37

Every now and then I see questions that describe a programming problem, and the asker wants to know what the name of it is, kind of like using SO as a reverse Google. For example, what they are describing might be the 0/1 Knapsack Problem, or the Lights Out Problem, or whatever. The answers to these questions are often pretty lean: either one-liners, or one-liners padded out with a few links and pull quotes. Sometimes the questions even get edited to put the answer right in the title.

I found this question on meta: Are “What is this thing called?” questions on-topic for Stack Overflow? which is very close to mine, but I'm specifically asking about questions that ask to identify a programming problem, not just name a language feature. The thing that makes me unsure is that a lot of other questions are like these types of name-the-problem questions in disguise: the question asker describes a problem and asks how to solve it, but it hasn't occurred to them that it might have a name, and naming it is 9/10ths of solving it. Obviously, questions shouldn't be off-topic just because they are about something that has a name.

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    Joel Spolsky (the CEO of the company that owns this website) likes this kind of Q+A. It is only really off-topic if you can vote it to be off-topic. You can't, not anymore. Some notes on how it got that way in this post. Commented Jun 18, 2016 at 11:54
  • At least the user has recognised that the programming problem has probably occurred previously. It would come under "if your question generally covers… a software algorithm" as on-topic. I think a downvote would be appropriate if it is not particularly difficult to find the name of the algorithm. Commented Jun 18, 2016 at 16:58
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    Meh, this is yet another spawn of "identify this algo".
    – Braiam
    Commented Jun 18, 2016 at 17:17
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    Such questions are indeed harder to close than they were before (as Hans points out), but they did leave us one loophole: the generic "off-topic" reason, the one that prompts you to enter a custom message. If you can coherently articulate why you think the question runs afoul of Stack Overflow's mission/purpose/guidelines, and is therefore off-topic, you can vote to close it accordingly. Obviously if you abuse this, the community team may come looking for you, but if you're closing crap, they will not care.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jun 19, 2016 at 8:47
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    @HansPassant: It's off-topic if five people agree that it is off-topic. SO has a more specific scope today than it ever had.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Jun 19, 2016 at 15:39
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    Theoretically, gathering 5 is pretty hard today. Suppressing speech has been a very effective technique to create that problem. Commented Jun 19, 2016 at 15:54
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    I think they serve a purpose: letting other users with a similar problem find good answers by telling them which search terms to use. That would still work if we marked them as a duplicate of a question that asks how to solve the problem, but I'm not sure that's the right way to use the "duplicate" feature, since the questions aren't really identical. Commented Jun 19, 2016 at 17:09
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    @HansPassant - I honestly didn't make the connection. What speech was suppressed and how?
    – Travis J
    Commented Jun 20, 2016 at 18:53

5 Answers 5

41

These are tough - I've asked one of these on the Computer Science stack in the past (ie: What is the formal name of this problem?). For those who know the answer they're very fast and easy to answer. For those who don't, they can be very difficult to find answers to. Most algorithm problems are known by these formal names precisely because a natural language description of the problem is complex and they can be very difficult to search for.

If you know the formal name you can immediately start researching solutions to your problem - it's like a magic keyword that unlocks a Narnia of information. But if you don't have this keyword then it can be a tedious proposition to start scouring texts and the literature until you stumble upon what you're looking for.

As a Stack Overflow question (or any stack exchange question, for that matter) it is a pretty poor question. Specifically, it's the type of question that does not have much lasting value for general readers - precisely so because it falls victim to the same problem that gives rise to the question in the first place, namely that the question will involve some natural language description of the problem that is as equally un-searchable as any other description. Anyone in the future with a similar question will be unlikely to find the answer since it would rely on knowing the critical keyword that the asker is looking for. It's a total catch-22.

For questions that are purely looking for the name of a known problem, the best place to ask these might simply be in chat.

For questions that are looking for a solution to a known problem, maybe best to edit the question and add the appropriate formal names/tags, then treat it like any other question. If there's a good duplicate, close it as a duplicate. If the question is too broad, close it as too broad, etc.

