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I recently failed an audit in the First Post review queue due to a misclick; I wanted to upvote the answer, but instead I misclicked on the down vote button.

The last audit that I failed, if my memory serves, had occurred 4 - 6 months ago.

I received a 7 day suspension on this, but I was content with it because I considered it was, nonetheless, my mistake. I did not post a meta question, as a result, because I accepted full responsibility for that failed audit.

But around 3 - 4 days into the suspension, I realized the suspension was changed. It has been changed to the maximum duration allowed - one full year. I believe it was a manual one.

For the past month, I realized that I began to review less frequently than I used to; due to time and tiredness, I then purposefully began to skip reviewing some of the queues like LQP, Close Votes, Suggested Edits, and have been fulfilling only 20 reviews within Triage instead of 40.

I have had about 150K reviews altogether amongst all the queues in my history; and to have received a one full year suspension for an automatic audit which the corresponding punishment was originally 7 days seems to be a bit too harsh to me (as mentioned, the last time I failed an audit had occurred around 4 - 6 months ago).

For the reasons I have expressed above, I have begun to review less frequently already; thus, my argument herein focuses on the harshness of the duration and not the fact that I ask it to be lifted because I must review.

I am not asking it to be completed lifted; the original 7 days would sound fair to me.

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    The First Post review queue can review ban you if you vote incorrectly? That seems draconian and wrong. Our up and down votes should be our own choice... and there shouldn't be a ban for simply voting up or down.
    – TylerH
    Commented Aug 7, 2017 at 13:48
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    @TylerH If you get served a "known good audit" (I think it has to be 30d or older, has to have a certain score, has to have no / few downvotes, etc) then the system considers downvoting an audit failure - in the same way that the system considers upvoting a post deleted as spam / naa an audit failure.
    – Magisch
    Commented Aug 7, 2017 at 13:52
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    It's vbeen known to happen that quite blatantly off topic posts get chosen as known good audits because nobody got to downvoting / closing them yet and some people upvoted.
    – Magisch
    Commented Aug 7, 2017 at 13:53
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    Regarding the misclick, I have been banned once or twice for misclicking too. I don't know why the system kicks in when you vote instead of when you click the I'm done button. Even the button suggests that you are aren't done reviewing until you click it (or one of the other buttons). This really needs changing imo.
    – Chris
    Commented Aug 7, 2017 at 14:15
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    @Magisch "in the same way that the system considers upvoting a post deleted as spam / naa an audit failure" - except those things don't seem at all the same. You can upvote for many reasons, but generally it implies that you believe the post is belongs here (upvote and flag, delete or VTC seems illogical). You can also downvote for many reasons, many of which do not imply that you think the post should be closed or removed ("is not useful ... to me personally" is a valid downvote reason, so is "does not show research effort", which is not a reason to close). Commented Aug 7, 2017 at 14:31
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    hmmm here yet another reason I don't bother to help with reviews anymore - too much trouble to be worth it - Guy here is trying to help we tell him to go away for a year and then expect what? Commented Aug 7, 2017 at 14:33
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    @RichardLeMesurier How about reviewing more carefully instead of not reviewing at all?
    – JAL
    Commented Aug 7, 2017 at 14:37
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    @JAL I just find the broken audits too much trouble and annoying - and looking at this audit, I'm not sure why a downvote should be a punishable offence. Commented Aug 7, 2017 at 14:40
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    @RichardLeMesurier The downvote wasn't the only thing that caused the review ban here. 24 review bans were. Misclicking the downvote button one time doesn't cause a review ban.
    – JAL
    Commented Aug 7, 2017 at 14:43
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    @RichardLeMesurier You are comparing the number of review actions with the number of review bans. That is incorrect, as you need to get caught(!) on several severely bad actions for every ban, indicating a significant percentage of overall incorrect actions.
    – Baum mit Augen Mod
    Commented Aug 7, 2017 at 14:48
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    fair enough comment - I think I'm probably adding noise to this thread unneccesarily. Have voted and had my say. Commented Aug 7, 2017 at 14:51
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    @Tetsuya There are both automatic suspensions from reviewing (imposed after failing too many audits), and manual suspensions from reviewing handed out by diamond moderators (imposed after seeing too many wrong decisions).
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Aug 8, 2017 at 7:11
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    @RichardLeMesurier: It's not trying to help that helps the site. It's, y'know, helping. Results, not effort, are important. And anyone who exhibits a pattern of unhelpful results is not going to be useful to have around, making an effort to help that leads to nothing good. So yeah, audits and manual bans are driving off bad reviewers? You better believe that's by design. Mission accomplished! (Obviously, someone who can learn from their bans or even just audit failures and do a more reliable job is an even better success story, and that does happen too.) Commented Aug 8, 2017 at 7:15
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    According to Andy's answer, the OP isn't telling us everything. Commented Aug 8, 2017 at 11:39
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    So OP did you want an explanation or just someone to agree with you? (referring to chosen answer)
    – EpicKip
    Commented Aug 9, 2017 at 12:51

