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I was reviewing a question earlier today wherein the person who posted had a more-or-less hypothetical question and was very specific in what they wanted to learn. When the question started to receive some comments, the original poster's tone became agitated and confrontational.

Now, it seemed that some folks were missing the point of the question, as it was truly hypothetical and not intended to read from the sample data provided. However, I strongly felt that their tone could hurt their chances for impartial and useful answers. I see Stack Overflow as "a rising tide lifts all ships" community, and hammering on folks for being off-target does not support that goal.

So, I want to know: would it have been appropriate, useful, or helpful for me to have publicly commented to this person to tone it down and state why?

For reference, here's the question: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/37553834/access-axis-categories-inside-format-string-highcharts. See the comments on both the original post and the posted answer.

Thank you very much!

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    Bah he was a bit defensive, but I've seen worse. I'm more concerned with the ridiculous bold and weird "NOTE:" of the edits....
    – Patrice
    Commented Jun 2, 2016 at 12:21
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    @Sunshine just pruned that question ofbthe unecessary noise. This user needs to learn about the XY problem....
    – Patrice
    Commented Jun 2, 2016 at 12:27
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    'I want free help and I an going to tell you exactly what I think I want. If you deviate, or comment, or add anythng I don't want to see, I will complain'. Dump down and close vote, (pick 'too broad' or 'unclear', don't use a custom close reason to give an honest reason because of the 'be nice' rules ). Move on. Such users are not worth anything more. Engage with them, and they will flag you until you get suspended. Commented Jun 2, 2016 at 13:33
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    Aaaand my simple comment explaining how this should be done got pushed back and i got "attacked"... Lol. Why do i ALWAYS try once or twice a month, thinking it'll be different... Sigh...
    – Patrice
    Commented Jun 2, 2016 at 13:47
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    I would have downvoted that question just for 'I have searched the whole internet for solutions and found none'. I know that's not true because my server is down ATM and cannot be searched:) Commented Jun 2, 2016 at 14:30
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    @MartinJames No Google cache of your server? No Archive.org snapshot? Commented Jun 2, 2016 at 14:59
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    It is not inappropriate to caution a poster about tone, but there is a substantial risk that any person whom you think could benefit from such a warning will receive it poorly. Comments cautioning users about such matters tend to make things worse, not better. If a post or comment is so bad as to support an "abusive" flag, then flag it; otherwise, you're probably best off moving on and letting the user sabotage themselves. Commented Jun 2, 2016 at 15:08
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    I think it's easy to forget that many ESL posters don't have the same finesse with the English language and probably don't intend to come off quite so rude. That can apply as well to certain awkward and introverted native speakers.
    – shawnt00
    Commented Jun 2, 2016 at 15:15
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    It's been edited to be a bit ruder now
    – Steve
    Commented Jun 2, 2016 at 16:10
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    @Steve Well that escalated quickly. Commented Jun 2, 2016 at 16:25
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    I can't help but feel I may have exacerbated the situation there. But, unfortunately, it appears that the user in question is the Most Important Person in Existence(TM) and also wants to dictate how this site should work purely for their own benefit. They are clearly incapable of admitting their own deficiencies whilst also, apparently, needing our help. I hope it's due to immaturity, but suspect the worst. Commented Jun 2, 2016 at 16:40
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    Well, what a surprise, the OP exploded in a tirade of abuse. Good riddance. Commented Jun 2, 2016 at 16:57
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    The user has been suspended. Commented Jun 2, 2016 at 18:19
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    @brightmatrix, take a light touch. Use the THREE WORD RULE for social engineering. Just say something like "lighten up dude!" or "heh, cheer up" or "no need for swearing". And then leave it. It's only a stupid QA site on the internet. Try not to enlarge it, even slightly. Regarding the issue that idiots and non-experts vote up things that experts know is incorrect or ridiculous: it's part of the internet. If you can't handle it with a smile, do this: look at your feet. Make it so they're pointing in another direction. Keep going that way. Enjoy life.
    – Fattie
    Commented Jun 4, 2016 at 13:11

5 Answers 5

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hammering on folks for being off-target does not support that goal

This might be the most annoying aspect of asking a question on this site.

