37

Occasionally, I'll see questions with 3 or 4 upvotes and no answers that were closed years ago and have had no activity since.

I understand the purpose of keeping high-quality duplicates around (because they serve as signposts for other questions), but really, what's the point of keeping something that was closed unanswered 8 years ago and hasn't seen any activity since?

After a certain period of inactivity, the question is highly unlikely to ever be reopened, and the questions aren't adding any value (no answers, not pointing to other questions). In many cases (such as questions about general computing or resource recommendation requests), the question is intrinsically off-topic and could not be edited into shape.

Assuming that a question wasn't edited after being closed and no one has voted to reopen it, these questions should just Roomba.

I'm only suggesting that this happen for questions that were closed for some reason other than being a duplicate. High-quality duplicates can still serve a useful purpose by helping people find the correct answer.

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    Knowing that a question does not have an answer is important. Commented Jul 6, 2018 at 20:41
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    @HansPassant If something's just been sitting there for years without activity, I'm not sure what good it's doing (especially since people can't actually answer the question). Out of curiosity, what action would you be likely to take as a result of knowing that? I suppose that, if someone really wanted to answer, they could create their own question and answer it, but if the original question wasn't salvageable through editing the new question would probably be closed for the same reason. Commented Jul 6, 2018 at 20:58
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    Google hits are activity as well, the actually important kind. Commented Jul 6, 2018 at 21:01
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    @HansPassant That's true - but what good would that do if it doesn't have any answers and no one can answer it? Wouldn't it just cause people frustration to get their hopes up only to see that there aren't any answers? Seems like a poor experience to me at best. Plus, it seems like if people really like the question so much they should try to salvage it through editing so that it can be reopened - if no one can (or will) do that, it seems kinda pointless to keep it around. Commented Jul 6, 2018 at 21:05
  • 3
    If this rule were to be implemented, an exception should be made for duplicates. I strongly prefer upvoted duplicates without answers above ones with them, as they do serve as signposts, but they don't give rep to people answering them.
    – Erik A
    Commented Jul 6, 2018 at 21:05
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    @ivarni That one isn't closed either. An unsolvable problem doesn't need to be closed. If we just stick to the ones that got closed, we'll likely not lose much value.
    – Erik A
    Commented Jul 6, 2018 at 21:12
  • 4
    @ErikvonAsmuth I agree - duplicates still have at least some value in that they direct people to an answer, which is a lot more useful than just having a "dead" closed question around that no one is doing anything with and doesn't necessarily have any information on how to fix the problem. Commented Jul 6, 2018 at 21:27
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    There are currently 7392 of those questions. Commented Jul 6, 2018 at 23:39
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    I'm amazed that this has sat for 16 hours without the obligatory XKCD. If you're finding these questions in your searches, that implies that they could be useful. Have you tried editing one into shape to see what happens?
    – Dave
    Commented Jul 7, 2018 at 13:02
  • 4
    I have a question for everyone in the comment section who says those questions are useful: If they're useful, why are they closed? If they're useful, they should be reopened. If they're not, they should be deleted. What's the point of keeping a closed question around?
    – Aran-Fey
    Commented Jul 7, 2018 at 15:11
  • 3
    I get a lot of value out of these actually, as they inform me they are likely unsolved problems. If anything, they should not be deleted, they should be highlighted. Maybe with a bounty or something. And who knows why people close some things. It seems to be a popular activity.
    – Mike Wise
    Commented Jul 7, 2018 at 15:11
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    Questions with unsolved problems are not closed when they are suitable to the site. There is no "unsolvable" close reason. And this is fine.
    – E_net4
    Commented Jul 7, 2018 at 17:35
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    @Hack-R there is already a workflow for such questions. It's called roomba Commented Jul 7, 2018 at 18:12
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    @Aran-Fey Right now, a single upvote can be enough to prevent a question from ever being deleted, even if the question is closed and has no answers. That one upvote could mean the question is "useful"… but it could also just mean someone clicked the wrong button. Or that someone else wanted an answer to the same off-topic question.
    – user149341
    Commented Jul 7, 2018 at 19:38
  • 3
    I hate automatic deletion. I put in effort to type a question only for it to get deleted by a bot? What a garbage system! Check out my user profile. I made a list of my roomba'd questions that I want undeleted.
    – clickbait
    Commented Jul 8, 2018 at 5:54

5 Answers 5

10

I agree with the basic premise of the question.