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    While I sympathise with the OPs of such questions, I agree that they aren't much use for future readers, for the reasons stated in your 3rd paragraph. So I tend to close-vote as to broad, but I leave a comment mentioning the name of the algorithm (usually with a Wikipedia link) and also links to relevant SO question(s). I also agree that Chat is a much better venue for this type of question.
    – PM 2Ring
    Commented Jun 20, 2016 at 12:38
  • I think an argument about "hard to find" is mute. As long as there is enough duplicates with different wording, future readers would instantly Google out the question using natural language terms they know.
    – Basilevs
    Commented Jun 20, 2016 at 16:36
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    @Basilevs I considered that, but I'm really not sure. Natural language descriptions are ususally going to involve some sort of generic example and everyone will use different wording in different ways... it's such an abstract expression that I think it would be exceedingly difficult for any search algorithm to find general traction with. Consider an example of 3-Dimensional Matching - try to find that using Google without using "3-dimensional matching" as a search term. How would you do it?
    – J...
    Commented Jun 20, 2016 at 16:40
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    @Basilevs I think you think the argument is moot, not mute ;). Commented Jun 20, 2016 at 16:42
  • Related to these kinds of questions are the kind where knowing what term to search for turns up the answer immediately, but not knowing makes it very difficult to search for. These can be usually closed as duplicates, but these are duplicates that I usually end up upvoting, because they don't necessarily show lack of research effort, and because having more signposts to a canonical answer helps a lot. Commented Jun 21, 2016 at 13:32
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I would accept as a suitable question, "How would I solve this problem, and is there a well-known solution for it?" That way, OP isn't treating Stack Overflow as merely a reverse-dictionary lookup or Google Search assistance.

Many folks asking questions like this have fallen into the "everything is a software pattern" trap, and rather than asking a specific question about a specific problem, are looking for a pattern in the almighty Book of Patterns™ to solve it.

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  • Can you get the almighty Book of Patterns™ at Amazon? :-) Commented Jun 20, 2016 at 16:14
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    @JohnBollinger I heard that Borders had a copy...
    – Braiam
    Commented Jun 20, 2016 at 17:24
  • Doesn't this just lead to users presenting their problem as a description and asking for a solution though? For example, something like this stackoverflow.com/questions/37448129/…
    – Travis J
    Commented Jun 20, 2016 at 18:50
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    @TravisJ: That example is Too Broad. There's a right way to ask "how to" questions; that's not it.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Jun 20, 2016 at 18:53
  • I'm confused by your second paragraph. Doesn't considering the OP's intentions rather than just the question go against the spirit of SO?
    – aebabis
    Commented Jun 20, 2016 at 22:04
  • @acbabis The XY problem has been around for a long time. If the OP is making a mistake in the thing they are asking about, there's no reason we can't help them with that. Commented Jun 20, 2016 at 22:06
  • @NathanTuggy The correct response to an XY question is answer it (if it has merit independent of OP's intent), then caution them about potential pitfalls. It's a bad idea to close a question under the presumption that the OP doesn't know what they're talking about.
    – aebabis
    Commented Jun 20, 2016 at 22:22
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    @acbabis: None of that changes the fact that "Name that Thing" is essentially a reverse dictionary lookup or Google help.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Jun 20, 2016 at 22:33
0

I think that naming questions could run successfully on a separate site with different posting rules modeled after those at Code Golf.SE:

questions on this site should have:

  1. A clear specification of what constitutes a correct submission, so that it is possible to indisputably decide whether an entry is valid or not...
  2. An objective primary winning criterion, so that it is possible to indisputably decide which entry should win.

I believe rules like above (if followed as firmly as at Code Golf) would prevent naming questions from degrading into opinion polls / guessing games.


Technically, an alternative could be setting such rules for "naming golf" questions right here, at Stack Overflow but I doubt that this will work. It failed for code golf questions at SO and I don't see how it wouldn't fail for naming ones.

...Which is not surprising if you think of it. Even if naming golf rules were somehow officially integrated into SO guidance, in the end of the day you will have a typical SO regular who is used and conditioned to see how things work in 99,9% typical SO coding problems come to see that 0.1% unusual naming golf only to get confused and frustrated why rules for these differ so drastically. This will be no fun.


