517

I came across a question where the user formatted the title with text in bold and italics. I thought that question titles were stripped of all formatting and was surprised to see this. I'm assuming that this is just a Unicode trick, but should it be allowed? It seems like something that has the potential for abuse.

For those that don't see the fully formatted title, here's an image of this question's title:

"should formatting in titles be permitted?" written in various non-ascii unicode characters Note that different browsers on different devices and operating systems may yield different results.

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  • 186
    Interestingly, it does not break search
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 3:52
  • 160
    This is not formatting. These are non-ASCII Unicode characters. Are you asking if titles should be restricted to some particular set of characters?
    – user6655984
    Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 3:58
  • 33
    @zaq yes, however it appears to the average user as if the title text has been formatted.
    – j08691
    Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 3:58
  • 65
    Not all formatting is allowed Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 4:13
  • 10
    @Carpetsmoker no one said all formatting is allowed
    – j08691
    Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 4:13
  • 94
    ˙ʇɔnpoɹd ɹo ʇuǝʌǝ sıɥʇ ǝsɹopuǝ ʎʃıʇɹɐǝɥ I Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 4:22
  • 6
    But seriously now. I can read most of it, but not the last word. Can anybody recommend a font to download? So a font that would contain the "Enclosed Alphanumeric Supplement" block, right?
    – Mr Lister
    Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 9:26
  • 57
    Interestingly, Firefox cuts off this title way too early in the tab bar. Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 9:34
  • 22
    Safari and Chrome on OS X gets this 100% right everywhere on the page and in the UI. An excellent testament to superior Unicode support on that platform.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 10:27
  • 11
    Earlier, I only saw the "Permitted?" part on my iPad. Quelle surprise, on my desktop I see "Should Formatting in Titles be P?". So it takes some mental assembling to get what it is supposed to say.
    – Jongware
    Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 12:28
  • 10
    @CodyGray - Thanks. The ipad only shows the "Permitted" part - with the P rendered in blue and the rest black! Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 15:24
  • 55
    Your "P" is a different color, @lwchris. You should have a doctor look at that.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 15:56
  • 11
    My attention surely was caught up by this title. Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 18:40
  • 236
    Š̻̰̜̥͇̼̦́̌̂̎͋̓ũ̺̲͓͔͍̯̃̋̈̃̇̓̿̕͝r̶̭̹̘͕̣̀̉̇͗̅̀è̵̤̖̗̮̱͙̼̤̰̟͂̌̎̓̒,̰̝͉̮͙̩̘͎͕̇̏̏̌͊̚ w̵̧̘̣̼͙̬̔́̏̅͊̂ḫ̡̫̘̯̙͚̑̅́́̏̒̋͘͡y̫̠͔̯̮͔̭͉̭̓̐̏̂̀̈́͑̅̚ͅ n̶̖̩͕̳̟̗̄͆̎̾̀̐̒̈́̀ő̴̧̱͕̫̥̥͉͔̰̯̃̏̿̾̅͠t̴̡̛̛̫̲̮̰̦̱̋̒͑͋̉͊̽͒͟?͙̥͕͖̟͔͊̈́͒͂͐͊̑̃͘͝
    – Alex
    Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 20:17
  • 8
    Fun.
    – Andrew Li
    Commented Jan 23, 2017 at 4:50

12 Answers 12

468

What if I have the question:

Why does my program stop working if I use characters such as "𝓢"?

Disallowing this sort of stuff would also disallow legitimate uses. The legitimate uses may be rare (though they do exist), but so are the illegitimate uses. I've never seen it once in 4+ years of Stack Overflow.

It's fixed quickly enough with an edit in the rare occasion that it occurs.