A question which has no answer, and cannot be answered because it is not on-topic here, does not add any value to our site; it just disappoints future readers:

XKCD

source: XKCD as Dave commented.

That said, I see some danger in mass-deleting every question. A few things to consider:

  • Duplicates shouldn't be deleted. They add value for future visitors which may search with other keywords. We all were beginners some times ago, where we asked question in words, we nowadays wouldn't use anymore.

  • Maybe (even if very unlikely, since the question were closed for a huge time) they can be salvaged. If it's the case, I wouldn't want to delete a question. Upvotes are a sign that someone might find them useful

  • Sometimes we have relevant pointers in the comments
  • The question it self could be be half an answer, which is pointing some reader into some direction, but failed to be reasonable scoped
  • Unlikely, but possible: It could be incorrectly closed
  • Possibly more exceptions

Remember: We are speaking about upvoted questions.

That said, we have only 7392 such questions. Credits to Donald Duck.

Given the time period Stack Overflow is living, this is nothing compared to the items we have to review in the queues.

So I propose: Yes, but please not automatically. Maybe we could create a dedicated review queue for it. Given above number, this doesn't seem to create much moderation overhead.

If we go the review route, I would also suggest to allow only the people, who have obtained the delete vote privilege (>10k).


Just for clarification: The chance that such question should be deleted is very high. I just do not want to auto-delete upvoted questions without having an additional consensus by some human exception handlers. There is a small chance that the question can be still helpful, maybe it is even incorrectly closed.

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    This argument is invalid, since if no info came up about your issue, you should just ask about it.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jul 7, 2018 at 19:12
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    @Braiam I'm not sure what you're getting at here. What "issue" are you referring to? Who are you recommending should "just ask about it"?
    – user149341
    Commented Jul 7, 2018 at 19:20
  • @duskwuff what are questions usually about? Issues, no? If you can't find information about your issue, you should just ask about your issue.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jul 7, 2018 at 19:29
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    @Braiam are you sure, you are on the right question? This is about deleting question, not about asking them. Commented Jul 7, 2018 at 19:30
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    Mh, even if the time is extended, I am not realy a big fan of some automatic deletion. That a question is positive voted sends a strong signal, which does not justify auto deletion imho. @duskwuff Commented Jul 7, 2018 at 19:37
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    @BSMP People may not do an edit for a variety of reasons that has nothing to do with whether it can be "salvaged" or not. Edits take time and thought. And it may be that people coming to a post with a particular context that is similar to what the original poster had may not find many problems with the posting as it is written. The shared context provides the necessary background information to read into what is written in a way that people without the context can not do. All you can know about a question that has not been edited and improved is that no one who has seen it decided to do so. Commented Jul 8, 2018 at 1:33
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    I understand you @BSMP, and ofcorse the chance it should be deleted is very high. I just do not want to auto-delete upvoted questions without having an additional consensus by some humans. Commented Jul 8, 2018 at 2:11
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    Landing on a 404 page or not being able to find a question at all are even more disappointing to future readers.
    – clickbait
    Commented Jul 8, 2018 at 5:58
  • 1
    Except that google will stop to index 404 pages. And who is is linking to questions without answers? @sag Commented Jul 8, 2018 at 12:39
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    @ChristianGollhardt Google and other search engines link to questions without answers. I personally have found Google to be a much more reliable way of finding pertinent questions within SO than the SO search. Commented Jul 8, 2018 at 13:26
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    Of corse they do, hence we want to get rid of them. @RichardChambers or did you mean deleted question: Then my point stays, google will remove 404 pages from the index. So in worst case it's a temporary problem. Commented Jul 8, 2018 at 14:40
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    @ChristianGollhardt questions without answers often have usable comments especially when a question is closed within a short time after posting so that the quickest way to provide help to others is through a comment. The whole point is that questions without official answers may still have answers or help in the comments. So at a minimum any deletion should be for questions with no comments and to also provide a time period for people to find and respond to questions including reopen and edits of questions. Commented Jul 8, 2018 at 15:02
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    @SurajJain If you're proposing a change to the close vote system, that probably belongs in a new question.
    – Undo Mod
    Commented Jul 9, 2018 at 2:47
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    @SurajJain It will get downvoted because it is a terrible idea. Moderators need to be able to remove inappropriate content quickly. It's what they are given the mod flag for. Requiring them to get consensus to do so -- or, worse, requiring another moderator to independently spot the problem?! -- would cripple them.
    – user149341
    Commented Jul 9, 2018 at 4:07
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    The question it self could be be half an answer. This helped me many times regardless the question has answer or not.
    – Nagaraju
    Commented Jul 9, 2018 at 10:18
2

