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I flagged this answer as "Not an answer" because it seems to be asking the user to verify some information, which I understand is more appropriately done in a comment.

(The answer is now deleted. Below it is reproduced in its entirety.)

Check if the IssueID is a String datatype.

However, my flag was rejected for the reason, "flags should not be used to indicate technical inaccuracies, or an altogether wrong answer."

Which wasn't my intent. I didn't see this as an inaccurate answer, I saw it as request for clarification, and not an answer at all.

Does anybody see in what way this could be seen as an answer, so I can look for it more carefully in the future?

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  • 85
    Check if the IssueID is a String datatype. Heh. You got hit by the NAA curse. That is an answer because it can be reinterpreted as IssueID should be a string, it is not, and that's the cause of your problem. Commented Mar 1, 2016 at 16:46
  • 2
    In this case the answer to "Is IssueID a String datatype?" is irrelevant anyway to the question asked so I've voted to delete. Even if the answer is "no" and they change things so it becomes "yes" it won't resolve the issue with CONTAINS. Commented Mar 1, 2016 at 18:31
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    Rather than a question, it is a suggestion. Therefore, it IS an answer. Commented Mar 1, 2016 at 21:05
  • 40
    Just don't use the NAA flag. Declines of NAA make up a very large portion of false positives (or, more charitably, misunderstandings between the community and mods), but if you ever ask on Meta you'll get told that literally everything is an answer. For example, the phrase "Purple fairies Purple fairies Purple fairies" repeated 6000 times might be the answer to, "What does 'Purple fairies' repeated 6000 times look like all written out?" Commented Mar 1, 2016 at 21:06
  • 15
    "persistently literalistic asininity" as Josh Caswell brilliantly put it Commented Mar 1, 2016 at 21:08
  • 7
    @Two-BitAlchemist: Your viewpoint is a bit... cynical, and basically wrong. For a more reasoned opinion, see here.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Mar 1, 2016 at 21:13
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    @RobertHarvey No reasonable person would interpret return [inline picture of Milla Jovovich] as an answer to anything but go look at the post I linked and marvel at all the people advocating just that. Commented Mar 1, 2016 at 21:21
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    @RobertHarvey I assumed so. It doesn't matter to me if it's a mod action or not. My original comment is about confusion stemming from NAA flags being declined, and the distance between expressed policy and actual policy (as measured by declined flags and resolutions to Meta posts). To me, the system is badly designed (as evidenced by the frequency of this type of Meta complaint) and you seem to be blaming the users. Commented Mar 1, 2016 at 21:30
  • 19
    @RobertHarvey, I might be misunderstanding the context here, but that sounds pretty wacky to me: "The problem is with the users, not the design." I guess you'd better design some new users then?
    – user201891
    Commented Mar 1, 2016 at 21:34
  • 9
    @DavidS: Look at this post (or for that matter, any random selection of "fix my broken code" questions on the front page of SO), and tell me with a straight face that there isn't something wrong with our users.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Mar 1, 2016 at 21:36
  • 17
    @RobertHarvey We must be an awfully stupid community of users. We just can't understand or stop arguing about the "clear and unambiguous rules" that have been explained to us to death. What a shoddy lot we are! Commented Mar 1, 2016 at 21:36
  • 7
    I agree with you @JoshCaswell. I take issue with the NAA rules being called "clear and unambiguous" and the denial of the fact that this happens way too often on Meta for there not to be a problem. Commented Mar 1, 2016 at 21:42
  • 4
    @Two-BitAlchemist: It would be a net gain if we just did away with the NAA flag and forced people to explain themselves in a custom flag.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Mar 1, 2016 at 21:43
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    Ok, so just to be sure I understand... ANY request for clarification from the user could be posted as an answer, if the response to the Question-posted-as-answer could in any way lead the OP to a solution. Yes? I could go back and change about 90% of my comments to answers if that's the case. This would include "Have you tried Google?" comments too, perforce. Commented Mar 1, 2016 at 21:51
  • 6
    @TabAlleman no, "Have you tried to Google?" should always be, at best, a comment (or deleted outright). No matter what question it's posted on, it provides no useful content to any visitor looking for an answer. The standard you should be applying before NAA flagging is: without reading the question, and without having any technical knowledge about the technology involved in the answer beyond basic language-agnostic coding skills, could a mod identify with sureness that the answer definitely does not contain the insight that could solve the question for the asker or a future visitor?
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Mar 1, 2016 at 22:30