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  • 197
    And if a specific user persists in using such titles, feel free to flag for mod attention and we'll have a word.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 8:28
  • 4
    I assume one wouldn't disallow all letter-likes in titles, but a rule like "at least 50% ASCII (except on ja.so, ru.so and math.se)" should work just fine. Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 9:31
  • 6
    -1 It's enough to use the name or class of the character, like "asterisk", and also improves the searchability of the question.
    – DBedrenko
    Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 9:34
  • 16
    You could (and probably should) be using U+1d4e2 (codepoint), Mathematical Bold Script Capital S (name of the character) or "Mathematical alphanumeric symbols" (name of the unicode block) instead of 𝓢. That improves searchability (especially the last two options) of the question a lot. Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 9:46
  • 63
    Using the name of the character is great, so long as we can all agree on what it's called. What do you call #? Number sign? Hash sign? Pound sign? Octothorpe (and any of its many spelling variations)? Mathematical Bold Script Capital S would make for an awfully long title. But all of these comments really miss the point, and that is that blacklists suck.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 10:11
  • 22
    @Cody Gray: Clearly, it's called a "hashtag", since that's what everybody insists on calling it these days!
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 11:29
  • 5
    @JonasWielicki: Nothing against giving the name, but why "instead of"? What's wrong with "Program stops working when given mathematical alphanumeric symbols such as '𝓢'"?
    – ruakh
    Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 17:51
  • @CodyGray Whatever name you choose it is infinitely more searchable than the symbol, which is too short for search engines to allow as a keyword. As for the "S", disallowing the symbol would make the questioner run tests to determine if the question pertains to unicode text, only to unicode text that is bolded, etc. This makes the question more accurate and useful to others.
    – DBedrenko
    Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 18:22
  • 10
    @Spaghetti You assume that people asking questions about this sort of stuff know about such things. It's likely that they don't – that's why they're asking a question! Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 18:31
  • @Carpetsmoker That they don't know what is unicode? I think it's reasonable to assume that people can tell the difference between ASCII and non-ASCII, given they code and write their question in ASCII. "Why does my program crash on non-ASCII characters?" is better than "Why [...] on 'S'?" simply because it's more searchable and broad enough to be useful to other people.
    – DBedrenko
    Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 21:00
  • @Spaghetti I don't disagree there are better titles than what I put in the question; that's why you can edit it! However, it's also not a wholly unreasonable title for a user to use, and I think that disallowing it would do more harm than good. Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 21:06
  • @Carpetsmoker well I'm unconvinced, because you didn't make the case for what the harm is in banning unicode; what are the legitimate uses that outweigh the disadavantages I mentioned in my previous comments?
    – DBedrenko
    Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 21:42
  • 5
    1990: "128 characters aren't enough. We need more" 2016: "There are so many Unicode characters it's difficult to identify those that can be used inappropriately"
    – Alex Wiese
    Commented Jan 23, 2017 at 6:06
  • 1
    “given they code and write their question in ASCII” – I neither write code nor questions/answers in ASCII.
    – poke
    Commented Jan 23, 2017 at 10:36
  • 1
    Possibly relevant: stackoverflow.com/questions/41879957/stanford-corenlp-and-emoji
    – VGR
    Commented Jan 26, 2017 at 18:48
133

Is this actually a widespread problem? Seems like nobody's actually abusing it, and any isolated case can be handled with a warning and/or suspension.

Considering that legitimate titles would likely be blocked by any naive approach and beyond that we'd be in a "tweak this block so it doesn't prevent this legit issue but also block other malicious approaches" hell... and given that this is merely annoying to the eye and fixable with a quick edit... I'm inclined to advocate against any preemptive fixes.

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  • 16
    So "should it be allowed", yes (as in "not explicitly hardcoded to be not allowed") but also "please edit it out when seen"?
    – Jongware
    Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 7:33
  • 12
    It’s not merely annoying. It prevents display of the title for those whose font does not support whole Unicode.
    – Palec
    Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 9:56
  • 10
    @Palec That's only a problem for illegitimate uses. If there is a legitimate reason to use such a character, your inability to view it is your problem.
    – chepner
    Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 16:23
  • Or problem of the asker who drives me away from answering, @chepner.
    – Palec
    Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 17:14
  • 1
    Still, my first comment related to the “given that this is merely annoying to the eye and fixable with a quick edit” part, @chepner. This clearly talks about illegitimate uses, which are supposedly easy to fix by editing.
    – Palec
    Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 17:17
  • 3
    Wait for the first dancing hamster emoji title Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 18:06
  • 1
    Waiting for the first honest user to use the "happy poop" emoji... Commented Jan 23, 2017 at 14:39
  • @Palec Fix your god-damned broken system then. Everybody system can be relied on to have one, it's just a lot of software that's broken (and, fun fact, illegal in China because of it).
    – o11c
    Commented Jan 24, 2017 at 21:36
  • 3
    I do see one person abusing it.
    – Jon Ericson Staff
    Commented Jan 24, 2017 at 23:06
75

I don't know why this needs reiterating in 2017, although looking around me at various goings on lately you're surely not alone in falling foul of it. But, to be clear then:

Use your common sense.