I took a brief look at the list of 7392 such questions from Donald Duck and one thing I noticed from the first few I looked at was a single person seemed to have made the decision to close the question.

Looking at https://stackoverflow.com/questions/17733063/vagrant-vs-packer-whats-the-difference which was closed "as primarily opinion-based by Robert Harvey" on what looks to be the same date it was posted, Jul 18, 2013, there are several comments from 2016 and 2017 who question the decision to close the question. Some people comment that the comments helped them find out what they needed and are asking for an actual answer generated from the various comments.

The ability for a single person to just close a question raises a concern about getting rid of these questions.

The fact that they have been upvoted indicates that people are interested in them. That people also upvote comments means that people are interested in that material as well.

Another consideration is the experience and knowledge of people that are using stackoverflow about the mechanics of postings. Whether someone thinks of voting to reopen a question or not requires knowledge of those mechanics and the process/lifecycle for postings. My impression is that there are many people who use the material in stackoverflow with out an account or with an account that has low reputation because they do not indulge in the activities that build rep.

As a side note, I also question whether all questions that have been downvoted, in some cases viciously so, may not be salvageable with an edit.

As an example I was going through greatly downvoted questions and ran across this one What's the difference between return true and return false in OnInit() function of MFC and it struck me that it was actually a reasonable question to ask. From personal experience of spending an hour or two trying to get the search terms right to find out something in the huge swamp that is Microsoft documentation, I could sympathize with the person posting though the original question was a bit too sparse and not well asked.

People had put an answer in the comments, which is often done though supposedly against the intent of stackoverflow, and I merely provided an actual answer. However now the question has more detail to provide context and it is answered. The answer provides not only the immediate information requested but also the background that makes the immediate information more meaningful.

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    "The ability for a single person to just close a question" -- Robert Harvey is a SO moderator, which gives him that power. In almost all other situations, a quorum of 5+ users is usually required to close a question.
    – user149341
    Commented Jul 7, 2018 at 19:23
  • 5
    Most of the ones I looked at were decent and seemed like they were closed when someone was in a bad mood. They have no "answers" because they were closed and hence had to be answered in comments and seemed very useful to long lists of people with similar questions. Minor editing could have put many of them into "the form of a question" or a non opinion based question. The catch-22 problem of a wrongly closed question that people know the answer to again illustrates that point that people don't just answer to get rep, they answer to be helpful to others.
    – Elin
    Commented Jul 7, 2018 at 19:31
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    @duskwuff the point is that a single person made that decision, whether that person is an SO moderator or not. I am not aware that becoming an SO moderator suddenly provides a person with cosmic knowledge and expertise. I've seen dupes handled by a single person and making a post a dupe is closing it. Commented Jul 7, 2018 at 19:41
  • 3
    "Whether someone thinks of voting to reopen a question or not requires knowledge of those mechanics and the process/lifecycle for postings." There is not even a suggestion anywhere in that big orange box that a vote to reopen is possible. I guess for most users it isn't possible, though having worked in the reopen queue I think it must be a rare event. If I see a closed question I want the answer to I just read the comments, it never occurs to me to vote to reopen. How often do reopens even happen?
    – Elin
    Commented Jul 7, 2018 at 19:46
  • @RichardChambers Moderators are explicitly granted the powers to make a lot of unilateral decisions about the site -- not just closing questions, but deleting (or undeleting) questions, answers, or comments; migrating questions to other sites; suspending or deleting users; editing help articles… etc. This is all inherent to the moderator position, and is given to them because they are trusted by the community (or by SE staff).
    – user149341
    Commented Jul 7, 2018 at 20:01
  • @duskwuff Yes, yes, I understand all that about the SO Moderators and the various powers granted to them and the voting and the trust. I've participated in an election or two myself. None of that contradicts the fact that it is one person making a decision with all the good and bad that comes from that. I have done the review queues myself and to do it well can be laborious and require making a decision under circumstances of insufficient knowledge. I have a difficult time doing more than about 10 before I bail out so I respect people who can continue. Commented Jul 8, 2018 at 1:27
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    @duskwuff A Moderator need not be necesarrily correct all times, I myself have flagged to open few questions which were really good and I had same doubt, and they got opened and showed huge activities. I am not raising allegation at moderator, but still we should be open different opinion too.
    – Suraj Jain
    Commented Jul 9, 2018 at 2:41
-1

