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The review system has proven to be faulty several times. The audit system seems to assume that questions with a lot of upvotes are valid for audits.

For instance, this question is way too broad; I received a ban for this which recently got lifted.

The ban was to span 2 weeks.

Today I received another ban on another question which does not deserve to be an audit. This ban is to span a month and 4 days.

Lifted bans should not increase the accumulated time on the ban. I've been using the review queues for years. In the beginning I had my fair share of mistakes, but I've grown and I've been meticulously reading and making sure I make the right decision on each question.

As a Feature Request/Bug Fix: review bans that are lifted should not accumulate time.

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    Possible duplicate of Add an "I don't understand" or "I disagree" button after failing an audit
    – Servy
    Commented Feb 16, 2018 at 16:00
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    These are 2 feature requests. (1) That review bans lifted by a moderator, should not count against the increasing review ban duration. (2) A review queue for bad audits. Commented Feb 16, 2018 at 16:03
  • @S.L.Barth yeah, and 1 question what is the current formal process for lifting a ban
    – johnny 5
    Commented Feb 16, 2018 at 16:03
  • @Servy, I've editing my question to be more relevant
    – johnny 5
    Commented Feb 16, 2018 at 16:06
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    So we have 3 questions? I'd really like to stick to nr (1): that moderator-lifted review bans do not count for the increasing ban duration. Commented Feb 16, 2018 at 16:08
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    Honestly I'm reminded of this post in which a user who has reviewed a lot of posts finds themselves at the end of a rather lengthy review ban due to them simply accruing a lot of review bans. May be worth a skim.
    – Makoto
    Commented Feb 16, 2018 at 16:12
  • @Makoto yes this post was the reason is why I've taken my review bans more seriously in the first place
    – johnny 5
    Commented Feb 16, 2018 at 16:17
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    Have you? Your review suspension is already over a month. It takes some doing to accrue that many suspensions to get to that length.
    – Makoto
    Commented Feb 16, 2018 at 16:19
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    @Makoto, the last 4/5 of my ban's have been undeserving. I've only started complaining on the last one when I noticed Unhelig was banned for a year, which even if they are lifted are still accumulating time
    – johnny 5
    Commented Feb 16, 2018 at 16:21
  • I've edited this question so it's specific to the bug/feature request I'll create a new one soon for the current process for lifiting review bans
    – johnny 5
    Commented Feb 16, 2018 at 16:22
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    For the record: I reviewed Johnny's review actions before when they were banned, and both then and this time the ban was unjust and the audit wrong. Bad luck, twice.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented Feb 16, 2018 at 16:37
  • @MartijnPieters: I wonder what that means for the feature request. Is it the case then that a manual overturning doesn't "wipe the slate clean" as it were if the bans really were unjust?
    – Makoto
    Commented Feb 16, 2018 at 16:38
  • @Makoto: I'm still trying to figure out how the system is supposed to work (without manual unbanning).
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented Feb 16, 2018 at 16:38
  • @DonaldDuck They've completed edited the question like 5 different times now to radically change what the question was asking. At the time I cast the vote, it was a duplicate.
    – Servy
    Commented Feb 16, 2018 at 16:59

1 Answer 1

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The logic for calculating automatic review bans is described here: Review bans should escalate beyond 30 days

As you can see, moderators may already adjust the duration of the next automatic ban by imposing a manual ban of an explicit length - the next ban will be either double or half of that length, depending on the length of time between the end of the ban and the beginning of the next one.

Simply lifting a ban doesn't do anything to adjust this, and I think it should stay that way; this should be a conscious decision by a moderator. The entire point of implementing this system was to give moderators a bit more control over the process, which was plagued previously by a handful of people who would routinely get themselves banned once every 30 days with the moderators unable to do anything to stop it; the present system gives them the opportunity to intervene at will.

So... Should we? Let's have a look at the two audits you cite:

  • Python - match and parse strings containing numeric/currency amounts

    I'll defer to Martijn's considerable expertise here, but this doesn't strike me as particularly blatant; apart from the throw-away NLP comment at the end, it's a basic "how do I parse multiple number formats" question, with what seems like a perfectly adequate (and short) answer. You may have seen something here that I'm missing (though see notes below), but my gut impulse would've been to edit the badly-formatted list and restructure the title... Not close.

  • Implementing a language in Haskell: dynamic typing for polymorphic functions?

    I don't know jack about Haskell; after carefully reading this, it looks like he's trying to implement multi-dispatch in a language that he's implementing, and is looking for guidance on how to structure his runtime to accommodate that. But like I said, I don't know much about Haskell. Do you? I'd have just skipped it.

Now... You might be able to convince me that my gut impulse is wrong on both of these questions. To be fair, I only spent maybe 30-40 seconds reading each one; I haven't exactly put a ton of thought into either...

...but then, you spent a hair over six seconds reading them before failing the audits, so I have a hard time believing that these failures were the result of a deep, nuanced take on the questions.

Quick reviews aren't always a bad thing; you passed this audit in 2.6 seconds, presumably because an asker who identifies a COM bug can do no wrong. And you passed this one in 4 seconds, presumably because it takes 3 seconds to find the 'spam' button in the flag dialog.

