, then that kind of defeats the purpose of having such a requirement. On these grounds alone, I would say it does fall into the category of NAA.

However code11's suggestion to simply hold back for a bit and to see if the OP can resolve the issue, before a flag is raised, is probably a pretty solid way to handle it, in cases where it's still a valuable contribution.

8
  • 1
    Just because someone thinks they contribution is a comment, doesn't make it one. And the reverse is also true. See Answer posts prefixed with “This is a comment not an answer” I mean I could start this with "This is not a comment".
    – Scratte
    Commented Nov 20, 2020 at 21:13
  • 2
    You need 50 reputation to comment everywhere. Commented Nov 20, 2020 at 21:30
  • 4
    “For comments on other people's posts, 50 reputation is required.” - And? The fact you need 50 reputation to submit a comment doesn’t give a user without the privilege to submit a comment latitude to submit commentary as an answer. Commented Nov 21, 2020 at 6:04
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    So you'd rather lose the information the person can provide instead of having it in the wrong type of post? The whole problem would be avoided if the stupid rep requirement was removed. Comments can be flagged after all. Commented Nov 21, 2020 at 14:48
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    @Jakub - This commentary was submitted as an answer, different rules exist on answers, a lot easier to delete actual unnecessary commentary, compared to commentary submitted as an answer. Most often the commentary submitted as answer isn’t actually helpful. The fact the commentary submitted as an answer this time was helpful, just goes to show, it probably should have actually been submitted as a comment. It would have resulted in the existing answers being improved. Commentary submitted as an answer won’t notify the answer author of the feedback to their answer Commented Nov 21, 2020 at 16:44
  • @SecurityHound If I'm understanding your first comment right, I'm saying the same thing you are. Commented Nov 21, 2020 at 20:16
  • @SecurityHound But the user did NOT have the rep to submit a comment. They could not have followed the rules because the rules prevented them from doing so. That their post is further criticized just adds insult to injury. Commented Nov 22, 2020 at 0:00
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    They were not forced to break the rules by submitting a comment as an answer. Ironically if they had just answered the question instead of commenting on other answers they would have earned the privilege to submit commentary Commented Nov 22, 2020 at 0:14
5

It is quite clearly not an answer.

Feedback on existing answers goes in comments under the existing answer. That's what comments are for. Period; end of story.

Just because somebody doesn't have enough reputation to post comments yet, doesn't mean they get a free pass on putting their comment in the wrong place instead. It should be self-evident that the purpose of the rep threshold is to make newcomers watch and learn how the Q&A model works before contributing, not to make newcomers post in the incorrect place instead.

Although, from what I've seen of people's opinions of both the cited answer and of the purpose of comments more generally, I'd argue that watching and learning is increasingly unlikely to result in any actual wisdom these days.

It's really quite simple:

  • If you have an answer to the posed question, a solution to the posed problem, write it an answer. It will get peer reviewed, sorted by votes, put in review queues as needed, and all those other lovely things that underpin the Q&A model that is the whole purpose of this site as compared to random forums.

  • If you have commentary on an existing answer, or a request for clarification on a question, write a comment.

If you can't do either of those things, either due to time constraints, or the question being closed, or not having enough rep to comment, then that's fine: simply don't do it.

That's it. Only that. Nothing more. No ifs, no buts, no hints, no tips, no maybes. This isn't hard.

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    I appreciate you saying what should have been done. I think the most important part you point out is that answers are peer reviewed and commentary really isn’t. So by submitting commentary as an answer you really gunk up the gears in the system Commented Nov 21, 2020 at 16:50
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    @SecurityHound 100%! The design decisions for this site weren't arbitrary. I'm not clear on why it seems a majority of users nowadays proudly wish to circumvent or subvert them. Commented Nov 21, 2020 at 17:12
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    Couldn't a moderator convert the answer to a comment or something?
    – 10 Rep
    Commented Nov 21, 2020 at 17:21
5

There is a semantic difference between an answer and a solution, and I feel that confusing the two is what fuels this discussion.

Showing that several different apparent solutions are not viable constitutes a partial answer, even though it is not a solution. The information is pertinent and may help the OP and other readers finding a solution.

By contrast, the NAA flag is, like Robert says, for contributions which do not substantially deal with the subject of the question.

