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Recently, I failed this late answer audit.

The answer seemed pretty clear as an answer and I don't even know why it was deleted by a moderator.

It says that the OP should use the latest version of gradle and android plugin, specifying which are and where to go to update them.

So, is this really a bad audit? What should I have done?

  • editing: the post looks ok and doesn't need an edit.
  • downvote: I don't think it deserves that. I am not familiar, though.
  • comment: about the topic: unfamiliar, about the answer: everything is fine
  • flagging: as mentioned the post looks ok
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    For "late answers", it really pays to be familiar in the tags of the posts you are reviewing.
    – yivi
    Commented Apr 1, 2019 at 12:55
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    Do note the timeline on it. There's a curious delete, undelete, delete (probably a sticky mousebutton judging by the timestamp), then it's used for an audit 3 times, and all 3 users failed. Screenshot for <10K
    – Erik A
    Commented Apr 1, 2019 at 12:55
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    Personally, if I'm not familiar enough with the technology to know if I should upvote or downvote, I believe "skip" is the correct action.
    – yivi
    Commented Apr 1, 2019 at 12:58
  • So, it might be a good option to ping @CodyGray (if he gets notified), so that he can explain us, if there were any flags, why he delete the answer and also why the delete-undelete-delete thing, if it was accidental or not. Commented Apr 1, 2019 at 17:07
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    Even if it was deleted accidentally (doubt it), the general principle still applies. If you don’t know enough to determine if you should upvote or downvote; why choose “no action needed”? That’s not a good use of the “late answers” queue.
    – yivi
    Commented Apr 1, 2019 at 17:13
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    My favourite review audit hassle (of a couple of days ago) goes like this: Late Answer queue: I see rubbish answer. I click into question to see what's going on (which you effectively have to, with Late Answers). I see that answer has gone, and that there is a nice new one posted by someone else. I return to review and hit No Action Needed (because it isn't). I fail audit. Aarghhh.
    – MandyShaw
    Commented Apr 1, 2019 at 17:33
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    @MandyShaw That is a bit of a UX problem with the review queues, I'll admit. And I'm sorry for the frustration. If I could fix it, I would. The way to think about this is, the "no action needed" button means "this post is fine". It wasn't: it was so bad that it needed to be removed.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Apr 1, 2019 at 18:51
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    @double-beep you left out possibly the most important option: skip.
    – TylerH
    Commented Apr 3, 2019 at 15:07
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    @MandyShaw When you click into a question and see an answer is already deleted, it's usually an audit.
    – Clonkex
    Commented Apr 4, 2019 at 5:52

1 Answer 1

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The intention of my delete-undelete-delete dance was to ensure that the deleted answer was not chosen by the system as an audit. Umm…that strategy apparently failed. You weren't the only one who got this as a review audit. Sorry about that.

I was told that this dance would work to prevent a mod-deleted post from being chosen as an audit. I will find out why it didn't work, and what I need to do instead, so that this doesn't happen again.

Regarding the answer itself, it's quite useless. If you check the date of the question as compared to the answer, you'll see that the answer provided cannot possibly be the solution because those versions did not exist when the question was asked. Possibly the answer could be saying, "The version you have contains a bug, and it was fixed in version x", but…that's not what the answer actually says.

It's really just an extremely low-effort "try upgrading" answer, akin to a "try restarting" answer, neither of which are remotely useful. I happily delete these, even though flagging them is complicated.

As for what to do when presented with answers like this in a review queue, it depends on whether you have the requisite domain knowledge to judge whether or not it's useless. If you do, handle it accordingly: downvote and, if appropriate, delete. If you don't, Skip.

I'll quote yivi's comments, in order to amplify their stellar advice:

Personally, if I'm not familiar enough with the technology to know if I should upvote or downvote, I believe "skip" is the correct action.

If you don’t know enough to determine if you should upvote or downvote; why choose “no action needed”? That’s not a good use of the “late answers” queue.

If you wouldn't upvote a post you see in a review queue, it's exceedingly unlikely that "No Action Needed" is the correct choice. Since you generally shouldn't upvote answers where you are unfamiliar with the relevant technology, and you'll probably be able to effectively edit if you are familiar with the relevant technology, it's actually quite rare that you should be saying "No Action Needed" when reviewing answers.