4 Answers 4

47

Times, they do change. A few years ago, I received the following advice from Oded (before he was a mod/SE employee):

enter image description here

Perhaps the general understanding of what constitutes an answer has changed. Or perhaps Shog's response isn't as authoritative as it sounds. :)

In any case, I would tend to agree with Oded's comments to me from a few years ago, but I would also recommend you follow Shog's advice and not flag such an answer. If it's sitting in a gray zone and you don't have the moderation privileges necessary to take care of it on your own then just use your downvote privileges and let users with more advanced moderation capabilities decide what to do with it.

How do I properly use the “Not an Answer” flag?

To identify attempts by community members to use answers for any purpose other than answering questions.

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    Note that this was from before Oded was a Stack Exchange employee, and they were not an elected moderator. This was their opinion at the time, as a normal user. I wouldn't use that as representative of the opinions of moderators or Stack Exchange employees at the time.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Mar 1, 2016 at 23:03
  • 10
    As Brad notes, there's a difference between someone saying "this is an unhelpful answer" and a mod saying "this is not an answer". You had the luxury of deleting your own unhelpful answer... Things have indeed changed.
    – Shog9
    Commented Mar 1, 2016 at 23:06
  • Well maybe it should've been noted that it was just his opinion, If I just read it as it is without the context you gave me I would assume it was a rule of thumb @BradLarson I guess the diamond is a perk and somewhat of a little tiny bit of a curse :)
    – Just Do It
    Commented Mar 1, 2016 at 23:09
  • 1
    @brad Thanks... Updated post. Want to keep things accurate and in perspective.
    – JDB
    Commented Mar 1, 2016 at 23:25
  • Ah well you've hit on part of the thing. I don't have the ability to vote to delete, so for me, flagging is my only way of saying "hey mods, I think this answer should be a comment; what do you think?" So I allow myself a lot of flexibility in choosing the reason for the flag. I guess I could just always use the "In need of moderator intervention" flag in the grey areas. Commented Mar 2, 2016 at 13:16
  • @TabAlleman - All I'm saying is that if the flag isn't a perfect fit, then don't use that flag. Your dedication to the site's quality is commendable, but there are likely enough other users with more advanced moderation abilities that will take care of it. Reserve your flags for more obvious issues, otherwise you'll drown out flags that are in more "dire" need of attention. And don't flag mods for issues that can be handled by community moderators, unless the issue is really, really severe (like abusive content, etc).
    – JDB
    Commented Mar 2, 2016 at 16:06
  • 1
    "If it's sitting in a gray zone and you don't have the moderation privileges necessary to take care of it on your own then just use your downvote privileges and let users with more advanced moderation capabilities decide what to do with it." That defeats the purpose of flags in the first place, which is to get the attention of those who can do something. If the mods are actually going through every question, they're making flags pointless. The whole point of a flagging system is to outsource detection of problems to the users. And they may have false positives.
    – trlkly
    Commented Mar 3, 2016 at 12:30
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    @trlkly That's true, but Gray zone issues are, by definition, minor problems. It's like the edit queue... a high rep user can fix a minor grammatical mistake. But if a low-rep user suggested such an edit, it would likely be rejected. Not because it's wrong, but because it's too minor for the edit queue. I think the same principle applies here.
    – JDB
    Commented Mar 3, 2016 at 12:46
  • I thought one don't lose bagdes once earned (meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/261258/…), @JDB has more badges on the screenshot than now, how is it possible ? It's off topic but i couldn't resist.
    – issathink
    Commented Mar 4, 2016 at 15:19
  • @issathink - Because Meta badges and main site badges are different. Check your Meta profile versus your main site profile.
    – JDB
    Commented Mar 4, 2016 at 15:22
45

It's not a question; it's an instruction.

The author (presumably) doesn't care about the result of that check, however the asker may find that - once checked - his problem is solved.

This makes it an answer.

Two days later...

Amid all the debate over a lousy flag on a lousy answer, no one has yet seen fit to post an answer explaining to the asker there what his error message means and why his solution won't work.

