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The criteria for burnination in the FAQ post are unacceptably poor.

They state,

  1. Does it describe the contents of the questions to which it is applied? and is it unambiguous?
  2. Is the concept described even on-topic for the site?
  3. Does the tag add any meaningful information to the post?
  4. Does it mean the same thing in all common contexts?

A tag must fail all of these tests in order to be considered for burnination

Consider these points:

  • Q4 is a subset of Q1. A tag that means different things in different contexts is ambiguous.
  • Q2 alone is reason enough to burn a tag. Off topic tags have no place here.
  • You may not be able to evaluate Q2 if it fails Q1. Some meanings might be on topic while others are not.
  • Q3 can be argued to be "yes" for literally any tag because communicating information is what words do. Just because the word conveys information doesn't mean it's a good tag. In particular, users often argue a tag has meaning in context, but this necessarily means it fails Q1 (is ambiguous on its own).

Furthermore, Shog's source post clearly states it's his personal list, not strict rules for the process. Omitting the additional explanation from the original makes them even worse. And that post certainly does not require a tag to strictly meet all the criteria. It's focus is entirely on practical considerations when you read down into the details, not strict adherence to a set of rules. They are only guidelines for evaluating whether burning a tag is a productive endeavor.

As written in the FAQ, the burnination criteria are a jumbled mess of self contradictory requirements that can be easily abused to argue against burnination in nearly all cases. We must improve this situation. How can the guidance be reworked to convey the original intentions without being actively harmful? Just expanding on what's there is insufficient. They need to be totally rewritten.

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    Eh?? What meta-tags which have been worthy of burnination have survived because of these rules?
    – Makoto
    Commented Feb 13, 2019 at 23:18
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    @Makoto It doesn't matter. The FAQ should be clear, unambiguous, and useful. Are you arguing that this set of rules actually makes any sense? Because that's the whole point: they make no sense as written.
    – jpmc26
    Commented Feb 13, 2019 at 23:19
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    "Q2 alone is reason enough to burn a tag" No, it isn't. Or we'd burn the tag [python] because large, non-venomous snakes have nothing to do whatsoever with programming.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Feb 13, 2019 at 23:20
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    Honestly I haven't had a problem with the criterion. Now, while I don't disagree with your call for disambiguity, I'm eager to hear of a scenario in which ambiguity was introduced which led to a tag which should have been burninated surviving.
    – Makoto
    Commented Feb 13, 2019 at 23:21
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    @CodyGray I don't see anything about non-venomous snakes in the python description. Do you? Python is a programming language.
    – jpmc26
    Commented Feb 13, 2019 at 23:21
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    Oh, so it's all about what the tag wiki says? Kinda like a whoever-gets-there-first situation? I don't think the tag system would benefit from a more Wild West-style approach. Anyway, I'm happy to hear your suggestions for burnination criteria. I don't see any in your question.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Feb 13, 2019 at 23:22
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    Do you not thing there should be burnination criteria because nothing should be burninated, everything should be burnated, or because you want people to decide without any criteria?
    – Servy
    Commented Feb 13, 2019 at 23:26
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    Tags to be burninated don't always fail all of those tests, though, right? Often enough, the answer to a test is "sometimes" or "moderately" rather than "yes" or "no". I wonder if those tests are there to provoke discussion rather than to stand as ironclad rules which must be followed. And, if that's the case, I agree that it would be good for said post to clarify that (rather than to say that a tag must fail all tests to be burninated) Commented Feb 13, 2019 at 23:27
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    @Servy I want good criteria that are sensible, lead to good tag usage, and are useful in evaluating a burnination request. These are clearly not that, and I've outlined some reasons why not. In fact, I'd appreciate better guidance about what kinds of burns we want to do.
    – jpmc26
    Commented Feb 13, 2019 at 23:28
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    @jpmc26 You said that you didn't provide any criteria that you think are better because you thought it was pointless and should just be removed entirely. Now you're saying they're useful and should just be better, at which point, as mentioned earlier, do you have a suggestion of better criteria?
    – Servy
    Commented Feb 13, 2019 at 23:31
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    Why is this not an exact duplicate of meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/366186/…?
    – Travis J
    Commented Feb 13, 2019 at 23:35
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    @Servy Also, insisting that I must provide a better suggestion is like insisting that I have to be able to cure cancer to call it a problem.
    – jpmc26
    Commented Feb 13, 2019 at 23:35
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    @jpmc26 Saying, "cancer is a problem, someone should cure it, the existing remedies aren't great and so I'd like to see something better" isn't really helpful. If you don't actually have something useful to add to that discussion, such as how someone may be able to actually address that problem, at least in part, in a new way, it's just not really adding anything of value to the discussion.
    – Servy
    Commented Feb 13, 2019 at 23:40
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    @Servy: "Saying, "cancer is a problem, someone should cure it, the existing remedies aren't great and so I'd like to see something better" isn't really helpful." Sure it is. If everyone believes that cancer is just fine and nobody is doing anything about it, identifying a problem is the first step in solving it. Which is what the OP is saying here: we all think there isn't a problem, but there is. Granted, I don't really buy into that, but suggesting a solution is not required for this to be a productive discussion. Though it would help, as it would make it clearer what the problem is. Commented Feb 14, 2019 at 2:16
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    They should also be strengthened to demonstrate clear evidence of harm caused by the tag, IMO. But I haven't got the time or strength to climb that mountain and die on it.
    – jscs
    Commented Feb 14, 2019 at 18:25