3 Answers 3

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I don't see how it is even relevant how many times this particular user has been banned. The issue here is that they claim to have been banned from voting incorrectly, which if true, is just completely, shockingly wrong. Upon looking at the failed audit, we can't see what user action that was taken. (Why can't we see this? Fix it!)

First of all, we are by no means obliged to up-vote/down-vote new users when we are doing first post reviews. There is no relation between such a review and votes what-so-ever. If this is a factor when generating review audits, the audit needs to be fixed ASAP and the person who created it needs a firm kick (in their posterior or out of the building, depending on how badly this was implemented).

Naturally, no automated review audit can judge the quality of the post, which is the only reason for voting one way or another. If they could, then we wouldn't need user voting to begin with.

Upon considering this more carefully, I do in fact not see how the first time post queue could even have a review audit that includes a supposedly "fine" post. Because there is just no way for the audit to tell if a post is fine or not. Up-votes is no indication - the post could despite up-votes still be something like a tool recommendation or a link-only answer.

It turns even more baroque if the audit starts to require you to vote in a particular manner upon reading the post. Suppose the reviewer is a domain expert and the supposed "fine" post is actually incorrect? Or just spotting something bad with the post that an audit-generating algorithm wouldn't be capable of.

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    Voting down on a well received answer will fail an audit which I think is perfectly sensible (I mean, what else is it supposed to do). And the ban is just a number of failed audits (not the 1) and you know the reason for it to be extended is because there were 24 bans and/or other reviews (non audit) may have been not so great either.
    – EpicKip
    Commented Aug 8, 2017 at 11:42
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    "First of all, we are by no means obliged to up-vote/down-vote new users when we are doing first post reviews" nor you are obliged to say "no action needed" spam, nor edit spam, nor upvote spam, yet people does.
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 8, 2017 at 11:44
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    @EpicKip Earlier today I down-voted an answer with 30 up-votes because it was wrong and mis-quoted a language standard. It was a down vote I could confidently cast because I have extensive domain knowledge in the subject. So if such a post would pop up during review, and I spot the quality problem with it, it should then count towards my review ban? That's nonsense.
    – Lundin
    Commented Aug 8, 2017 at 11:46
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    @Braiam The audit wasn't related to spam so I don't see how your comment is relevant.
    – Lundin
    Commented Aug 8, 2017 at 11:47
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    @Lundin You are suggesting that because you know 1 example all audits are bad (that's what it sounds like at least). You need multiple failed audits for your first review ban so you wont get it from 1 bad audit. And in this case 24 review bans is too much, even if half of them were from bad audits
    – EpicKip
    Commented Aug 8, 2017 at 11:48
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    @EpicKip Just read my answer again...
    – Lundin
    Commented Aug 8, 2017 at 11:48
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    @Lundin Stop with the noise, you read mine again. 1 bad audit won't get you a review ban period.
    – EpicKip
    Commented Aug 8, 2017 at 11:49
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    @EpicKip I am perfectly aware that you need to fail several audits to be review banned. That's perfectly irrelevant, thank you very much. The issue here is that someone gets punished (by the audit counting towards a ban) for voting in a way that didn't please Big Brother.
    – Lundin
    Commented Aug 8, 2017 at 11:50
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    @Lundin Yes but that's not the case nor has that happened before
    – EpicKip
    Commented Aug 8, 2017 at 11:59
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    @EpicKip This has happened multiple times and moderators have been known to manually lift bans in such cases.
    – Magisch
    Commented Aug 8, 2017 at 12:22
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    I don't disagree that pass/fail audits based on voting is flawed because we are telling someone how to vote. But voting is only permitted in a small handful of queues (First Posts and Late Answers) simply because the function of those queues is to help judge the fitness of a specific question for SO, and one of the ways we do that is with Voting. So it becomes important to try to police voting in those queues to ensure people are not voting improperly by up/down voting or everything in sight. How can you do that without using audits based on perceived quality. Is there a better way? Commented Aug 8, 2017 at 12:22
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    The op wasn't banned just for casting that vote and failing the audit. This is what the OP claimed however the answer by Andy gives the full context for why the ban was given. It was persistent bad judgement in reviewing - not decided by an automated audit system but as manually judged by humans who are highly experienced on the site. Only the 7 day ban was given for the failed audit but the OP was mistaken about the reason for the bigger ban
    – rdans
    Commented Aug 8, 2017 at 13:33
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    The reason that voting audits exist is that without them people could just hammer on the vote buttons without reading anything. We've seen this happen. When audits exist only for certain review actions, people gaming badges simply switch to the options that don't have audits and hit those buttons as quick as they can. Unfortunately, these abusive reviewers have made things a little more difficult for the rest of us. The ability to contest borderline audits would remove most of the problems with these, but they are unfortunately necessary.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Aug 8, 2017 at 15:44
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    Now I agree that this particular audit failure isn't the worst, but history does matter when moderators look over reviewer behavior. Andy is actually understating things a bit, because there were 34 prior review bans here, not 24. When a reviewer hits the 20-ban threshold, they are working their way up our list of people to watch a little more closely. When someone passes 30 review bans, they're near the top of that list. It's safe to assume that very strong warnings have been issued at that point, and if troubling reviews continue we have to balance the good being done in review vs. the bad.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Aug 8, 2017 at 15:49
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    @BradLarson Is there a way one can find out how many they've had? I don't remember at this point and I'm getting kinda concerned that y'all have a list :p
    – Magisch
    Commented Aug 8, 2017 at 21:19
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You failed this audit. You've been automatically banned due to failed audits more than two dozen times. You've had at least one manually imposed review ban for an extended length due to bad reviews of non-audit posts.

These don't seem to have caused you to slow down and review more carefully.

Regarding the harshness, I think with the number of failed audits, previous manually imposed review bans and your own words here, a longer ban from the queues is needed.

When reviewing, if you don't have time to do them carefully, you aren't helping yourself or the site. The goal of reviews isn't to have the largest number of reviews. It is to improve the quality of content on the site.

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    Just to add some context, while there may have been >24 automatic review bans, OP has ~78,000 reviews - coming out to one every ~3000 reviews. Considering the state of the automated audits, I don't see this as an extremely bad ratio
    – Rob Mod
    Commented Aug 6, 2017 at 2:03
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    @Rob Thanks for checking. The ~78000 reviews under my review history tab are only those that didn't get deleted; if you count those from within the review queues, they should amount to almost 150K.
    – Unheilig
    Commented Aug 6, 2017 at 2:06
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    I disagree with the assumption that failing a review audit implies that you're doing them too fast or not carefully. 90% of the time, when I fail an audit, I had spent extra time analyzing that question, and ended up making the wrong decision. (more I could say but that will do) Commented Aug 6, 2017 at 2:15
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    @Rob That's a horrible comparison given that you only encounter a review audit every so many reviews (they're not a 1:1 ratio) and that a good deal of audits are blatantly obvious. Some of the worst review offenders are also the ones completing the most reviews. That many review bans (note that does not represent how many audits they've failed but how many times their multiple failures has resulted in a ban from review) is always bad, no matter how many reviews. You don't go around saying "well you have 100k comments, so those handful of rude ones are no big deal." They are a big deal.
    – animuson StaffMod
    Commented Aug 6, 2017 at 2:58
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    @Unheilig I wasn't commenting on your review status in particular, just in general that a low number compared to an overall total does not necessarily mean anything whatsoever.
    – animuson StaffMod
    Commented Aug 6, 2017 at 3:19
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    @animuson Not sure it's fair to call it a terrible comparison. Someone with a million reviews and 2 bans is clearly doing better than someone with 100 reviews and 2 bans. It also assumes the audit system is perfect, which it's clearly not. Humans make mistakes, it's inevitable that more actions result in more mistakes. The best flaggers on the site probably have more declines flags that I, but it doesn't mean they're bad flaggers.
    – Rob Mod
    Commented Aug 6, 2017 at 3:43
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    @Rob: review bans can't be compared to declined flags. Compare flag bans to review bans. Both failing a single audit and having a single flag declined from time to time is fine. But to get a review ban or a flag ban requires a pattern of mistakes. When you get this many review bans, then there is a systemic failure to review properly.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented Aug 6, 2017 at 8:54
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    @Sahuagin: failing one audit is fine. Failing enough audits to get an automatic review ban is less good, but okay if you then learn and improve your reviewing. Getting into twenty four review bans is not fine.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented Aug 6, 2017 at 9:21
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    @Unheilig: I know what happened. A moderator reviewed your automatic review ban and decided that enough is enough and replaced that with a manual review ban.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented Aug 6, 2017 at 9:21
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    24 bans does seem excessive, that's a little less than one every 2 months of your SO tenure!
    – DavidG
    Commented Aug 6, 2017 at 10:02
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    So I assume a moderator went through some backlog and found some real reviewing dirt to merit such an extension? Or was it just a case of "after 24 times they really ought to know by now"? Sorry If I'm obtuse, I'm trying to understand mod's decisions, since I assume they're meritorious
    – Magisch
    Commented Aug 7, 2017 at 14:01
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    @Lundin That action was just the straw that broke the camels back. Even without this there was still a ton of straw there. You don't get review banned for a couple mistakes or a few bad audits. You get review banned for a history of bad reviewing. I for one think this is totally appropriate as 24 automatic suspensions indicates many audits have been failed and the user needs more of a time out to get that point across. Commented Aug 8, 2017 at 11:52
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    @Lundin I don't get your point. User is systematically not being sensible while reviewing. Who cares why the latest ban was about? The user has demonstratively being unable to pass very easy review audits. You don't get banned 24 times because you are good at reviewing nor mistakes.
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 8, 2017 at 11:58
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    So clearly there is a fundamental problem with the system going on here. Something is very wrong that a user was able to be banned both automatically and manually so many times, and yet still be allowed to continue reviewing, and continue posting bad reviews. That the person was able to make almost 80k reviews, given a demonstrated history of consistently doing a bad job of it (meaning that a high percentage of them are bad reviews) means that they've done a lot of damage to the site and the system has just let them keep getting back at it. That's a major failing.
    – Servy
    Commented Aug 8, 2017 at 15:25
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    @Braiam The point is, misclicks happen. I have failed review audits because of misclicks, though I've luckily never been banned. But I would be pissed if I misclicked on a review item and was banned before I submitted the review. The system should not ban you before you've had the opportunity to hit the "I'm Done" button. That's like saying "it doesn't matter if you failed X audits or X - 1, you should be banned", because it does matter. You are banned at X failed audits, not X - 1.
    – TylerH
    Commented Aug 8, 2017 at 19:29
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I want to bring attention to @Chris's comment.