You can't have a high signal/noise ratio by just removing as much noise as possible; you also need some signal. If you're reading this and you know SQL well enough to recognize why the answer being discussed was wrong, then there's still an opportunity to provide something useful; if that doesn't happen, all of this discussion was pointless.

So in the meantime, I'm undeleting this answer, because I strongly suspect that the comment on it explaining why it is wrong is more informational than any of the other answers on that question right now.

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    A low quality one? Maybe?
    – Just Do It
    Commented Mar 1, 2016 at 16:51
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    @Tab, a VLQ flag could very well be declined too. That answer does not exhibit severe formatting or content problems. Commented Mar 1, 2016 at 16:53
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    @JustDoIt Do you really think that phrasing an instruction as a rhetorical question makes that post low quality? Is that grammatical difference really a severe inhibitor to you understanding that answer?
    – Servy
    Commented Mar 1, 2016 at 16:56
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    @TabAlleman The post very clearly does not meet the definition of either of those flags. It's not really a matter of opinion. Flagging something that you know shouldn't be flagged is just going to result in you getting flag banned. If you think an answer isn't a good answer, then you can downvote it. You don't flag answers because you don't think they're good answers.
    – Servy
    Commented Mar 1, 2016 at 16:57
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    @Servy I do, since I see the purpose of SO being to create a repository of information in Q&A format, and a rhetorical question isn't an answer to a beginner who doesn't know what should logically follow from the rhetorical answer. Rhetorical questions are great for comments, though. Commented Mar 1, 2016 at 16:58
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    @TabAlleman It is an answer. You don't need to be an experienced programmer to understand a rhetorical question, or what it's encouraging you to do. You need a basic understanding of English, but that has nothing to do with your skill at programming.
    – Servy
    Commented Mar 1, 2016 at 17:00
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    I understand the answer, I haven't even had said issue. So I'm not thinking about the answer's usefulness for me, I'm thinking about it's usage for future users, I think of the user who is inexperienced with SQL who might not get it the first time he/she reads this answer, I think of how the lack of explanation as to why you have to check this might not provide an answer to these new and/or inexperienced users. @Servy
    – Just Do It
    Commented Mar 1, 2016 at 17:05
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    @JustDoIt If you think the post isn't sufficiently well explained, then you can downvote. A lack of explanation is in no way justification for deletion, it doesn't make the post "not an answer", nor does that make it "very low quality".
    – Servy
    Commented Mar 1, 2016 at 17:06
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    Uh, no. This isn't about whether the answer is right or wrong, helpful or not... This boils down to, "does this response attempt to answer the question?" - if yes, it is an answer, leave it be.
    – Shog9
    Commented Mar 1, 2016 at 18:34
  • 5
    Except according to most Meta discussion on this topic it actually boils down to "does this response attempt to answer a question?" meaning any question, off-topic or not, even one that was not asked by the post that led to this answer. Commented Mar 1, 2016 at 21:11
  • 9
    In my opinion, in order for your explanation of what makes it an answer to be valid, the answer needs to go into detail about why such a check is expected to be helpful. Without that, it makes the difference between being a fine comment and a bad answer.
    – mah
    Commented Mar 1, 2016 at 21:23
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    Honestly guys, there are a lot of worse, garbage posts out there to spend 100 flags, 3 times a days if you could. Posts like "Me too!", "Thanks!", etc. Why do you like to split hairs on discussing corner cases like those one? Keep the garbage priority: flag those one instead that slip through the net. It'll be more helpful that discussing endlessly the color of the apple.
    – Tunaki
    Commented Mar 1, 2016 at 21:29
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    Stop trying to extract broad rules from edge cases, @rob. If we wanted to delete every answer that contained a question mark, we wouldn't need flaggers with human intelligence. If you can't be bothered to read the posts you're flagging, then you might as well be a regex.
    – Shog9
    Commented Mar 1, 2016 at 23:09
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    I question why we are tearing ourselves apart and argue specifics all day long about wether or not this answer is exceptionally bad or just bad. Why not have a simple "Obviously garbage" flag instead of the concurrent karfuffle we have right now. And the fact that there is no very clear rule for edge cases is the primary source of alot of people's frustrations and why so many people refrain from flagging NAAs alltogether.
    – Magisch
    Commented Mar 2, 2016 at 12:03
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    We do have that. It's called a "downvote" and more people should use it @Magisch. There's also "Very Low Quality" but that's reserved for posts that are actually garbage and not just victims of flagger hyperbole.
    – Shog9
    Commented Mar 2, 2016 at 20:09
2