1 Answer 1

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Fine, I'll bite...

Q4 is a subset of Q1. A tag that means different things in different contexts is ambiguous.

Fair, but this is a simple wording nuance. If you remove the second question from Q1, then Q1 and Q4 can stand independently.

Q2 alone is reason enough to burn a tag. Off topic tags have no place here.

This doesn't manifest itself immediately. For example, for a time people thought it was okay to tag their questions with or , but neither of those tags actually describe anything besides the companies which have made technology. You can't guarantee if someone who tagged a post with one of those was talking about Clippy instead of .NET, or the Beach Ball of Doom as opposed to Objective-C.

You may not be able to evaluate Q2 if it fails Q1. Some meanings might be on topic while others are not.

I argue you can.

Take, for example, . I'm not keeping it a secret that I want this tag burned, for full disclosure's sake.

Q1 asks if the tag describes the contents of the question. In effect, doesn't, given that you may be referring to any of their IDEs instead of a particular IDE. Q2 asks if the concept is on topic, and IDEs are indeed on-topic here.

Where we run into trouble is that describes the company, not the products. Having used most of them, PyCharm is not the same as IntelliJ, even though the UI is similar, there's a lot of leeway given for projects in PyCharm than there is in IntelliJ. And the behavior of those is flat-out different at times.

Q3 can be argued to be "yes" for literally any tag because communicating information is what words do. Just because the word conveys information doesn't mean it's a good tag. In particular, users often argue a tag has meaning in context, but this necessarily means it fails Q1 (is ambiguous on its own).

If I tag a question with , I have contributed no value to the post. As I've already established, there's nothing in that tag to illustrate what I mean when I'm referring to with that tag alone. It's like if someone asked you to help them with their computer problem and it turned out they had an issue with logging into Facebook - the fact that they had a "computer" problem did nothing to describe or categorize the specific "online website" problem that they had.


I eagerly await your suggestion for better criterion. I stated this before - I'm not opposed to disambiguity. I just fail to see any ambiguity as it stands.

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    The other aspect of Q4 is "common" context. [fix] for example, has different meanings in common context, including OT stuff like fixing code, but it is quite unambiguous, as all the questions are related to the [fix-protocol].
    – Bhargav Rao Mod
    Commented Feb 13, 2019 at 23:47
  • Thanks. I appreciate an answer. I feel like all of your examples fail ambiguity, though, and not off-topic. As companies that specialize in the technologies that make the field of software expertise possible, I wouldn't regard any of them as inherently off topic. The fact that they don't provide any specificity about what's being asked seems to be the fundamental problem. So according to "must fail all," we shouldn't burn them, right? Or can you at least see why I would find these examples confusing?
    – jpmc26
    Commented Feb 13, 2019 at 23:47
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    @jpmc26: Topicality can be borne of this discussion. Is it really topical to ask about a company? Probably not. Consider it from this perspective - if this were the only tag on a question, would it still be a useful question? For instance, if you wanted to tag a question as microsoft, what would you really be asking about?
    – Makoto
    Commented Feb 13, 2019 at 23:54
  • So, let me point out the "straw that broke the camel's back" that led me to post this question: an answer on burning eject. eject also fails in exactly the same way here. By itself, it adds nothing. It's ambiguous to the point that it could never stand alone. Yet it's being argued to be "on topic" and "add meaningful information." And this isn't a new user that doesn't understand on-topicness. It's a veteran who's been active on Meta for the better part of a decade. So it doesn't seem to be as clear cut as you suggest.
    – jpmc26
    Commented Feb 14, 2019 at 0:12
  • Or maybe it's susceptible to broadening to the point of uselessness as a criteria, which is what I argued originally. There seems to be some kind of inconsistency in understanding what the criteria means and how to apply it, bare minimum.
    – jpmc26
    Commented Feb 14, 2019 at 0:17
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    There will always be some interpretation from people.
    – Walfrat
    Commented Feb 14, 2019 at 15:29
  • @Walfrat Of course, but doesn't contradictory interpretation from different people imply that there's some kind of problem with the presentation of what they're interpreting?
    – jpmc26
    Commented Feb 14, 2019 at 22:02

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