I disagree with that long ago questions are highly unlikely to ever be reopened assumption.

Have two counter examples, that were wrongly closed, nominated for reopen few times, and after years of being closed finally reopened. (To me they are not only should not have been closed, they are canonical Q&A in their domain)

These are with answers. But nothing prevents the same happening to legitimate unanswered question. One of them was nominated for closure before it was answered.

So I think highly-upvoted may be an indication it was wrongly closed in the first place, and it has chance to be reopened at any time.

-13

The automatic mass-deletion of positively-scored questions clearly violates Stack Overflow's mission: to build the best programming knowledge repository. Closed questions are usually downvoted, but upvoted closed questions are obviously exceptions to this pattern. Upvotes indicate useful, high-quality information. The desire to remove upvoted questions, although unanswered, is an extreme form of the deletionist philosophy and must be stopped!

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    The questions we're discussing here are closed questions. They're typically closed because they are unanswerable as asked, or because they are off-topic on this site. There is no "knowledge" or "high-quality information" being preserved by keeping them.
    – user149341
    Commented Jul 8, 2018 at 6:26
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    Questions are soliciting information, not sharing it. How would deleting an unanswered question lead to information loss? Commented Jul 8, 2018 at 8:40
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    @duskwuff however there are examples in the list from Donald Duck which people's comments indicate are valuable and are answerable. Users are directly contradicting your assertion. Commented Jul 8, 2018 at 11:03
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    @EJoshuaS comments are deleted along with the question and there are quite a few times when someone puts a link in a comment which provides either an answer or the breadcrumb trail to the answer. Commented Jul 8, 2018 at 13:24
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    @duskwuff Seriiously this stackoverflow.com/questions/12795850/… question was closed, I flagged and it got opened, it was genuine question. 'There is no "knowledge" or "high-quality information" being preserved by keeping them.' This is false.
    – Suraj Jain
    Commented Jul 9, 2018 at 2:44
  • 2
    @EJoshuaS The value of closed questions depends on why it was closed IMO, but deleting open unanswered questions can certainly result in information loss-- e.g., indirect uses: 1) It gives a vague hint if I'm searching, 2) it may give some sample code, which is better than no sample code at all sometimes, 3) if users are following MVCE and research guidelines there's already some information in the post that a searcher might not know, 4) if I'm just digging to remind myself of common mistakes for training reasons I can get back into the head of somebody who doesn't know something.
    – jrh
    Commented Jul 16, 2018 at 20:24
-13

Only 7392 questions?

I say put 'em all in the reopen queue.

Maybe not all at once. Say, 500 per day. Half a month later, done.

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    To clarify: I expect that most of them will not actually be reopened. They may even be deleted, or migrated to another SE site like Software Recommendations.
    – jkdev
    Commented Jul 9, 2018 at 3:38
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    Migration isn't an option for most questions. Questions have to be less than 60 days old to be migrated, and most questions won't be migration candidates. (Keep in mind that SR is not a dumping ground for questions rejected from SO. Their focus is even narrower than ours.)
    – user149341
    Commented Jul 9, 2018 at 4:09
  • There isn't a standard migration path to Software Recommendations, so moderators would have to do it even if the questions were less than 60 days old. (It's actually probably good because most people don't understand exactly when to migrate). Truthfully, the vast majority of recommendation questions are garbage questions that attract garbage answers anyway. Commented Jul 16, 2018 at 20:49
  • @EJoshuaS All the more reason why they should be quickly transferred to the site where they’re on topic... right?
    – jkdev
    Commented Jul 16, 2018 at 21:39

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