(somewhat related: Thought experiment: What would happen if we didn't have close votes? "motivate building more appropriate place(s) for the kind of content that is good per se but has the only drawback of not fitting the Q/A model and norms of a particular site")

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I agree with J...'s and Robert Harvey's answers, but I have my additional 2 cents to add:

NO.

We are all of differing skill levels, educational backgrounds, language skills (speaking/written/programming), and the like. Differing levels of discussion should be both expected and welcomed. Getting beaten on because of an inferior "skill level" because the OP want's to know what's happening is in direct contradiction of Stack Overflow's mission.

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    Stack Overflow has a well stated mission, and is not like other web forums precisely because of that different mission. Commented Jun 20, 2016 at 16:44
  • IMO, any web forum is "Ask Question - Get Answer(s)" SO's layout and additional functionality is a HUGE improvement on that model. Commented Jun 20, 2016 at 16:51
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    Just because someone doesn't know the term they are searching for doesn't make a question off-topic. As i stated before, not knowing the right terminology may be because of skill, language, resource, or a hundred other variables. As long as the OP attempted to do their due diligence first, and isn't duplicating questions, does not make the question "off topic" because they are a less knowledgeable user Commented Jun 20, 2016 at 17:01
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    You seem to have some fundamental misconceptions. SE is not a forum, and it doesn't work the same way as forums do.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Jun 20, 2016 at 17:36
  • dictionary.com/browse/forum?s=t - an assembly, meeting place, television program, etc., for the discussion of questions of public interest. Also called online forum, Internet forum, Web forum. message board... please explain how this is not a forum, in the generally accepted definition of the word. Ironically, this is also the point I am trying to make... Using an "English Description" or common language phrasing to describe an issue or question does not make the question any less relevant. In fact, it enhances the mission of the site by making the information more accessable Commented Jun 20, 2016 at 19:04
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    "...for the discussion of questions..." From the official tour page: "Ask questions, get answers, no distractions This site is all about getting answers. It's not a discussion forum. [emphasis mine] There's no chit-chat." See also: Is Stack Overflow a forum?
    – jscs
    Commented Jun 20, 2016 at 19:43
  • Thank you @JoshCaswell. i stand corrected. However, please see: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/8162/… meta.stackexchange.com/questions/89138/… meta.stackexchange.com/questions/19280/… as these posts are what I'm trying to say in my answer. Just because a question isn't "perfect" doesn't make it "off topic" Commented Jun 20, 2016 at 20:46
-13

I think that this question in more posed for Programers.SE rather than Stack Overflow, since Stack Overflow is used particularly for Code fixes and things that are directly related to the lines of code.

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    I'd be careful with site recommendations if you're not really well experienced with the other site - it's not always obvious what is on topic over there and what isn't.
    – Pekka
    Commented Jun 19, 2016 at 10:49
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    Yeah, you're basically using the old NPR criteria of "If it doesn't work on SO, trashcan it to Programmers." That doesn't work anymore, if it ever did.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Jun 19, 2016 at 15:14
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    I don't think programming is on-topic on Programmers.SE anyway. That site exists for use purpose: to solve the mystery of what the site's own scope should contain.
    – Lundin
    Commented Jun 20, 2016 at 10:52
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    @Lundin: New Site Name and Scope Proposals
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Jun 20, 2016 at 16:17
  • @RobertHarvey Best of luck with that. I deleted my account there long time ago. The site problems were not so much caused by new users posting trash, as by zealous veteran users moderating the site to death.
    – Lundin
    Commented Jun 21, 2016 at 7:29
  • @Lundin: Well, you can hardly blame them. Programmers was regularly used as the trashcan for SO until the veteran users put the hammer down. The Workplace handles the "as a programmer" soft questions better than Programmers ever did.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Jun 21, 2016 at 14:36
  • @RobertHarvey Yeah they put the hammer down against posts containing x. Where every single veteran user, including moderators, had their own private, secret definition of what was on-topic. With such site culture, there can't be many quality users left. Or quality posts, for that matter.
    – Lundin
    Commented Jun 22, 2016 at 6:38
  • @Lundin: You should read this: We already tried supporting those questions, we even gave them their own site. Sadly, it didn't work out. C'est la vie. It explains why this happened, not with opinions, but with actual science.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Jun 22, 2016 at 15:26

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