At the end of the day, it is the fault of the asker for not being clear enough in his question. However sometimes it feels like people go out of their way to misunderstand you. Then once the "ball of ignorance" starts rolling, a question can become unsalvageable. Here is what happens:

  1. User posts question

  2. Someone misunderstands, either through comment or answer

  3. Comment/answer gets upvoted

  4. Other similar comments/answers get added, following the original comment/answer misunderstanding of the question

  5. Likelihood of getting an actual answer decreases dramatically, as the question is no longer "unanswered", so many users wont even visit the question

Again, the onus is on the asker to present a (vividly) clear question, but this can be difficult if you dont know the Stack Overflow "game" and can produce rage mode in the asker.

So what is the solution here? ... How do we undo the train-wreck?

This is a good question from the comments, so I wanted to address it here. This is the strategy I use, it is certainly not foolproof:

  1. Ask question

  2. Watch question for at least 10 minutes

  3. Quickly (!) edit for clarity in response to any comments

  4. Flag those comments obsolete

  5. Comment on any bad answers informing of new edit

  6. Pray

  7. If bad comments/answers continue, delete question and repost if possible

As I said before, once the post starts going downhill, it is a sisyphean task to fix.

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    So...the solution would be to work with the commenters, trying to hammer out exactly where their confusion lies and edit your question to make it more clear, both for them and others in the future.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jun 2, 2016 at 15:00
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    @CodyGray I think it happens when people come into a question with assumptions about what it is going to be. Sometimes the title steers them wrong. Many times I think readers skim the question and miss important parts. I don't know if it's the primary cause but I agree that comments and answers can reinforce the misunderstanding.
    – shawnt00
    Commented Jun 2, 2016 at 15:41
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    An example I recently posted a question on another forum. (money.stackexchange.com/questions/64568/…) It's likely that nobody knows the answer, which is fine, but even from the limited number of comments I felt that people missed the point and started contributing opinions about credit management instead of answers to the questions. Stuff like this definitely makes me really hesitate to ask questions especially with my low rep over there.
    – shawnt00
    Commented Jun 2, 2016 at 15:50
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    I see you deleted the comment to which I was replying. Yes, you attempt to construct a process here in your answer. It relies on the assumption that people who post answers do not bother to read the question, they just read that other person's comment. Maybe that happens sometimes, but I very much disagree it is a common occurrence. It is far more common that people post answers without reading any of the comments. Most likely, in the situations you describe, multiple people independently come up with the same wrong understanding of your question. Which points to the problem's source...
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jun 2, 2016 at 15:57
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    @CodyGray I've done it myself. Just yesterday in my haste I posted an answer that was the result of mis-reading a question. Although I did nothing that was rude and my answer was even accepted, it was still easy to go down the wrong road despite quite a bit of experience on the site and the best of intentions. Btw when I said "many times" above I meant in the cases where there's misunderstanding.
    – shawnt00
    Commented Jun 2, 2016 at 16:13
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    So what is the solution here? Should some users be able to "unanswer-hammer" a question? The question is poorly phrased. People posting answers shouldn't have (In my opinion). How do we undo the train-wreck? Commented Jun 2, 2016 at 18:14
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    This is one of the issues which conflicts with the original ideals of stack overflow. Too many questions are so ultra specific that they don't help other users. Similarly, askers expect 100% customized support, so when an answer doesn't exactly address their problem in the way they asked it with exact conditions they specified, the answerer must be wrong and yelled at for wasting the time of the asker. Who cares about helping everyone with similar/same problems. Commented Jun 2, 2016 at 21:10
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    @psubsee2003 you mean the myriad of users who got so used to "if i google my question i can find my answer on stack" that they stopped the google step and just thought ALL their questions would be answered here. I always find it hilarious what makes the site great (making the answer generic for ppl who research)gives us the WORSE kind of users because they get entitled to help..... Stack is a victim of its success
    – Patrice
    Commented Jun 2, 2016 at 21:26
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    @Sierra Two things: I think you've missed what psubsee was meaning - my interpretation was that they were talking about more generic answers ("in situations like this I typically do blah blah blah" rather than "here's the code"), not incorrect ones (as a C++ answer might be to a C question). More, though, you say "rightfully pissed" if you got a jQuery answer to a JavaScript question - it's totally your right to get pissed, but if you mean "justifiably pissed" I think you have a misconception of what you're entitled to from other SO users.
    – Jeff
    Commented Jun 2, 2016 at 22:34
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    @Patrice yup. And because of that, it actually has become almost impossible to ask a generic question about how to accomplish a small task without someone asking "what have you tried" and "show you work". Commented Jun 2, 2016 at 22:56
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    @psubsee2003 yeah.... on one hand I want SO to get less crap and be more focused on high quality Qs... but at the same time, we got SO overly moderating that it gets stupid how quickly some good questions get shut down on technicalities (don't get me started on meta, where even if you're 100% right, someone will point out some pedantic point just to point it, even if it's irrelevant to the discussion)
    – Patrice
    Commented Jun 2, 2016 at 22:58
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    If a large number of the people looking at it can't understand the question, it's not a good question.
    – shoover
    Commented Jun 2, 2016 at 23:03
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    I have the exact same experience. As I got more advanced in several languages, it happens very often that people try to answer or close my question but they are not competent to do so, because they don't know that it's about. I even got my question closed by gold badge users (all reopened later) who were not capable of understanding the question properly - at least not without help from other commenters. Commented Jun 2, 2016 at 23:11
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    I'm not sure if this actually answers the question being posed - this answer looks at this from the standpoint of the OP and the question (as asked up above by this OP) is from the perspective of a neutral party wading into some tenseness between already involved parties....
    – Ajean
    Commented Jun 3, 2016 at 0:42
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    Upvote point for mixing "going downhill" and a Sisyphus reference. Actually for the whole thing - but that part was the best. ;-p
    – Rodger
    Commented Jun 4, 2016 at 9:04
35

