22

Under Stack Overflow's standards, what should I suggest the OP to do if they're seeking detailed clarification on an answer, or have a specific case where my answer's not working for them? This is closely related to this meta post. Should they:

  1. Continue to seek clarification in the comments?
  2. Edit their question to specifically reflect my answer?
  3. Post their clarifications in a partial answer to their own question?
  4. Post a new question tailored to the problem with the answer?
  5. Else ... ?

I recently answered a question that was vague but, I thought, fair, and I provided the best answer I could. The OP commented on my answer, asking for clarification on how it could be applied to their data, which didn't match the case they described in their question. They didn't provide example data, only a description of the situation, so I commented back to explain how their described data could be passed to my code.

It soon turned into a case of "it's not working", but still without example data provided. The comment section on my answer turned into a running dialogue... and I realized, I don't know the appropriate response in this situation. Another user soon provided a much better answer, which I upvoted - I think it solved the problem effectively.

In any case, it seems like this could be avoided in the future by knowing how OP should seek detailed clarification on an answer that's partially working.

2
  • 25
    Answering those kind of questions will often land you in the situation you're in now. The OP has not included anything that hints at them having even tried to solve this themselves, they've just dumped a specification into a question and are hoping for some code they can copypaste so they can get on with their day. The chance that they'll need to be hand-held through the entire process is fairly large, as you've just seen. I would personally have voted to close that question rather than trying to answer it.
    – ivarni
    Commented Oct 13, 2017 at 5:19
  • 6
    Having had the experience, I agree. I initially tackled it because it seemed like a problem that I had the knowledge to solve, but with hindsight, this was "give me a fish". I'm fairly new to answering, so I'll learn from this. I also learned something about R from the other (better) answer on the question - side benefit. Commented Oct 13, 2017 at 14:23

2 Answers 2

43

Flag/vote to close the question as "unclear what you are asking or "questions seeking debugging help...", downvote because the question is "not useful", and then move on.

Do not waste your time trying to help someone who can't be bothered to provide the necessary information. There are other questions more deserving of your attention!

This site is not about giving askers of questions the help they need. Yes, really. This is not a help desk or tutorial site. Its purpose is to create a repository of good answers to good questions. If the asker needs help but can not express the request for help as a good question, neither their question nor the answers to the question belong here.

4
  • 25
    As I gain experience answering questions, I should get better at identifying those kinds of questions. I hadn't thought about wasting time on answers in that way, it's interesting... I've seen a number of posts on the meta about "negativity" in SO, but the typical response seems to be that the perceived negativity is really about standards. When put into context, that bad questions take time away from deserving questions, it seems less like flagging or downvoting is "mean", and more like it's a responsibility to the community. Commented Oct 13, 2017 at 14:15
  • 8
    @KeeganSmith that is perfectly right. There's also a secondary effect, where the tolerance towards low-quality questions creates a precedent, leading to an even greater amount of low-quality questions in the future. This is the kind of negative feedback that erodes the quality of the site, and the only cure against it is ruthless moderation and peer-pressure. Commented Oct 14, 2017 at 11:51
  • @KeeganSmith Exactly. It's not about rules or being grumpy or feeling superior. It's about getting people the help they need. If someone can't give the necessary details for another person to help them, then everyone's time is wasted, including the asker. And on the flip side of that, it's about not wasting the time of experienced answerers, who won't stick around if all they do is waste their time trying to help or find people that they can help.
    – jpmc26
    Commented Oct 16, 2017 at 4:33
  • 1
    @jpmc26 No, it is not about giving the asker of a question the help they need. Yes, really. This is not a help desk or tutorial site. Its purpose is to create a repository of good answers to good questions. If the asker needs help but can not express the request for help as a good question, neither their question nor the answers to the question belong here.
    – Raedwald
    Commented Oct 16, 2017 at 8:46
9

I don't agree that the user had met the flag/downvote/leave threshold just yet. You could see it from where you were, though.

I would say that when this happens:

They didn't provide example data, only a description of the situation

...that's a major red flag, and it's time to instantly change your approach and turn a little bit monomaniacal (but gently -- or less so if the user is evasive and difficult) until you get a MVCE or something close to it. Everything but that MVCE is just squid ink.

A description means nothing. You hear the description and you visualize the code you would have written or the XML you would have designed -- but when you finally see the reality, it's like the colony in Aliens. It's a nightmarish incomprehensible hellscape of alien goo and weirdness. It's nothing like you imagined.

Heck, it's worse than that: It's as bad as the stuff I did when I was as green as they are. Most of them are just inexperienced, not stupid. They're doing their best.

