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I have been reviewing posts for some time now and feel a growing frustration by the perceived lack of quality questions and answers. It appears as though especially new users are not prepared to read any of the introductory information presented to them to make an effort not to embarrass themselves. I get a general vibe of treating SO as a kind of discussion forum or social media site. I often feel that the number of flags at my disposal is not even close to being enough to mark those bad posts. In fact, in the past I often ran out of them early.

Back when I took my first steps into internet culture and coding, I took the time to read up as much as I could to show I cared about the time and sensibilities of people offering their time to help me with my questions. This spirit appears to have largely evaporated.

My question being: is the mass of low quality posts just a perceptual bias on my part or is this truly the state of things on SO? Is this tied to my reputation count or do users with significantly more reputation experience the same thing?

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    Your perception that it's just new users seems to be the biggest flaw that I'm seeing here. I also don't see too many people trying to socialize on SO, just people trying to ask a programming question (or answer) and just not doing a good job of it.
    – Servy
    Commented Dec 13, 2017 at 22:35
  • My understanding of SO is such that it is supposed to be a place to ask programming questions, it's the how that I get hung up about. I was referring to new users especially since in general it appears the more seasoned a user is the better is the quality of their posts. Commented Dec 13, 2017 at 22:40
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    My experience has been that the more a question author has used SO the less likely the question is to be a good question or to be worthwhile.
    – Servy
    Commented Dec 13, 2017 at 22:42
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    An interesting observation that is certainly at odds with mine. Good to know because I was asking about a perceptual bias on my side. I'd like to hear from more people and how they experience this. Commented Dec 13, 2017 at 22:44
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    My perception is that a lot of the people asking questions are low rep or new users. I see a lot more high rep people on the answering side of things. Among the low-rep questions, I see a lot of "Here's a code dump, why isn't it working?" sorts of questions, but that just be the types of filters I'm looking at (I occasionally go looking for "please" and "thanks" phrases to edit out)
    – Lauraducky
    Commented Dec 14, 2017 at 4:29
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    @Derby indeed. I regularly (once a day-ish or more) see users with more rep than the OP post blatantly off-topic questions (e.g. why is my hard drive warbling, where can I download Java, what's the best programming language to learn if I want to make a lot of money, etc.). Commented Dec 14, 2017 at 17:51
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    @herrbischoff The barrier to entry for using the internet is orders of magnitude lower today so yes, we see a much larger percentage of people who just treat it like a stomping ground rather than a holy place.
    – TylerH
    Commented Dec 15, 2017 at 14:56
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    Then there is the frustration of taking the time to research and compose a really interesting question, only to have it solidly ignored or dismissed by the "high reppers" because they assume anyone less than 5K must be dumb by default.
    – Typel
    Commented Dec 15, 2017 at 18:21

4 Answers 4

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The problem with basing your opinion of stack overflow on the review queues, is that you are only ever seeing the questions and answers that have been flagged because they are low quality.

It's probably the same kind of deal for a dentist for example. The people that visit him do so because their mouth is in disarray, by pains, signs of gum disease, etc. If they made a judgment as to how good humanity's teeth are based off just the people who need fillings/dentures/etc, they probably wouldn't rank them too highly.

I'm aware this isn't the perfect analogy due to regular check-ups - but please don't bother commenting about it. If you come up with a better analogy, then feel free to share it.

There are still new good questions and answers coming up on the site. But you will never see them in review queues, as they do not need reviewing.

That said - I wouldn't completely dismiss your opinion. I would be very interested to know the percentage of new users that actually see the help pages. I suspect it's extremely low. It disturbs me how many post their question without proof-reading or formatting (especially code). But I don't think this is a new problem (hard to know as offenders get deleted).

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    I like your comparison to dentists. I'm going to steal that for later.
    – SandPiper
    Commented Dec 14, 2017 at 12:08
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    That's a good point, thank you. I guess the growing internationalization of SO does it's part with some kind of garbled questions. It's alright when you're not fluent in another language (I'm not a native English speaker myself) but you at least have to make an effort. I have seen many posts, also outside of the review queue that would take careful syntactical analysis to even guess their meaning. However, I believe the key word here is: laziness. There's only one defense for it: if you automate something so you don't have to do it repeatedly. In that case your a good programmer. Commented Dec 14, 2017 at 15:35
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    This general principle is known as selection bias. Commented Dec 14, 2017 at 17:53
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    @herrbischoff none of my comments are directed at non-native speakers, but more those who don't bother to present their question at a reasonable standard. People on this site are more than happy to fix grammatical/spelling issues. But language barriers are no real excuse for omitting excessive vital information or not formatting one's code...
    – Shadow
    Commented Dec 15, 2017 at 0:16
  • @SandPiper you're more than welcome - but honestly I wasn't that happy with it as regular checkups break the analogy... But it was the best I could come up with on the spot.
    – Shadow
    Commented Dec 15, 2017 at 0:21
  • I don't like the comparison to dentists because everyone should visit the dentist periodically to maintain good dental health. It's not just people who go get cavities filled or root canals done. People also go to get veneers, to get teeth cleaned, to get tips and pointers on how better to care for their teeth, to get preventative xrays, etc. The dentist analogy is not a good one. I have never had a cavity or gingivitis, likely in large part because I visit the dentist every 6 months.
    – TylerH
    Commented Dec 15, 2017 at 14:59
  • @TylerH: TIL people who visit the dentist regularly actually exist. I was under the impression that people with pearly whites just had enchanted teeth. (Or this might just be the unicorn in me speaking...)
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Dec 16, 2017 at 3:56
  • @TylerH also I literally wrote that in the comment above yours :P Feel free to come up with a better analogy...
    – Shadow
    Commented Dec 16, 2017 at 5:15
  • In my country (The Netherlands) it is quite common to go to the dentist once or twice a year for a check-up, so that comparison doesn't really ring true for me ;). Commented Dec 16, 2017 at 11:54
4

Shadow answer is logical if you're talking about the low-quality / not-an-answer queue. Most of the time I click on "Delete" button because the answer is terrible.