Even though Sierra has already given a very nice answer, it is written from the perspective of the author of a post who is receiving frustrating comments and doesn't really address what to do if one is only writing comments or is a bystander. So, here's $0.02 on those scenarios from a moderator.

TL;DR Feel free to comment if you think it will be helpful, but use your judgment. If things are going off the rails, raise a flag or ping a moderator in chat to get our attention, and we can often get things back on track before they get worse. As one of my fellow moderators put it, often the best response is just to flag it and walk away. There are people who are used to dealing with those situations and have the tools to do so.

General Principle: Yes

Yes, it is appropriate to caution someone about their tone, but be careful! How you say it matters. Compare, for example, these:

  • Don't be such a jerk.

  • Lighten up, man.

  • Being a &$#@(@#$ isn't going to help you get an answer.

with something like this:

Welcome to the site! We want to help you, but it's a little hard to understand your question. Please add a Minimal, Complete, and Verifiable example so that we can understand what you need. No one is trying to attack you; we're just not sure yet what you want.

The first three examples are just picking a fight with an already-frustrated user. The fourth one at least has a chance of getting a reasonable response.

This Particular Scenario: No

In this case, being nice wouldn't have counted for a hill of beans. The user was a little snarky at first, posting comments like these (lightly edited, with some added formatting to highlight the relevant bits):

  • I know it is pointless what I am trying to do. But what I am doing in the example is irrelevant. It really is just an example. The question is simple: [remainder deleted]

  • Yeah... Obviously I know that...

  • I understand that but I don't think I have to say what is preventing me from using formatter (specially when it is kinda obvious I would know formatter given I know what is a format string), nor any other alternatives, or I might end up with a gigantic question. I think the original question (even the one without the notes) was already clear and simple enough. You probably should have posted a comment to my question, in the first place, asking why not use formatter, before posting an answer.

  • what part of "is it possible to access to the xAxis categories in the labels format string" you don't get? Is that question not clear enough???? And by your logic, you think I also should have said on my post that I cannot use another JS charts library as an alternative? Do you understand my point now?? Or should I make a f*****g [sic] drawing?

The first few were not very nice, but they didn't necessarily require any tone correction. Were they nice? No. Was asking the user to change tones likely to help? No.

Only the last comment was really inappropriate. But that one was so far over the line that flagging the comment as rude or offensive was the only meaningful option you had left. If someone receives an answer he or she doesn't like and flips out like this, a "watch your tone" comment is just spitting into the wind.

Why it Wouldn't Have Mattered Here

In fact, after that last comment got deleted but before anyone did anything else, the user posted this gem:

my last comment was censoured, apparently so I will say again: you didnt have to guess anything, you simply had to say yes, it is possible (and how), or no, it isnt (and tell why not). Understand now you stupid fu#$%ng moron? [Edited to mask profanity.]

The user then vandalized the actual question, turning it into a string of profanity, and got into a rollback war with yours truly. (For those without 10k access, the user managed to work 4 insults and 3 obscene words into a 7-word statement, which is pretty impressive.) I suspended the user, who then asked for the account to be deleted. I happily obliged.