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    I hardly ever select No Action Needed in Late answers (last 3-5 days). This was a special case, where formatting, grammar and everything looked OK to me. And the answer looked also like answer. So, yeah, it was not a good audit item. Commented Apr 1, 2019 at 19:04
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    Now I would like to disagree with you. According to another mod, answers like 'restart' are valid and he has declined flags on mine on these, so I find no reason to delete them; note also that the particular answer contained much more information (i.e. you will have to (install) the latest version..., etc, etc.). Commented Apr 2, 2019 at 11:36
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    The answer contained no useful information whatsoever, and was not relevant to the question. If you aren't sure, Skip. Yes, you need a minimum amount of technical knowledge in the relevant subject matter to be able to properly review an answer. That is by design.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Apr 2, 2019 at 17:31
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    I hadn't seen you had disagreed with me, @double-beep. In "late answers" you are judging not only if an answer should be deleted, but general quality. There is a reason the voting buttons are available (they aren't in some queues). Do not click "no action needed" if you can't judge the answer quality on your own. If you haven't read it, this guide is really helpful to avoid falling into this situations. Good luck!
    – yivi
    Commented Apr 3, 2019 at 6:18
  • @yivi It's almost like you should have some minimum score in a tag to see answers for it in the late answers queue
    – TylerH
    Commented Apr 3, 2019 at 15:03
  • @CodyGray What value does "this was a bug in version Y and it was fixed in X" provide that "You will have to have the latest version of gradle and android plugin which are Y and X" does not? I can't think of any value, let alone enough value that it would mean the difference between you deleting the answer or not. Either way, the useful information is "you need a different version", which is what was provided in the answer.
    – TylerH
    Commented Apr 3, 2019 at 15:06
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    "If you check the date of the question as compared to the answer, you'll see that the answer provided cannot possibly be the solution because those versions did not exist when the question was asked" - that... doesn't seem like good reasoning to me. The fact that a particular solution wasn't available to use at the time the question was asked doesn't make it any less of a solution. One could just as well argue that, say, this isn't an answer because String.prototype.includes didn't exist when the question was asked.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Apr 3, 2019 at 15:24
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    @TylerH There is real value to identifying in such an answer the specific version in which the bug was fixed, which is that it allows a future reader to immediately check whether they are already on a version with the fix or not. I'd consider an answer without that detail to be irritatingly incomplete. But I do agree that it shouldn't by itself be sufficient grounds for deletion.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Apr 3, 2019 at 15:26
  • @MarkAmery I agree, it is most useful to know exactly which version, but I think saying that the latest version can do the thing is also useful enough to merit an answer, albeit not the best/perfect one.
    – TylerH
    Commented Apr 3, 2019 at 15:27
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    @TylerH "I think saying that the latest version can do the thing is also useful enough to merit an answer" - yes... although I take Cody's point that this answer doesn't even manage to do that clearly. All the same, I don't think this is one of those "exceptions" that the moderators are meant to be handling. It seems like a crap answer - it's presented without detail or substantiation, it's unclear why it's even suggesting upgrading, and based on the votes, I assume it's incorrect as a solution to the problem - but I think such crap answers are adequately handled with downvotes.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Apr 3, 2019 at 15:32
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    @Mark For starters, I think we may disagree philosophically here. Downvotes are a great way to deal with crap answers. A better way to deal with them is to have them removed. So, naturally, that's something I think is helpful for moderators to be involved in. Is it their highest priority? No. Should you flag it? Meh, probably not, for a variety of reasons. But is it a problem if moderators delete these? Heck no; not to me. It makes for a terrible audit, though, and that's on me, as stated above. I thought I was addressing that issue, but I had bad info. The dance only works on spam audits.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Apr 5, 2019 at 0:38
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    @Mark But more specifically, I do completely understand what you're saying about timeframe. An answer recommending something that didn't exist at the time the question was asked is a great answer. I have no problem with that. My point here is more that the answer is not saying "this was a bug in version Y and it was fixed in X". At best, it's just saying "try upgrading". I don't think that's at all useful. There is no redeeming value in this answer. Furthermore, the other answers already demonstrate that it's not just a bug in version Y, so upgrading is irrelevant to the solution.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Apr 5, 2019 at 0:41
  • @CodyGray I think possibly we do have some philosophical disagreement; I think downvoting is a "good enough" solution to most bad content, and that mods deleting conceivably useful answers based on their subjective judgements of its crapness risks some ultimately good but smelly and badly-presented answers getting swept away, and so should be done only very cautiously.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Apr 5, 2019 at 11:09
  • @CodyGray In this case, though, you did in fact meet that standard - you weren't just deleting based upon the answer superficially seeming to be a "try upgrading" answer, but had also carefully determined that it was incorrect and that upgrading wouldn't help. So in this case, I've got no beef with your actions. I only object to some of the rationale given; the timing-based reason you gave in this answer was obviously fallacious, and I more broadly think that casually deleting "try upgrading" answers without the level of justification you've ultimately provided here would be wrong.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Apr 5, 2019 at 11:11

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