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I was checking the review queue before heading home for the day and got this:

You have made too many incorrect reviews. For an example of a task you should have reviewed differently, see: https://stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/12839638 Come back in 3 days to continue reviewing.

I've seen lots of edits go through to format a small amount of code as code, which was the case in this one, and it also included a couple of wording changes -- like removing "Hey guys" -- which I thought was also encouraged.

Is it because it didn't clean up the grammar enough?

OH!

Is it because it was an answer that was actually another question that should have been rejected as a question?

Are we expected to judge the original quality of the original question / answer along with the review of the edit?

Edit:

I'm going to go ahead and click the accept as duplicate button (oh, now it's gone), but will first add...

My arguments are almost identical to the other one and this has been hashed out unsuccessfully before:

  • The UI doesn't indicate effectively this is an answer not a question. You have to notice "answered yesterday" underneath the tags:

Picture of Answer

  • The edit review tools don't encourage any action other than dealing directly with the edit on the merit of the textual diff.

  • The edit review tools don't show that this answer is flagged as a bad answer

  • The edit review audits don't include this case (it also doesn't include cases where people change code in question, which I thought was discouraged.)

There seems to be room for improvement here to drive better behavior, but the consensus seems to be the status quo is good enough.

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  • Your edit is actually approved? So I don't get what you're asking about. Commented Jun 28, 2016 at 23:52
  • 1
    Yes, that answer should not have been edited; it should have been flagged as "not an answer".
    – user2285236
    Commented Jun 28, 2016 at 23:53
  • I was review banned for approving the edit of the answer (not the posting of the answer). I didn't edit it.
    – rrauenza
    Commented Jun 28, 2016 at 23:53
  • 2
    I always see edits as "does this improve the site or no?" so OF COURSE you judge the overall post as well. <2Kers get rep from approved suggestions... Make them count
    – Patrice
    Commented Jun 28, 2016 at 23:55
  • 8
    I personally find it very annoying that question and answers look nearly identical, except for the one place where it says "answered". I find it very disorienting, since none of the other queues are like that.
    – Laurel
    Commented Jun 28, 2016 at 23:58
  • @Laurel Thank you, I feel the same way. It was not obvious to me that this was a (bad) answer and not a question.
    – rrauenza
    Commented Jun 28, 2016 at 23:58
  • I think the gist of my question is: Is this penalty as the system intended, or is this outside the intent of the penalty system? Did the bad answer get deleted by a moderator and anyone who touched it get penalized whether they were acting in good faith or not?
    – rrauenza
    Commented Jun 29, 2016 at 0:02
  • @rrauenza IIRC, if you get banned for approving something that ended up being approved... Yeah, a mod was involved in that ban
    – Patrice
    Commented Jun 29, 2016 at 0:02
  • @Patrice did you mean ended up being deleted?
    – rrauenza
    Commented Jun 29, 2016 at 0:09
  • @rrauenza i mean that the suggestion went through first. (Then it got deleted, but yeah). If you get banned from a review queue, it's because: 1) you failed too many audits or 2) you misreviewed something and a mod flagged it
    – Patrice
    Commented Jun 29, 2016 at 0:11
  • 3
    Yeah, I disagree with a review ban for that. While it would be good for reviewers to check if it was a non-answer, it's not that big of a deal, and reviewers aren't even told to check for that.
    – hichris123
    Commented Jun 29, 2016 at 0:13
  • @Laurel Given the UI, I disagree with the clearly adjective. The UI could be improved to better indicate answers vs questions. (and yes, the post begins with an intro in what looks like a followup, but I've seen that in actual questions often enough that it didn't raise any red flags.)
    – rrauenza
    Commented Jun 29, 2016 at 16:56
  • 1
    @Laurel , rrauenza: I agree, and I have posted a feature request to make it more clear if the edited post is a question or an answer. Commented Jun 29, 2016 at 19:11
  • A better title would be "Why is this edit review on a non-answer worthy of a review suspension".
    – Nike
    Commented Jan 21, 2023 at 2:08

2 Answers 2

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First off the end state for that "answer" is absolutely that it should be deleted and not one single thing about the edit in question made any changes that should alter the trajectory of it towards deletion. So in my view that edit did not make it any better as an answer because it simply isn't an answer.

None of the reviewers that reviewed it appear to have taken any action that indicated an appreciation of this. From what I saw it looks like a great case of "can't see the forest for the trees".

There are however substantial downsides to approving edits that attempt to "polish a turd":

  1. The editor doesn't realise they should be flagging instead of editing non-answers. (In fact, pretty much the opposite they get a warm fuzzy feeling from an easy +2 rep). There is no learning point for them, they will continue to submit trivial edits to non-answers instead of simply flagging them.
  2. The person who posted the non-answer in the first place potentially sees this as an endorsement of posting non-answers. (In this particular instance the comments on the question from the editor go further to reinforce that, although you can't see that from the edit review view)
  3. In some circumstances reviews are stopped after an edit is made, with the assumption being that the edit has fixed whatever underlying problem caused a review to be required. That assumption doesn't hold if people accept trivial edits that don't do anything to move the content away from the "should be on a trajectory towards deletion" state.