Is the formatting semantically important? Is the author asking a question about a Unicode character?

  • Then it's fine.

Is the title all rendered in Unicode trickery for the sake of drawing attention and being obnoxious?

  • Edit it out.

The logical consequence is also that there can be no automated system to "filter out" such happenings, not that those systems ever work terribly well anyway.

I don't see why any discussion is required beyond that. It's the same logic we apply to the post itself.

3
  • 10
    "I don't know why this needs reiterating in 2017, although looking around me at various goings on lately you're surely not alone in falling foul of it." An alternative conclusion would be that common sense is not all that common. But I couldn't agree more with the spirit of this answer. We don't need a "rule" for every little thing.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jan 23, 2017 at 16:49
  • What about a couple of words in UNICODE italics to add emphasis or clarification to a dependent clause, but not ostentatious?
    – clearlight
    Commented Jan 25, 2017 at 1:24
  • 5
    @clearlight: No. Commented Jan 25, 2017 at 9:57
42

Put it this way: you'd probably frown on any of the following:

*** Should formatting in titles be permitted? ***

or

Should-formatting-in-titles-be-permitted?

(I actually caught someone posting a question with a title that's literally the URL slug of an unrelated forum thread, dashes and all, just the other day)

or

-=[ Should formatting in titles be permitted? ]=-

or

ShOuLd FoRmAtTiNg In TiTlEs Be PeRmItTeD?

or

5|-|0|_|1|) |=0|2|\/|477i|\|9 i|\| 7i7135 |33 |>3|2|\/|i773|)?

The 1337 example is especially similar to yours: like it, it makes use of characters that clearly mean something other than, well, parts of letterforms, for something that's not their intended meaning or purpose. Anyone who can read 1337 will understand the 1337 example, and there are 1337 translation sites out there that will translate it for you (I wrote it entirely by hand, though), but to everyone else this title might as well be complete gibberish.

The fact that not everyone can even see the characters in your example alone should be enough of a case against such titles.

7
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    d00d! |_| |` 4 1337 h4x0r!!11!one Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 13:50
  • 21
    Oh, TiTlEs are certainly permitted.
    – Cœur
    Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 15:33
  • 4
    I never realized I could read 1337 text. Now I wish I didn't. It looked so eerie before, now it's just snowflakes trying to be more unique... ;) Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 16:32
  • As an aside, that l33tsp34k version could be a decent password, if anyone could remember it. Not necessarily good, but at least long and complex enough to deter casual crackers, and with a built-in hint. Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 23:48
  • 11
    “I wrote it entirely by hand, though” – You really wanted to point that out, huh? :P
    – poke
    Commented Jan 23, 2017 at 10:38
  • @JustinTime An interesting strategy, but not a very good one, given that it's relatively easy to create a dictionary attack that also swaps characters with their 1337 alternatives. LastPass + randomly-generated, per-site passwords is a much more secure (and more convenient) solution. Commented Jan 24, 2017 at 21:30
  • @NathanArthur True. Just pointing out that it's enough to stop casual cracking, usually, and relatively simple to remember. If someone wanted to make a good password by hand, I would recommend a multi-word password that employs a mix of misspellings, l33t, and "l33t-lite", such as turning correcthorsebatterystaple into kH0Rr3k+|-|oR$|=|34tTerRyztAp1e; still not as secure as a generated password, but a decent tester says the latter is significantly better than the former. Commented Jan 25, 2017 at 18:07
20

I believe the answer should be "NO, this should not be allowed." Reasons why are covered by other answers, but the big one is there are a number of situations where the titles just won't display correctly at all, even for people who would otherwise understand them.

BUT

Then you get to the question of enforcement. I don't think it's a good idea to change anything at all in the code-base towards enforcing it. Rather, I'd like to see this formally listed as one of the question guidelines, and then leave it up to the community to enforce via edits and flags, as already happens.

Listing it as a rule might help ward off additional abuse, but mostly the idea is to encourage users that this is an okay reason to edit or flag, and to give moderators something to point at if the need arises.

Effectively, this should work much like the duplicates and other filters. While duplicates are technically forbidden, occasionally a duplicate question comes up that still manages to find an audience, words things in a creative new way that helps pull in Google traffic towards the issue, or sometimes just misses close votes... and that the filter is imperfect in this way is a feature, not a bug. The same thing can work here, has already worked here.