The Big Picture

Sure, please try to help keep things civil. We really want everyone to "Be Nice." But realize that some people are not going to be nice, or even reasonable, or even sane. This is why we can't have nice things. So, use your judgment regarding whether a comment is worth the effort or is more likely to lead to someone losing their mind for no apparent reason.

Key takeaway: Don't feed the trolls. If you need someone to step in, raise a flag, ask a meta question, or ping a moderator in chat.

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  • I deeply appreciate you offering your thoughts and advice from a moderator's perspective, as well as giving examples from the (now deleted) original post for perspective. Thank you very much! Commented Jun 4, 2016 at 14:25
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    @brightmatrix sure! Glad to help out.
    – elixenide Mod
    Commented Jun 4, 2016 at 14:29
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    "[..] 4 insults and 3 obscene words into a 7-word statement." That must have been pure poetry. Commented Jul 2, 2016 at 12:41
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I had a similar issue a few weeks ago. A new user posted a question and became frustrated when the comments (which were obviously not answering the poorly worded question) started pushing the asker to accept solutions which did not make sense.

Each case will be different, but because I did not think the commentors were trying to troll and I could tell the user was new did not really know how to explain their issue, I posted the best answer I could, starting by restating the question I thought the poster was asking.

I was quickly greeted with a comment from one of the others, indicating that I was wrong and did not understand the question, but later the asker indicated that the information I provided was what they were looking for.

If there is offensive content, flag it. Otherwise, if you have time, work with the user (within reason of course) to help them explain their question. SO can be daunting to new users. I like it when we can help users get over this learning bump.

2

A lot of answer here, but thought I'd add my ten cents.

I used to comment to people whom I thought were being rude and this would usually result in one of two things.

  1. The person would apologise and calm down.

Or the most likely scenario

  1. A dispute would result between me and that person.

People on Stack Overflow offered me wise guidance to use flags if I saw comments getting out of hand or not being constructive and that is the best advice I can pass on.

As a general rule when emotions start on a curve to rise, people are not in the best frame of mind to take guidance, especially from a total stranger online.

The other issue, is if there is already a regular commenting on a post I stay quite, it can be overwhelming piling on comments and also there becomes more propensity for dispute among regulars. I will make a comment at a separate time to other comments, if it is warranted, i.e. on a closed question being edited or on a bounty question or any question I am not trying to answer.

This is not set in stone, just some guidelines I try to follow.

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  • Thank you very much for the wise words. I had considered flagging some of the comments in the original post, but they were a mix of vinegar/vitriol and somewhat informative responses, so it was hard to untangle them. You make a wise point about taking guidance from a stranger. Commented Jun 4, 2016 at 14:12
  • @brightmatrix thanks for the feedback, yes I've been in the same situation.
    – user3956566
    Commented Jun 4, 2016 at 16:05
-20

No. Obnoxious nerds arguing with you about what you "really" meant and hyperfocusing on a specific kind of technical answer, then getting even more obnoxious when you get notably frustrated with them is by far the worst thing about the site. The problem isn't the OP in this situation, it is the respondents being obnoxious by not answering the question with heed to the OP's request to focus on a specific thing they were trying to learn. If the OP's tone was the problem, then there wouldn't have been one after asking the question.

The correct thing to do is to tell people to knock it off with the kind of pedantry that is a huge distraction (such as: focusing on a sample data set when they asked people not to) or even delete their posts, and to answer the question that was asked.

Seriously, please think about it. On one hand, this site has a lot of noble ideals about educating people over jrust doing their homework for them, yet everybody loses their mind when someone asks questions to find out the underlying causes or logic behind something instead of asking them how to fit peg A in slot B. It's ridiculous. I just don't ask certain kinds of questions on Stack Overflow because dealing with people who won't answer your questions about fundamentals is emotionally exhausting, and being told that it's my fault people are being jerks to me is no small part of this exhaustion.

