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This question came up during a review. As many of you can see, all three people voted that the question should be edited to include more information - as it could have been a quality question, with enough detail.

Today, when I tried to enter "Review," I saw this: Review Lockout

... which, I assume means, I'm locked out temporarily for making a bad suggestion? Yet, if you look at the question, it isn't closed as 'Unsalvageable,' in fact, it shows the same recommendation. The user is suggested to edit the question, so that it's not "On Hold."

Question Status

So, we seem to have contradictory information. Furthermore, I'm surprised I'm temporarily banned from reviewing, especially given the ambiguous nature of the specific question being referenced.

Would someone please explain, a bit more in detail, as to why I'm being penalized?

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    Leaving aside the validty of your review, you don't get suspended for just one unless it was moderator imposed.
    – Paulie_D
    Commented Nov 28, 2016 at 16:56
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    It's a question without code. The OP should add their code. "Requires editing" should only be used when the community can edit the post to make it better, not when the OP needs to provide additional information. I agree that the usage instructions for Triage are unclear, and this has been brought up several times on meta. Thus far, nothing significantly has changed though :-/ Commented Nov 28, 2016 at 16:57
  • @Paulie_D Unless a mod hands out a suspension manually...? Commented Nov 28, 2016 at 17:00
  • @MikeMcCaughan Yeah, just edited that in.
    – Paulie_D
    Commented Nov 28, 2016 at 17:01
  • @Carpetsmoker - Thank you, but last I saw, there were still guidelines for "Requires Editing" as "...where edits by the author or others would result in a question that is clear and answerable..." Is there some place I can see failed audits that may have stacked up? I don't recall many recently.
    – gravity
    Commented Nov 28, 2016 at 17:07
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    @gravity This is a manual moderator ban. Commented Nov 28, 2016 at 17:08
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    @Carpetsmoker it's the exact same situation: a moderator closing an off-topic question and handing out review bans to Triage reviewers who chose 'Require editing' because it means something else than is shown during the review queue (which has been discussed to death before). I agree this (Meta) question is well-posed, but that doesn't stop it from being a duplicate.
    – Glorfindel
    Commented Nov 28, 2016 at 17:08
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    Everyone who voted "Requires Editing" on that question was manually banned by a moderator. I'll ping them and see if they want to explain further, but I should note that "Requires Editing" means "requires editing by the community", not "requires editing by the poster". There's little the community could do to salvage that.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Nov 28, 2016 at 17:09
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    Thank you all for clarifying - but I genuinely have read repeatedly that ".. by the author or others.." as recently as within the last few weeks. I've tried to stick to it. I'm surprised we all got manually banned, too. That disappoints me. I feel like I contribute in a fair and helpful manner.
    – gravity
    Commented Nov 28, 2016 at 17:10
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    @gravity Yeah, a lot of people want that wording changed as it does not reflect what that button is actually for. A triage review marked "Requires Editing" sends the post to the Help and Improvement Queue, where the community attempts to edit it. If the post can't be edited by the community, then it shouldn't be sent there. The guidance in the queue is misleading, but has not been changed to reflect actual usage.
    – Kendra
    Commented Nov 28, 2016 at 17:13
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    "I feel like I contribute in a fair and helpful manner" Look on the bright side. Now that you know what did you do wrong, you can be even more helpful in the future. Commented Nov 28, 2016 at 17:13
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    @gravity by the author or others is unfortunately vague and misleading. The consensus that I've seen here is that it means that "it can be edited by anyone". So, yes that question requires editing, but no one can edit it because the OP did not provide missing information. So it should be marked as unsalvagable Commented Nov 28, 2016 at 17:14
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    Possible duplicate of Please rename the "Should be improved" button
    – gnat
    Commented Nov 28, 2016 at 17:41
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  • 8
    @gravity - You're asking the wrong person. Only staff can change this. I agree that something needs to be changed here, but I can't do anything about it myself.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Nov 28, 2016 at 18:38

1 Answer 1

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I was the moderator who applied the review ban here. I'll try to outline my thinking although my thoughts on this subject are already well known.