13

I may be mistaken, but I believe that Unicode does have a way to transform such "formatted" characters back into their original, unformatted forms. If that is the case, we need not discard all of Unicode just to prevent people from doing this. We merely need to employ that mechanism to get rid of certain unpleasant codepoints.

Maybe if more than half of your title contains "formatted" codepoints that map to regular characters, we can prevent them from posting.

Edit: Below is a screenshot of what this posts title looks like in its current form, ala unformatted:
Unformatted Unicode Displaying in a Browser Tab

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  • 1
    Yeah that's called normalization. À to A and é to e and so on. I don't really see a reason to use characters with accents on the English Stack Overflow, as English hardly, if ever, uses accented characters. But for Portuguese and so on...
    – CodeCaster
    Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 9:30
  • 2
    @CodeCaster Unicode normalisation never strips accents (or other combining sequences), but will replace font variants with their equivalent, plain forms (such as in the title of this question).
    – 一二三
    Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 9:50
  • 17
    @CodeCaster no, that's not what normalization is. The normalized form of À is À (or À), and the normalized form of 🅿 is 🅿. Downconverting to ASCII (or something like) is a different task that the Unicode data doesn't really provide for, although there are tools to be had (like Text::Unidecode).
    – hobbs
    Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 9:55
  • 7
    I mean NFKD, normalization through decomposition, which you can then strip the combining characters from. Again, might be useful for English where you generally only use A-Z in titles (in the letters class at least), but not for other cases.
    – CodeCaster
    Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 11:13
  • 2
    @CodeCaster unless you are Tom Christiansen, you are in lot of trouble.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 16:28
  • 1
    @CodeCaster generally, yes - but as we are programmers, it's not uncommon to encounter charset-spesific problems that can have pretty much any character
    – eis
    Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 20:05
  • 2
    actually it is called accentfolding. If you google it you can see it is not a simple task
    – Summer-Sky
    Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 20:16
  • Instead of normalizing, it would be more useful to simply show the XML encoding of the character (e.g. é) above a certain value (to exclude accents from the same treatment... You still have the source character value but you cannot use it for formatting. Commented Jan 23, 2017 at 5:58
  • 1
    @CodeCaster: unless you have trouble implementing the <non-English author> algorithm…
    – Holger
    Commented Jan 23, 2017 at 10:45
  • @CodeCaster most of the characters you would want to clean up don't decompose.
    – hobbs
    Commented Jan 24, 2017 at 4:39
  • 2
    @Braiam He’s in a lot of trouble.
    – tchrist
    Commented Jul 22, 2018 at 23:00
  • 1
    @CodeCaster: Talk about déjà vu - à la memory - vis-à-vis to remember something. Or perhaps it is time for a coup d'état? Commented May 25, 2020 at 23:49
  • @Peter yeah, forget everything I said in this comment thread three and a half years ago.
    – CodeCaster
    Commented May 26, 2020 at 8:11
2

Weighing both positives and negatives I would probably say no. The number of questions asked by new members is exponentially more than old members and if formatting is allowed then people wont just use it for the context presented by op.

n number of questions will float around with formatting just to beautify stuff(from their perspective) or just to make it look different - well that is human nature, cannot ignore it.

And it is not that critical a point, you can simply use words to represent that symbol and then you can explain it properly in main text.

1

This is a very relevant question to meta, so kudos to you.

I agree that unicode characters have potential for use and abuse, however I have yet to see titles formatted this way, and I'm inclined to think the abuse is minimal. As such, I think this is best moderated on a case-by-case basis. It should be frowned upon due to the implicit expectation that users have a fully-compliant Unicode browser and font.

However it can also serve a constructive purpose in that it can be used to provide emphasis or explanation that ASCII cannot. The most immediate examples are questions about programs crashing while parsing certain unicode byte sequences. I've encountered a few such programs and it is helpful to be able to distribute the sequence for testing purposes as part of a Minimal, Complete, Verifiable Example.


To elaborate on my stance, I'm definitely not against the use of unicode in titles for subtle formatting and emphasis. But because it limits the ability of some users on older platforms to examine the question quickly, it may be a prudent idea to include a user account setting to automatically convert unicode into ASCII, where converted text is given some form of formatting to differentiate it from ordinary text. Perhaps emboldening it and wrapping it in // may help. Users with older browsers who enabled the feature would see your title as /Should Formatting in Titles Be Permitted/, for example. EDIT: My mobile phone actually only displays "[boxes] Permitted", so a setting like this may have a much wider benefit than I initially thought.