But a question consisting of multiple paragraphs in a language you don't regularly use probably warrants a few extra seconds worth of reading before you make a call.

So, tell you what: I'll reduce the review ban to 7 days. That means your next ban is going to be 2 weeks if you get banned again in the next 30, or 3 days if you get banned again after that.

And in exchange, I request that you please spend significantly more than 6 seconds reading non-trivial questions.

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  • thanks I will take more time in the future but. The first question showed no attempt to solve the problem and the specific question they asked is too broad just like the second question as well. I base my reviews mostly on 2 things. 1. Is the op making an attempt to solve the problem. 2. Does the question they ask have finite? When I see questions like “does anyone have any suggestions” or “is this an nlp problem” reflect either way to broad questions or yes or no question whose intentions really are to specific. These questions should be direct towards software.stackexchange
    – johnny 5
    Commented Feb 16, 2018 at 17:01
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    Folks are frequently lazy with their language, johnny; an awful lot of the time this can just be edited out without changing the question. I see your / Martijn's point on the Python question, but the first few comments under it suggest he got talked out of NLP pretty quickly - removing that leaves a question about parsing currency (which... may very well still be a duplicate, but...)
    – Shog9 Mod
    Commented Feb 16, 2018 at 17:03
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    @johnny5: I'd argue that what you're scanning the question for are good indicators of a question that's too broad or off-topic, but they're not definitively going to tell you that a question is off-topic by itself.
    – Makoto
    Commented Feb 16, 2018 at 17:08
  • @Shog9, I agree but should I be reviewing based off of what questions could be derrived from what they are asking or what the question is itself.
    – johnny 5
    Commented Feb 16, 2018 at 17:13
  • You're asked - in Triage at least - if the question is Ok, Salvageable, or Unsalvageable. So in effect, you are asked to predict what the likely outcome is. If you think you could edit to fix the problems, then its reasonable to expect others will feel the same way.
    – Shog9 Mod
    Commented Feb 16, 2018 at 17:16
  • @Makoto I agree that is not the sole factors in determining whether a question is off topic, but you should at bare minimum form a question on stack that is coherent. Asking for suggestion on architecture, is almost always too broad. Occasionally there are question that do benefit the community but are still not valid SO Questions. These questions are allowed but they do not warrent being correct. We should not have to figure out what possible valid question could be derrived from what they have provided. At bare minimum they should provide a question which has an answer based on truth
    – johnny 5
    Commented Feb 16, 2018 at 17:19
  • ...You may be critically missing the point here @johnny5. Shog is far more merciful than I in this circumstance. I think I'll just...leave it at that.
    – Makoto
    Commented Feb 16, 2018 at 17:20
  • @Shog9, but you could say that almost any question is Salvageable, but if you vote that way then you are in risk of receiving a ban.
    – johnny 5
    Commented Feb 16, 2018 at 17:20
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    You could say that, but then you could drop this whole programming thing and join a philosophers commune and spend your days gazing at the clouds and debating the fundamental nature of the universe as it applies to other people... In practice, we all kinda know that there's a line somewhere; we don't always agree on precisely where it is, but there are plenty of questions that are obviously just never going to get fixed and when enough people agree on that it's usually true.
    – Shog9 Mod
    Commented Feb 16, 2018 at 17:22
  • @Shog9, I think I have a slight heavy hand when it comes to marking something unsalvagable. When I first started asking question, a lot of my questions were unsalvagable, but each time that occured it taught me how to write and ask better questions. Now all of my questions are clear and usually get answer (if someone has the knowledge). There are already tons of questions making it in that are invalid. Isn't it better to filter these questions, and teach the posters to ask better questions, rather than give the benefit of the doubt, and take the chance of the OP leaving a bad question
    – johnny 5
    Commented Feb 16, 2018 at 17:32
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    Classification problems are often hard, @johnny5. Once upon a time, I would be tasked with sorting newly-picked apples. Now, a good picker would avoid picking significantly damaged apples or green apples - but when you're up in a tree, it's easy to miss things. So the sort would separate market-ready apples from "seconds" (those that could still be used for cooking or juice) and discard those that were unusable green or damaged, as well as any detritus that fell in with them. But no matter how careful the picker and sorter, the bagger would always find more to discard.
    – Shog9 Mod
    Commented Feb 16, 2018 at 17:37
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    @johnny5 Who are you expecting to personally tutor those tens of thousands of question authors a day asking low quality questions in order to help them get to the point where they can actually ask an acceptable question? Sure, if it wasn't a problem at all to actually do that, that would be great. Turning every bad question into a good one would certainly be preferable to those questions getting, and staying, closed. But it's just not possible. At best the community can only help a tiny fraction of question authors improve their question.
    – Servy
    Commented Feb 16, 2018 at 20:25
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    I see you've provided the time the reviewer looked at the post for before taking an action. Is that information available to mods, or CMs only?
    – iBug
    Commented Feb 17, 2018 at 11:30
  • It's sort of available to mods, @iBug - but not very convenient, and only in aggregate. Keep meaning to do something about that.
    – Shog9 Mod
    Commented Feb 19, 2018 at 22:36

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