In my view the flaws in this deeply flawed question go far beyond what would be considered a reasonable edit. The only way to make this as it stood during review into a decent question was to completely rework almost the whole question to the point where a fixed question and the original question would be almost unrecognisable as connected. That still applies even disregarding the unclear wording of the triage labels and opaque implications of the "requires editing" triage option. The question itself was so bad that several people believed it to be spam, which was how I came across it in the first place. (I didn't agree with that judgement, I think it's just a severely misguided question author but that's besides the point).

In total I banned 7 people for the reviews on that one question - it went through triage not once, but twice and survived a first post review too. To make matters worse it was then re-asked, presumably on the basis of a lack of answers. I don't have access to stats on how many people skipped it in H&I, but I'd wager it was non-zero. That's a whole lot of wasted effort that I believe could have been avoided if the initial triage process had gone "unsalvagable->should be closed->off topic->questions seeking debugging help..."

Without mod messaging (which leaves a permanent annotation on your account and has much longer term impact) there's no way for me to give feedback on the review process other than through short bans. There's no point anyone seeing bad reviews and sitting on them - that will only lead to an acceptance of incorrect reviewing and a decline in the SNR of the H&I queue which triage ultimately feeds.

In short I don't want this to be a major deterrent to reviewing and hope you'll see it as constructive feedback through the only feedback channel open.

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  • I appreciate the feedback, and the note in regards to the issue with the triage "help" expansion (literally) saying the edit can be done, "... by the author..." as it still says, I believe. However - are mods not provided with an automatic 'tiered' suspension? i.e.: I've never been suspended before (that I'm aware of), and to give a 2nd-level ban instantly seems harsh.
    – gravity
    Commented Nov 28, 2016 at 20:44
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    Further... why have so many requests and clearly documented issues with this misdirection and misinformation just gone unnoticed? It clearly misinforms the triage, in its own documentation, that author edits are appropriate for that button.
    – gravity
    Commented Nov 28, 2016 at 20:45
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    @gravity to be honest this was the first time I'd used the new review suspension UI so I was playing it by ear a little on the duration. My general rule of thumb is that it needs to be at least long enough to guarantee that the message is actually seen by the reviewer. Anyway on the basis that the message was clearly received and understood I've cleared the ban manually now. Commented Nov 28, 2016 at 20:48
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    Thanks. That's much appreciated. My primary concern is that we're misleading (and potentially deterring) people from being a part of the community. There's already plenty of bug tags on requests to fix this. Who needs a heads up, I guess is the point now.
    – gravity
    Commented Nov 28, 2016 at 20:50
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    @gravity shog9 is clearly aware of this. Personally I think I'd favor changing the text to read "send to H&I queue" or similar. Commented Nov 28, 2016 at 20:52
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    I think the focus there is fine, but hitting (more) still has the mention of the author. I think that genuinely needs to be removed. More along the lines of what is discussed here. The Shog9 question is more pointing to the FAQ, before you hit (more). That's also from 7 months ago...
    – gravity
    Commented Nov 28, 2016 at 20:56
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    @gravity I don't think mentioning the author is outright wrong, they're always going to be one of the people who can make an edit, just hopefully not the only person who would realistically do it. Commented Nov 28, 2016 at 20:59
  • Amidst the current world-wide situation, happened to sift through Meta and come back across this Q&A. Decided it to be "appro-po" to mention I've rarely (maybe not often at all) returned to triage after this. Let alone some of the "shoot from the hip behavior" (NOT looking at Flexo by any means - as this was very amicably resolved, thankfully) we've seen elsewhere. It's just indicative of policy and procedure failures that seem to be improving, but nonetheless have a "lasting effect" on end users. That said, I'll probably help triage more in the near future, thanks to this good answer.
    – gravity
    Commented Apr 17, 2020 at 18:59

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