Though it's inevitable that an implementation will still occasionally garble the text, even a small degree of support will greatly improve the experience on SO for those unfortunate users who can't view some portions of unicode.

A simpler option is to detect the use of unicode on a page and produce a banner that politely suggests a browser and font (one for each major OS) that are known to play nicely, if the viewer happens to be seeing boxes or question marks everywhere. Along the lines of "We've noticed this question contains Unicode characters. If you are having trouble viewing them, these configurations seem to work well: ..."

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    OK‚ if by ”detect the use of unicode on a page” you mean ”detect the use of lesser-used characters”. Otherwise‚ everything is Unicode and everybody would always get the banner…
    – Mr Lister
    Commented Jan 23, 2017 at 10:46
  • Good point. I wasn't sure how difficult it would be to define which characters are less used, though a good start is any utf8 beyond the first 7 bits. Handling and displaying unicode is a responsibility of the browser, so I don't think an elaborate solution is necessary. Just enough to point a user in the right direction of they have trouble.
    – Aaron3468
    Commented Jan 24, 2017 at 18:14
1

There is one thing that needs to be blocked: any character with a General Category of Cc (Other, control), Cf (Other, format), Cs (Other, surrogate), or Co (Other, private-use), and the 66 characters that are permanently in Cn (Other, not assigned, specifically the noncharacters).

Everything else should be permitted, including characters that might move out of Cn in future versions (that is, Other, not assigned, reserved).

While there are a few characters from Cf that might be whitelisted, but that would be done on a case-by-case basis, as much of Cf is outright dangerous.

4
  • @NathanTuggy: much better, thanks. As for this answer: yes, these codes may (could?) be used for malicious intent. However, the question is about abuse to draw attention.
    – Jongware
    Commented Jan 25, 2017 at 0:52
  • Could you elaborate why these characters would be dangerous in the context of a question title? Commented Jan 25, 2017 at 2:02
  • @Carpetsmoker because they make programs do weird things - and they remain in effect for following text. Some in the browser, some when copy-pasted out. RTL marks in particular are nasty.
    – o11c
    Commented Jan 25, 2017 at 2:09
  • 1
    @o11c Yeah, ⅃ΤЯ is pretty unfriendly, ¡ʇɐɥʇ uɐɥʇ sƃuᴉɥʇ əsɹoʍ ʍouʞ I ʇnq
    – tchrist
    Commented Jul 22, 2018 at 23:06
-8

Formatting is for one purpose: highlight some text and/or make it overall more readable. It should not be overused - no matter where: in comments, or in answers or questions, or even in titles. If it's allowed, there should be a way for moderators or privileged users to remove that formatting. There should be a button called edit title, available to users with certain reputation. This also would be useful for removing any swear words or other otherwise nonallowed text. If formatting's not misused or overused, it should remain - it does the same thing in titles that it does in comments, questions and answers.


EDIT 1 There already is a mechanism for editing titles, so let's just edit overformatted titles it when we can.

1
  • 2
    We can already edit the title when we open up the edit screen on any question. Try pressing edit on a question on Stack Overflow (Not meta since you don't have the rep yet) and you'll see that the title is there ready to be edited.
    – Davy M
    Commented Jul 22, 2018 at 20:49
-11

I think that there should be a rule that indicates when we can use this kind of formatting and when it's not permitted to use it. As was stated earlier, there are some people who have problems with formatting and need to make their questions more understandable, so totally banning it wouldn't do much.