Regarding the misclick, I have been banned once or twice for misclicking too. I don't know why the system kicks in when you vote instead of when you click the I'm done button.

Being banned for a misclick is rough in my opinion. If, however, any calcuations on how you went on the audit were deferred until the reviewer clicked "I'm Done" then we know whatever they did was deliberate.

In the real world, downvotes are retractable (for a small while anyway) so I don't see why review queues should work differently.

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    IIRC it used to work that way. And then people got upset, because they'd spend a long time writing a helpful comment... only to find that it was an audit, and their comment would never be posted. Both the old system and the new system have their drawbacks. Commented Aug 8, 2017 at 6:41
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    @pnuts The old system: passing/failing after clicking "I'm done". The new system: passing/failing on the first action. Commented Aug 8, 2017 at 6:53
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    @S.L.Barth Hmm that is an interesting case. Goes to show you can't please everyone... I guess my counter proposal to that could be that it goes to the first action unless that action would result in a ban, but now we're getting overly complicated... I can see why we wouldn't want to lose a good reviewer over audits. Probably better to lose one that has an unfortunate track record...
    – Shadow
    Commented Aug 8, 2017 at 6:56
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    @S.L.Barth that's interesting and a valid point. However, personally I would rather lose 10 seconds of my time than have something that I'd consider a bad UX design. One has to consider also that most comments that you'd post on someones first post would probably be something like "Please read the faq and How to Ask" and not a 500-character comment.
    – Chris
    Commented Aug 8, 2017 at 7:38
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    Interesting point to bring up but it doesn't really answer OPs question. If you wanted to ask about this, you should have posted another question.
    – DavidG
    Commented Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50
  • "thus, my argument herein focuses on the harshness of the duration" - @DavidG, I think this answer focuses on the harshness on the duration, or rather the ban in general, and is an attempt to gauge interest in solving it in this particular way. Would you mind elaborating on why you think otherwise? (just for my own education)
    – Shadow
    Commented Aug 8, 2017 at 23:12
  • You don't mention anything to do with duration at all?
    – DavidG
    Commented Aug 8, 2017 at 23:15
  • "or rather, the ban in general" - I discussed duration from a "I don't think you deserved a ban at all" perspective, ie a duration of '0'.
    – Shadow
    Commented Aug 8, 2017 at 23:33
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    They've since changed it so that you find out it's an audit the moment you click on comment. Maybe first action can go and still keep that behavior so nobody writes a long comment on an audit.
    – Joshua
    Commented Mar 21 at 18:47

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