I think the gist here is that if it can be even slightly be considered an answer, it's an answer, at least for the purposes of the NAA flag. The idea is that there should be a low barrier to entry for answers. Ultimately, the goal (though we often, as a community, seem to forget) is to help people. You may not think that the answer is particularly helpful, but if that's the case, you already have the recourse available to you of downvoting. Allowing it to continue to exist hurts no one, and if it gathers enough downvotes, it will either naturally be buried or the user will opt to delete it themselves.

The only eventualities that may result from flagging as NAA are 1) the answer is removed, potentially removing something helpful to someone or 2) the flag is rejected, which harms no one but perhaps the individual that over-judiciously used the flag. A mod will almost always err on the side of leaving potentially useful information around.

Also, FWIW, this isn't pseudo-Jeopardy, where your answer must be in the form of an answer. Sometimes, an answer might be presented as an interrogative. That doesn't negate the fact that it answers the question, though.

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    "Sometimes, an answer might be presented as an interrogative." - Furthermore sometimes that might even be a better answer as it encourages the original poster to think.
    – Erik I
    Commented Mar 4, 2016 at 8:20
  • 2
    The answer must perhaps not be in the form of an answer, but it must contain the answer to the question. If it does not, it is useless, should get down voted and possibly also deleted.
    – Lundin
    Commented Mar 4, 2016 at 15:08
-7

You are barking up the wrong tree.

To spell it out: If destroying meaningful content because it is sub-optimally phrased is valued higher [0] than producing the same content in a better way or even fixing it then I guess we are going downhill.

[0]: see @Shog9's comment where he points out that no other answers were provided at the time

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    You're exhibiting a fallacy here, one I'd call "infinite economic flexibility". Just because someone can spot a non-answer doesn't mean they can necessarily provide their own good answer. Telling people to stop moderating because they aren't answering better than the posts they're moderating is foolishly perfectionist. Take what people can offer and be grateful if it's useful, or correct them if it's not; don't tell them to go away and stop trying that until they do what you want them to do first, unless you're getting flooded with too many errors to correct. Commented Mar 4, 2016 at 8:41
  • 1
    "Just because someone can spot a non-answer doesn't mean they can necessarily provide their own good answer." - well problem is sometimes people /can't/ spot a non-answer but still SO somehow incentivizes trying to delete it.
    – Erik I
    Commented Mar 4, 2016 at 11:05
  • Turning it around: just keeping all crap on the site because hidden somewhere in it might be something that might be of some value to someone in the future brings us on the downward slope the site's been on for years. It's quality that matters, and if you can't post a proper answer, then refrain from answering altogether.
    – CodeCaster
    Commented Mar 4, 2016 at 11:16
  • 1
    Again, the problem in this case was the the answer seems to have been a proper answer and still someone makes a point - here on meta - of their efforts to delete it. Maybe I'm biased because I don't see all the stuff that is moderated away, but what I do see is again and again good questions and answers moderated by overzealous people.
    – Erik I
    Commented Mar 4, 2016 at 11:44
  • 2
    Sure, you may want to see the beauty in the literal answer "Check if the IssueID is a String datatype", but are you really convinced that it is a good answer that is worth keeping on the site? We're not playing charades here, every answer should be self-sufficient to solve the problem, and preferably contain some explanation. The answer should be improved by explaining what is the problem with the data type being not a string, and so on.
    – CodeCaster
    Commented Mar 4, 2016 at 12:28
  • I for one value A WORKING ANSWER over NOTHING. If you want to remove the only answer that might possible work without even being in a position to make a better one then I really hope you reconsider. After all this is a site for answers to questions, not a site for PERFECT or nothing. Of course if a better answer arrives, by all means upvote that and downvote the previous one. It is just this mad ISIS style deletionism, -"we don't totally agree so blow it up" that irks me.
    – Erik I
    Commented Mar 4, 2016 at 18:46

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