9
  • 8
    The fact that the title field is a simple single-line text field that only accepts plain text should be enough of an indication that only plain text titles are acceptable.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 10:11
  • 2
    You say that, but what about the people who try and post their entire code in a comment, @boltclock?
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 10:13
  • 2
    I don't follow, @Cody. Code dump comments are subject to flagging and deletion all the same.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 10:17
  • 1
    @Cody Gray: Oh, the fact that the comment field is multiline despite line breaks being ignored in comments? Yeah, you got me there.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 10:18
  • 1
    No, I really meant that it should be completely obvious that multi-line code blocks don't belong in comments, yet they get posted there all the time. Of course, they are subject to flagging and deletion. So would be questions with these types of titles. @boltclock
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jan 22, 2017 at 10:26
  • @CodyGray: That's where "should be" comes in ;) It's clear to us sensible folk, and we can clean up after the rest of them Commented Jan 25, 2017 at 10:08
  • 1
    The problem with some of these policies is that many people who haven't been part of the meta discussion don't anticipate them or have the distilled rationale. Seems like the system, upon detecting UNICODE might pop-up a warning about proper/improper use before letting someone submit a question with a UNICODE title if there is really a strict policy about it, in order to give people fair notice. A lot of people here act like "Because I said so!" and "ignorance of the law is no excuse", but fair warning is only fair otherwise it's just authoritarian and punitive like a speed trap or worse.
    – clearlight
    Commented Jan 25, 2017 at 20:28
  • 1
    Some people are of the temperament that before you can use the site you have to RTFM, all of it, everywhere, but the reality is people don't necessarily all have the time or inclination to get into every nook and cranny of how Stack Overflow works, and it takes time, even if one is open to learning, and people need to know the priority stuff, and things slip through the cracks. For serious rules like this it seems like the warnings should be more prominent.
    – clearlight
    Commented Jan 25, 2017 at 20:30
  • It is NOT obvious that any use of formatting, even let's say a single italicized word, would be heavily frowned on by the authorities here.
    – clearlight
    Commented Jan 25, 2017 at 20:55
-13

Coming to Stack Overflow only about a year ago, new both to non GUI, OSX Terminal, and Stack Exchange(SE) generally, I offer the following thoughts.

I suggest that formatted titles should be a permission granted in the form of a new permission after reaching a certain reputation point level, and possibly a badge.

For a completely new user to SE, there is a novelty in learning how to use formatting in ones answers to questions. Also one is still acquiring an appreciation of the underlying order and flow that has been so carefully crafted in SE.

At this stage it would be very tempting to play with formatting in a posted question, not appreciating the context, common practice, and standards.

While such practice is currently rare, I suggest that is in part because, viewing questions formatting is absent, one assumes it is not done or possible. However if some newer users begin to use it, and other newer users see it used, that 'rarity' may change. Or it may not. I speculate.

If new users are tempted to play with formatting in questions eg make a question all bold to attract attention, this could lead to more experienced users increased overheads in time to respond to inappropriate use of formatting.

If formatting in questions is allowed after say 200 reputation points, and with possibly a badge, not only has the experience curve of 'typical practice' been acquired by the SE participant, and the initial novelty of SE posting worn off, but the badge can reference the need to only use formatting when required as necessary to present a special character or similar to make the question clear to its purpose, as opposed to just making bold to try and get more attention.

I think this would be a good 'balance' of considerations.

In this way, more experienced users over say 200 reputation points can edit a question to add an appropriate format if such is called for, for clarity.

The 200 reputation may not be the correct experience level, but used as an example.

I lack the experience to have the nuance to see how to implement in the reputation and badge system, but I think the suggestion as a possible contributing thought to a solution is made clear.