But if you're talking about "First posts by first users" or "Late answers" queues, there you find a lot of bad quality posts there too, and that's disappointing but the queues are kind of "expecting" it:

  • First posts: "This is the first question asked by a new user. Help them learn to use the site by reviewing their post.". Most new users need to learn how to ask questions & answers. It's not easy even if you take the tour.
  • Late answers: something like "watch for gems". Well, it's rare to find some on some question with 34 answers already. Well, it happens...

Basically all those queues have a high match for low quality posts, that's why we need revievers to vote on/flag/comment on the posts in a focused way so users learn how to use the site more quickly and trolls are deleted before everyone reads their trash.

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I think it's a problem that after many years of stackoverflow, many - if not all - of the most generically useful questions have already been asked and answered. So a new question can only be:

  • Super specific problems by people who are really delving deep into the underbelly of some engine or framework, and then run into an unexpected glitch or bug that they need a workaround for.
  • Super simple problems that show that the user's understanding is so low that he cannot read or understand the answers that are already here.

I think stackoverflow should really question itself in how it intends to go forward. These issues will only get worse.

Perhaps the homepage should get some categories with the most helpful answers and tutorials, to help beginners on their way?

Perhaps more can be done for curators and teachers who have contributed helpful answers? Make those people more accessible, perhaps to ask questions directly?

Just thinking out loud here.

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    It's important to realize that there are always new technologies (languages, frameworks, even platforms) being created. The field is not stagnant. So while it may be true that a lot of low-hanging fruit has been picked, there's also new fruit growing.
    – jscs
    Commented Dec 16, 2017 at 14:24
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    True, although to me it seems that the incredible amount of knowledge that is already here could be made more discoverable.
    – Kokodoko
    Commented Dec 16, 2017 at 16:06
  • "Make [teachers] more accessible, perhaps to ask questions directly?" Please clarify. Have them ask questions, or redirect questions to them? Based on what criteria? "Here is my assignment, please write code. The thanks, they are advancing" is an extremely common type of post.
    – Jongware
    Commented Dec 16, 2017 at 19:03
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    I was just thinking out loud :) By the way, students are already posting their assignments here, and often get shooed away by grumpy veterans. Having more and more posts like this doesn't improve the site either.
    – Kokodoko
    Commented Dec 16, 2017 at 20:48
-25

People are posing a question, because they don't know the answer.
With more and more people trying to make their way into coding, even complete newcomers stumble upon stack overflow.

Since the reputation system does quite good at giving a hint to new learners that this is an elite community, nevertheless are there many people in increasing numbers that have questions.
And they dare to pose them.
Even here.

Maybe stack overflow should be even more rude in showing visitors of the site that they may READ but have to go through quite a lot of tutorials, exams and crosschecks to get a question through. One of the very effective motivation strategies is downvoting questions. At best several times.

I would suggest a sign that pops up after several seconds:
"You may profit from our wisdom, but study long and hard before you question something".

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    IMO, the more we distance ourselves from this "superior community" mindset, the better. We don't want to be superior, and we DO want to new users to step up. The more we endorse segregation, the worse it will be the community.
    – Bonifacio
    Commented Dec 15, 2017 at 19:03
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    "And they dare to pose them. Even here." Darn those posers. How dare they? Commented Dec 15, 2017 at 19:14
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    If by "study long and hard" you mean look at the first hit on a Google search of the question title, or (gasp) read the documentation, then yes.
    – Ajean
    Commented Dec 15, 2017 at 20:23
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    The problem isn't that they're beginners, but that they don't put enough effort into asking their questions. It's OK to ask beginner questions as long as the questions meet the quality standards. Commented Dec 15, 2017 at 22:06
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    For example, when I was new to C++, I asked this question which got 4 upvotes. Now that I know more about C++, the answer to that question seems obvious. The reason that question was upvoted is because it's clear and useful and is likely to help other beginners. That's what makes it different from a question that just dumps an assignment or 100 lines of non-working code and expects the answerers to do all the work. Commented Dec 15, 2017 at 22:06
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    Knowing the answer or not is mutually exclusive to writing a good question.
    – Shadow
    Commented Dec 15, 2017 at 22:16
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    This is an incredibly arrogant stance that I don't support at all. I can however understand the frustration that it's based on. I remember back in the Fidonet times when certain communities I tried to join and asked questions the wrong way were quick to lash out but always explained why. That was harsh but fair. Instead of whining, you needed to step up your game. I'm all for inclusion but inclusion does not mean handing out trophies for participation. This breeds expectations of entitlement, which is way worse than a bruised ego. Also, the bigger the ego, the less likely you'll learn. Commented Dec 15, 2017 at 22:43
  • Thanks to @RuudHelderman for the humor. Exactly my opinion. You got it.
    – Magnus
    Commented Dec 17, 2017 at 20:04
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    @DonaldDuck It would be ok, if it worked like that, but it doesn't. I'm not a beginner, I am a lecturer myself for more than 10 years. I tried several times to pose questions around here AFTER searching for some time and everytime I get raided by question downvoters in the first hour. Few elitists make the community...
    – Magnus
    Commented Dec 17, 2017 at 20:09
  • You didn't study long and hard enough, @Ajean. I know exactly ;-)
    – Magnus
    Commented Dec 17, 2017 at 20:10
  • @herrbischoff It would suffice if they just let the questions live, so they can be answered before voting them down into oblivion.
    – Magnus
    Commented Dec 17, 2017 at 20:14

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