So at the bare minimum I'd expect to see at least a reject and potentially one or more of flag/vote delete/vote down. If it's rightly on a trajectory to deletion don't do things that alter that course unless they fundamentally fix the problem.

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  • 1
    But a review ban for that? Reviewers aren't told to look for that. Further, the +2 an editor gets will be removed when the "answer" is deleted. So why punish reviewers for seeing an edit that improves a post and approving it? I see many more harmful problems; if anything, the suggestor should receive a suspension of their ability to suggest edits.
    – hichris123
    Commented Jun 29, 2016 at 13:54
  • I think what I take issue with is that the reviewer is punished once the original answer was dealt with when this is really a process problem. The review process (the audits, UI, etc.) don't assign this responsibility to the reviewers. There's a lack of clarity in expectations and a review ban for it is pretty frustrating.
    – rrauenza
    Commented Jun 29, 2016 at 16:26
  • 5
    @hichris123 this was by no means the only action I took as a result of that question. I don't see this as much of a punishment, more of a learning point. 3 days is basically the minimum number that ensures the message will get read and whilst I'd love to have better tools/guidance in the present day my options are basically ban or do nothing and accept all three of the negatives above. I'd prefer small pain for learning points that make the review process more useful instead of accepting it sliding and being less useful. Commented Jun 29, 2016 at 16:33
  • 2
    As I noted though, if the answer is deleted, the rep is refunded (so that's #1). #2 is unlikely, and #3 only occurs with VLQ (I believe) flags. And there's always using chat or a comment to say "Hey, just wanted to let you know..." But I see much more pressing review issues; this seems like something too minor to ban for.
    – hichris123
    Commented Jun 29, 2016 at 17:28
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    @hichris123 comments can't ping reviewers. I thought about chat, but the workflow for chat super pings in a private room that the pingee has write access to is way to complex to use for simple stuff like this. For people mostly reviewing well a short manual ban should be seen as a learning point, not a major deal. Commented Jun 29, 2016 at 19:07
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    I can't disagree with this, but I also can't help but sympathize with it seeming unfair in the context of the system as established: it's been said that the point of the review queues is to focus on one task. No "this post is completely inappropriate" action is even available in Edit review, and a "turd polishing" reject reason has been pretty roundly put down. I honestly appreciate you handling this intelligently, but it seems like this points to problems in the system rather than with rrauenza.
    – jscs
    Commented Jun 29, 2016 at 19:23
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The thing being edited was a related question improperly posted as an answer. The edit didn't fix that, so you should have rejected it.

You could have even gone further and flagged it as "Not an Answer" (by going to the question page outside of the edit review system).

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  • 4
    If that is the site's expectation, that expectation is not clear, and seems to be counter to the point of having specific queues for specific review criteria.
    – rrauenza
    Commented Jun 29, 2016 at 0:17
  • 3
    @rrauenza How is it contrary to the purpose of the edit queue to only approve appropriate edits, and not edits that shouldn't be applied, such as this one?
    – Servy
    Commented Jun 29, 2016 at 2:45
  • The edit improved the text of the post. It was more readable and better formatted. If in the end it didn't make SO better, accepting the edit also didn't make SO any worse. The UI doesn't indicate very well that the post was an answer rather than a question.
    – rrauenza
    Commented Jun 29, 2016 at 4:04
  • My understanding of the edit queue is to accept edits that improve the expression or writing of the question to make it clearer without changing its meaning. My understanding is there are other queues to judge whether the original post was even appropriate. If we are expecting to also cull bad original posts in the edit queue, then there should be a flag option?
    – rrauenza
    Commented Jun 29, 2016 at 4:05
  • 2
    @rrauenza There is a problem though. Editing an answer clears NAA flags on it IIRC.
    – Magisch
    Commented Jun 29, 2016 at 6:47
  • @Magisch good point -- enough of one that this metadata should be available to the reviewers so they can make informed decisions if that is the expectation.
    – rrauenza
    Commented Jun 29, 2016 at 16:19
  • @rrauenza accepting the edit also didn't make SO any worse. untrue. It does make the site worse. It can invalidate correct flags and it confirms that this incorrect behavior is okay. Commented Jun 29, 2016 at 17:27
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    @NathanOliver I see that now. The tools and workflow should reflect this.
    – rrauenza
    Commented Jun 29, 2016 at 17:29
  • @Magisch / Nathan: it only invalidates VLQ flags: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/131890/….
    – hichris123
    Commented Jun 29, 2016 at 21:15

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