22
  • 2
    Wow, a genuine view, a genuine contribution, and so many negative votes with no comment as to why? I thought stack exchange meta was to air ideas. I suspect, given lack of any comments as to why that this is simply idea stacking, like branch stacking. Ouch. I can not afford the consequence of down votes, so I am going to delete this contribution shortly.
    – Cam_Aust
    Commented Jan 23, 2017 at 2:45
  • 8
    The problem with making title formatting a privilege is that it would only make sense if title formatting was useful, and by and large it isn't. Question body formatting, on the other hand, is extremely useful, and should be available to everyone regardless of reputation.
    – duplode
    Commented Jan 23, 2017 at 2:49
  • 12
    (By the way, you don't need to delete this answer -- downvotes on Meta do not affect your reputation or your standing in the main site. Also, when a Meta post proposes a feature, like this answer does, downvotes generally mean disagreement with the suggestion, and not that the post is worthy of delention.)
    – duplode
    Commented Jan 23, 2017 at 2:50
  • @duplode Thank you for your comments. Re formatting, I agree with your view, though I was swayed by the example that there can be exceptions where in some limited formatting may be of value. Hence reading through, I came to my suggestion.
    – Cam_Aust
    Commented Jan 23, 2017 at 2:55
  • @duplode I also thank you for advising of the negative votes. I dedicatingly participated in another SE group, as acknowledged by a key moderator type person. I was so heavily targeted and redirected with seemingly every post, that I went out backwards. It was in an area of great personal passion and experience. Each down vote always justified (plausable) but extinguishing of participation or tolerance.
    – Cam_Aust
    Commented Jan 23, 2017 at 2:59
  • @duplode The experience above on this other SE group led to writing my first bit of verse in a decade. "Ode to an SE Group". About 3 days work unpicking the experience. I wrote a long passionate dissection for that groups meta, but never posted the outcome. Could not finish so just ceased participation in that group. Sad. Hence a bit touchy.
    – Cam_Aust
    Commented Jan 23, 2017 at 3:04
  • You may also have touched a nerve here. "Privileges", reputation, and how they relate to new users, are frequent topics here on Meta. This is probably due to SO being the flagship site of Stack Exchange, and with an influx of n00bs in the order of more than 3,000 users per day it often feels like fighting windmills.
    – Jongware
    Commented Jan 23, 2017 at 11:29
  • 3
    You seem to be answering a different thing than what is being asked here. Although the title says "formatting", it doesn't really mean formatting — it means abuse of Unicode to achieve quasi-formatted titles, since actual formatting in titles is not allowed.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jan 23, 2017 at 16:51
  • 1
    @RadLexus Astonishing. Raw nerve touched, appreciate the explanation. Though, this being true, I was raising just such a concern if formatting were to be allowed in questions. Just that concern. n00bs, having been one only a year ago. Cody Gray was also correct in that I did not understand the issue precisely re difference formatting vs changes to Unicode. I also wonder how allowing such would impair or complicate internal search engines, and what people put into them.
    – Cam_Aust
    Commented Jan 23, 2017 at 23:48
  • 1
    @Code Gray. You are correct I did not understand that difference, even though it was mention on the python main chat when I was there last. Thanks, appreciated. My response to this question was, leave it as it is. I was swayed by anothers point to consider, now I understand better, I agree fully, leave it as it is now.
    – Cam_Aust
    Commented Jan 23, 2017 at 23:51
  • Even though I have attracted a -9 (so far) I do very much appreciate the comments and feedback. Thanks. Moving on from this discussion.
    – Cam_Aust
    Commented Jan 24, 2017 at 8:41
  • 2
    I don't think this is a great idea because in a way this allows experienced users (i.e., those who have high rep) to "advertise" their questions by , for example, bolding their question title, while low-rep users (lurkers such as myself) are left behind. Besides, a question title should be self-explanatory enough that formatting should not be necessary anyways (with the only exception being this very meta post).
    – Mage Xy
    Commented Jan 24, 2017 at 21:05
  • @Mage Xy That is a good point as well. Such might be moderated if the threshold for permission was very high perhaps, in that I think those very experienced and committing so much time, love the site too much to resort to such, and would have no need. In any case, I agree with your view. I have returned to my initial view, aligned with yours, keep it as it is, no formatting. Works fine as it is. The issue, by the way, as explained by Code Gray, is not formatting in the normal sense, eg adding bold text, but rather using altered (hacked?) Unicode. See a few comments up by him.
    – Cam_Aust
    Commented Jan 25, 2017 at 1:32
  • @Cam_Aust -there are a lot of mean-spirited coldhearted, even immature people and trolls, even in well-organized technocracies. Not everyone is like that, but anything open-minded, liberal, free thinking, or that expects fair treatment is going to be frowned on immediately by authoritarian sorts here, so, you'd better get used to it. Like in the real world, some people prefer a dictatorship and blind obedience to a monarchy regardless of whether the charter espouses democracy. A newbie shocked by this is in for an unpleasant surprise. You must shut up and go along to get along or be ridiculed
    – clearlight
    Commented Jan 25, 2017 at 20:39
  • @clearlight Stackoverflow seems such a wonderful collaborative effort, I tend to assume such issues have been weeded out as part of the structure. Being fairly new, and learning, in most situations I do not yet have the experience base to judge the behaviour of others and the response, hence I do very much appreciate your comment. The initial response here did feel like a degree of troll behaviour, but perceptions can be wrong. I have felt it on another SE group, pushed out. Let me just say thank you for what was not clear and discernible with certainty from my relativistic position.
    – Cam_Aust
    Commented Jan 26, 2017 at 1:01

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