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    This is incorrect, the help page says "answer the question", this is commenting on the correctness of other answers.
    – Braiam
    Commented Nov 22, 2020 at 12:05
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    @Braiam I think you understand "to answer" as "to provide a solution". The OP is under the same semantic haze. You can (partially) answer a question without providing a solution! Ideally in that case, you'd prove that there is none, or provide one, but both may be hard; it is certainly a partial answer to refute some erroneous attempts at a solution. There is a similar well-known and recently oft-criticized positive result bias in academic publishing: Failed attempts, although they would be valuable contributions to science, are too often not published. Commented Nov 22, 2020 at 13:03
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    @Braiam More concretely: "commenting on [here: refuting] the correctness of other answers" certainly is part of the the process to "answer the question". If you can refute all possible solution attempts it is a complete answer; if you can only refute some, it's a partial answer. Commented Nov 22, 2020 at 13:06
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    I think answers should effectively contain solutions, otherwise they aren't answers. Simply dealing with the subject of the question is not enough. Even comments can deal with the subject of the question but may not be a solution. This should indeed have been a comment. Commented Nov 23, 2020 at 9:26
1

It is not an answer.

The author of that "answer" explicitly gave a disclaimer that said:

Note: This post doesn't answer the question posted, ... I had originally intended this "answer" as a comment, but I didn't have the reputation to comment at that time.

So the author agrees, now what?

You can comment to the author and ask them to provide at least some info to help solve the actual question (though it's pretty unlikely they have any, or why wouldn't they have added it in the first place?). If you're feeling generous and don't want what seems like a valuable post to be disqualified, you may add the info for them (that is, again, if you have any).

A different approach:

If the author agrees that the answer should've been a comment in the first place; you can offer to comment for them, giving credits like:

From @helperFunction The below counter example is incorrect, see the comment by Steve. I have provided another counter example after this one...

And then they can delete the comment post themselves.

Or if by the time you see the post, the author has reached the commenting privilege, remind them about their "answer" and ask them to change it into a comment.


If you decide to flag such an answer, there's a good chance that your flag would get declined (adding to your declined flag statistics) given this case is pretty controversial. I suggest flagging and then proposing for more users to flag it in the SOCVR, where you can explain your case.


About the "never delete anything good" approach... there are millions of such "good" comments! If they were to become answers, should we just leave them be? I think not.

EDIT:

Just a small note of clarification: The SOCVR chatroom isn't really the place to ask others to raise NAA flags on posts (because one such flag has much the same effect as any number). However, if you feel strongly enough, and the post has a net negative vote score, you can use SOCVR to request delete votes on such posts. But you'd be expected to provide a good reason and be prepared to argue your case. – Adrian Mole

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  • @AdrianMole Oh my god -- do we have a meta meta where we can discuss whether your comment is in fact a partial answer!? ;-) Commented Nov 23, 2020 at 11:08
  • 1
    There's probably a chatroom just for that, @Peter. Commented Nov 23, 2020 at 11:10
0

This answer is commenting about the correctness of other answers. Flag a moderator so it's moved as comment of each answer or just deleted.

Answers that do not fundamentally answer the question may be removed. This includes answers that are:

  • commentary on the question or other answers

https://stackoverflow.com/help/deleted-answers

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    I don't think it should be deleted, as 1. it does provide some useful information, even though I don't like it, and 2. mods don't really need to get involved imo. Lastly, can moderators convert answers to comments when the answerer has less than 50 reputation?
    – 10 Rep
    Commented Nov 20, 2020 at 19:18
  • 7
  • "may be removed" - agree, once wrong answers it refers are deleted. Until then it adds valuable information and while it's not a solution, it's an expert opinion on a subject, which should be kept for a while. Think of value of this answer to visitors. It's higher than other (wrong) answers.
    – Sinatr
    Commented Nov 23, 2020 at 8:43
  • @Sinatr if the other answers didn't exist, would that answer be capable of standing on its own? That's why answering the question asked is a hard requirement. Otherwise why have comments and answers as separated posts?
    – Braiam
    Commented Nov 23, 2020 at 13:51
  • Most controversial post I've seen with +21/-21
    – 10 Rep
    Commented Dec 22, 2020 at 22:09
-5

If it doesn't directly address the question, by definition it doesn't answer it so therefore no it's not an answer.

That's not the root problem though. The root problem is that people have constructive things to say but the reputation scoring system is preventing them from contributing in an appropriate manner.

The real question is which is more beneficial?

  1. To allow people to contribute even if they haven't jumped through all the hoops, potentially allowing noise through at the same time
  2. To enforce the hoops, while giving people headaches who are new to the site
2
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    Number 2. Yeah, definitely number 2. Commented Nov 23, 2020 at 16:19
  • 1
    It seems that there must be a third option...
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Nov 23, 2020 at 22:48

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