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    Just be aware that neither you nor I can actually see the question, as it's been deleted and we don't have 10k rep, so you're assuming quite a lot with this rant. From the comments above from folks who I know are reasonable it indicates that the OP, while probably justifiably frustrated, apparently crossed the line in terms of rudeness and abusiveness which is not acceptable no matter what the provocation.
    – Ajean
    Commented Jun 3, 2016 at 0:45
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    To add some perspective to what both Ajean and Anna have posted here: the poster of the question in question (so to speak) was very specific in their needs and request, which is fine. Where it crossed the line (in my mind), and where it fueled my question, was the poster's terse and borderline nasty responses to (what I felt were) honest comments asking for some clarification. It wasn't a back-and-forth where the poster become increasingly frustrated over a period of time; they got hot very quickly. I felt their tone was not going to lead them to a helpful resolution, hence my question here. Commented Jun 3, 2016 at 1:12
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    Also, this wasn't a single terse response from the poster; it was several sharply pointed replies to about three to four separate comments. I was hesitant to step into the fray without learning more about how things work on SO etiquette-wise. Commented Jun 3, 2016 at 1:16
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    I think this answer is right in parts. There are instances of even high-rep users getting frustrated, and thus making an excessively snarky remark. New users should, as much as possible, try to weather these with good humour, ignore them, and/or flag them. However part of this answer is also wrong, and speaks to a core problem experienced users have with this site - that volunteers might so readily be labelled "obnoxious", "nerds", "jerks" and "ridiculous" is part of the entitlement culture of some new users that we need to educate against.
    – halfer
    Commented Jun 3, 2016 at 10:34
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    Ultimately, aside from a small number of answerers who are paid to help here, new users need to keep it firmly in mind that most of us are volunteers. Not only that but many of us wade through low-quality questions every day, trimming, pruning, commenting, and answering if we can. It is an arduous task, and every couple of weeks we get another Meta post about how to improve the woeful state of the bulk of new questions.
    – halfer
    Commented Jun 3, 2016 at 10:40
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    Yeah anna, you're 100% right. I was an obnoxious nerd, telling the user "btw, if your example is irrelevant to your question, it doesn't belong in it. And i would suggest removing all the bold as right now it is everywhere". That is DEFINITELY a ridiculous comment and i deserved to get replied with "you should learn to write"..... Right? Seriously Anna. You may be right (at times) that stack is rough. But your answer here makes you feel like a user who believes we are there to serve THEM. And it isn't the way stack decided to help coders.... (on a serious note: don't speak if you don't know)
    – Patrice
    Commented Jun 3, 2016 at 11:37
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    What we don't like is "i can't use slot A for peg A BECAUSE REASONS AND YOU CAN'T ASK ME WHY!". Give a proper justification. You said yourself, we're here to educate and not just answer your homework. If your new code was open to SQL injections attack , isn't it better that we ask "why can't you use any of the known methods to prevent them,then expose a vulnerability (and remember... That vulnerability is not just exposed to YOU, who knows the context, but to anyone who sees your question and may want to use the answer. We're doing these users a disservice by not telling you "don't do that".
    – Patrice
    Commented Jun 3, 2016 at 11:43
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    @Patrice some posters think that 'freelancer' means that people work for free:( Commented Jun 3, 2016 at 14:55
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    @halfer That they're volunteers has nothing to do with it. Being a volunteer doesn't absolve you of responsibility, nor should it protect you from being criticised for your actions if they're genuinely doing nothing but harm. The people who picket soldiers' funerals with "God Hates Fags" signs are volunteers, but that doesn't mean that people who criticise their activism are showing a sense of "entitlement" by complaining. Defend behaviours that are useful, attack those that aren't, but let's leave questions about how sympathetic we should be to users as human beings out of it.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Jun 3, 2016 at 17:17
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    @Mark: I agree with the points that you make regarding volunteers and funeral-picketing, but I am not sure how much this works as a parallel to the question at hand. Brand new users are welcome to jump straight in and complain about how they are treated, and sometimes they're right (as evidenced by how often "be nice" and related themes re-surface).
    – halfer
    Commented Jun 3, 2016 at 17:29
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    (continued) However that doesn't mean that a counter-reaction from established users is necessarily wrong: sometimes the brand new user really is suffering a sense of entitlement, and the appalling question vandalism in this particular case IMO lends weight to that interpretation. Thus, I think that we're volunteers isn't irrelevant, since the help we do give is given because we believe in the project, and because we want to try to help. If we experience rudeness then we're right not to tolerate it.
    – halfer
    Commented Jun 3, 2016 at 17:29
  • @Patrice I've been on both sides of that and while I agree it can be frustrating to have to work around others' limitations sometimes it's just a complicated situation or one that requires divulging more than is safe or appropriate to get an answer to the question. while sometimes it's helpful to press for more details on why the most common method doesn't work, it's also very often just an exhausting retread of past failed attempts that have no additional relevancy to the answer.
    – Anna
    Commented Jun 6, 2016 at 18:19

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