When you see the code or the data, usually the inexplicable mystery becomes obvious, because they described what they intended to do, at a fairly high level of abstraction. What they actually did is different, very often obviously so, often stupendously so. You can spend an infinite amount of time trying to guess from vague hints, and it's all just time wasted. Sometimes you hit the psychic debugging jackpot -- somebody gives a clear enough description of a problem you recognize, and it turns out there wasn't something else wrong instead. That's really fun, on the rare occasions when it happens.

I parsed the integer but it dosnt work.

What's in the string?

"23". I checked.

Perplexing. Then you finally see the code.

private int n = 0;

public void parseIntager()
{
    try {
        object str = textBox12.Text;
        object n = "";
        Int32.Parse(n);
    } catch {}
}

You could spend an hour with that guy trying to read the tea leaves of his weird delphic mutterings and 1600x900 highly compressed JPEG screenshots with a tiny little textbox in the middle. This is a waste of your time (and his -- arguably that's on him, but you're supposed to be the one who knows better).

Also, if a user is making no sense it's likely because he's panicking and not thinking. If you can get him to calm down and think methodically, that may be all it takes. If someone's in a dead end ramming his head into the wall, nobody wins if you just join him at it.

The moral of the story is just that you should never accept a description. This even goes for experienced programmers. If my code doesn't work, my description of what I think my code is doing will obviously be wrong. The information I'm focused on is almost certainly insufficient. With luck, after a decade or two we start to figure that out about ourselves and we don't waste people's time that way. Not a lot of users asking questions on Stack Overflow can be expected to have reached that stage yet.

Or sometimes it's somebody experienced who's just tired or rushed, who "just knows" it's not his code, even though he should know better, and when he coughs up the code you'll see perfectly good code with one dumb thing that just needed a second set of eyes.

But then sometimes they'll get dig in, stay evasive, and never give you anything concrete. Sometimes it's an obvious XY problem, they want to do something impossible, and they refuse to tell you what the real goal is.

Then you downvote, flag, and wish them luck.

10
  • 1
    I think your answer really hits on what motivated my question in the first place - when I first decided to answer, the lack of data was, as you said, a red flag... but it didn't seem too bad, as it sounded like a fairly simple problem. I opted to answer, rather than downvote... but as OP's problem/description evolved, I wasn't sure how to proceed. With hindsight, I opened the jar despite that early red flag. Commented Oct 13, 2017 at 20:20
  • 1
    Having said that, you say above "never accept a description". I agree that's the moral here, BUT: as a relatively new member with limited reputation, I couldn't comment to say "example please". Is the takeway for new members that they should just avoid answering vague questions altogether? Since reputation is gained by answering, and many questions aren't asked perfectly the first time around, this seems like a bit of a catch-22, restricting new users to asking questions. Is that the point of this system? Commented Oct 13, 2017 at 20:26
  • @KeeganSmith Hmmm. I don't think that's the point; wouldn't make a lot of sense if it were. I don't know the history behind the threshold for commenting. Do you filter the new questions by tags? I found it difficult to find answerable questions for a few years until I started filtering by tags for a few things that I know reasonably well. Then it was much easier to find stuff to answer. Commented Oct 13, 2017 at 20:34
  • I do filter by tags, but since I have limited programming experience, the pickings are fairly slim for me anyway, haha. After some reading, it seems that the commenting threshold evolved out of a desire to reduce spam/trolling... so maybe the challenge for new users is just an unintended side-effect. I'm not sure that it's a bad thing, though - it encouraged me to learn more about the site's standards and the grounds for flagging/downvoting. Commented Oct 13, 2017 at 21:50
  • 1
    If I had to guess I'd agree that it's a spam/troll thing. I've learned a lot by answering questions too. You start to recognize some of them after a while. Commented Oct 13, 2017 at 22:03
  • 2
    "nightmarish incomprehensible hellscape of alien goo and weirdness" is the greatest thing I've read today. Thanks for that. Commented Oct 15, 2017 at 0:19
  • 2
    @KeeganSmith If a comment (or downvote, or close vote, or close, or delete) is called for but you don't have the rep, just move on. It is too bad about not being able to prod for clarifications.
    – philipxy
    Commented Oct 15, 2017 at 2:24
  • 1
    @Don'tPanic Alas... all too human.
    – philipxy
    Commented Oct 15, 2017 at 2:24
  • 3
    Nice answer. I particularly like "If my code doesn't work, my description of what I think my code is doing is obviously wrong".
    – PM 2Ring
    Commented Oct 16, 2017 at 1:18
  • 1
    @KeeganSmith Yes, it's frustrating when you don't have the rep to comment. OTOH, it does take a little bit of experience on SO to gain the skill to write effective comments, and IMHO 50 points is a reasonable threshold. And now you've passed that threshold, so you're free to comment to your heart's content. ;)
    – PM 2Ring
    Commented Oct 16, 2017 at 1:27

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .