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We recently had a question on the use of the offensive flag. This isn't the first time this has happened:

In what cases can the "offensive" flag be used?

Is "bigotry of any kind" really not tolerated? Who defines which are those "kinds"?

The consensus on Meta is that, since the offensive flag carries a -100 point penalty, it should only be used for very bad instances and that if the offensive text can be edited out, that should be done instead of flagging the post.

The confusion occurs because this is not reflected in the Help Center:

Don't be a jerk. These are just a few examples. If you see them, flag them*:

  1. Name-calling. Focus on the post, not the person. That includes terms that feel personal even when they're applied to posts (like "lazy", "ignorant", or "whiny").
  2. Bigotry of any kind. Language likely to offend or alienate individuals or groups based on race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, etc. will not be tolerated. At all. (Those are just a few examples; when in doubt, just don't.)
  3. Inappropriate language or attention. Avoid vulgar terms and anything sexually suggestive. Also, this is not a dating site.
  4. Harassment and bullying. If you see a hostile interaction, flag it. If it keeps up, disengage — we'll handle it. If something needs staff attention, you can use the contact us link at the bottom of every page.

*Changed emphasis is mine.

Most folks are used to this sort of thing being handled solely by moderators and in fact many sites discourage regular users from taking any direct action in these instances. Users may think that the instruction to "flag them" actually means "only flag them" and that they aren't supposed to edit offensive posts.

Furthermore, whenever someone asks why their offensive flag was disputed or declined, the discussion always devolves into an argument over whether the item in question was offensive in the first place. This is unhelpful at best.

The Help Center text should be changed to reflect what the community actually wants to happen:

Don't be a jerk. These are just a few examples. If you see them in an otherwise good question or answer, edit them out of the post.

If the post can't be fixed with edits, if the OP keeps adding the offensive content back in, or the offensive text is in a comment, flag it:

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  • "since the offensive flag carries a -100 point penalty, it should only be used for very bad instances" -- so if something is abuse, but not very abusive, then it should not be flagged? And the target of the abuse should just accept it? Seems to me, the resolution or policy here should be based on what kind of behavior is OK on SO, and not based on points. If the target of the abuse stops engaging with SO as a result, then SO is enabling the abuser, and losing a user.
    – johny why
    Commented Feb 18, 2016 at 9:13
  • You're saying "we only have one penalty in our toolbox, and it's severe, so we don't want to use it." Ok, you need more penalty options. Your current policy enables people who are a little abusive to keep doing it.
    – johny why
    Commented Feb 18, 2016 at 9:22
  • About editing abuse-- seems that also enables abusers to keep doing it, because it will just get removed later. That addresses the issue of "we don't want abusive content on the the site", but it does not address the issue of somebody just got victimized, and we don't care about them-- we only care about future readers seeing it. As long as future readers don't have to see, go ahead-- abuse away! The victim cannot just "edit out" of their mind the abuse they experienced.
    – johny why
    Commented Feb 18, 2016 at 9:23
  • "If it keeps up, disengage" --translation, if you're being abused, stop coming to SO. Again empowering abusers, rather than protecting users.
    – johny why
    Commented Feb 18, 2016 at 9:26
  • @johnywhy: FWIW, the large majority of offensive language I've seen has not been targeted at anyone in particular. In fact, out of 100+ offensive flags on the network I've raised, I'm struggling to remember any that were targeted that way. In such cases, there is no primary victim to protect. Commented Feb 18, 2016 at 17:55

1 Answer 1

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I spent a bit of time looking at these changes and after a discussion internally, we're not making this change for several reasons.

The Be Nice policy is for all users to follow and yet only a fraction of users have direct edit permissions. In the cases where a user doesn't have edit privileges, they would need to suggest an edit to the post, have it go to the review queue, and wait for it to be approved. While that's not necessarily a bad thing, flagging is much easier for many users especially if they are unsure of editing.

The biggest problem with these flags is the decline of them. Users get upset when they've flagged something they find offensive and the flag gets declined. But moderators don't want to penalize users with the whopper of the -100 rep hit for an offensive flag, especially if something can be edited. For reference, the moderator options to process the flags are limited to helpful, declined, or dismissed (which involves a bit more work).

Instead of altering the Be Nice policy, I'm going to look at other possible solutions, including potential new ways to offer guidance to users flagging.

What if we were able to check if a user had edit privileges when they selected a rude/abusive flag type and we offered guidance that included something similar to what you had above?

The workflow could be:

  1. User sees something rude or abusive
  2. Select Flag on the post
  3. User chooses Rude or Abusive
  4. Maybe we check user privileges

    • if rep >= 2k, then they'd see "Hey, you've got permission to edit this, can this post be saved via an edit? If so, edit it?"
    • if rep < 2k, they'd get the flag option

This is, of course, rough and needs to be fleshed out a bit more, but I'm thinking that if we can offer better guidance via the flag dialog, then it would minimize some of the confusion about these posts.

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  • 2
    This is very reasonable. The fact that most people can only suggest edits is a good point.
    – BSMP
    Commented Feb 17, 2016 at 20:36
  • 4
    @BSMP I'll admit, I really liked your original suggestion. It wasn't until I discussed it with some other people that they pointed out a few of the issues. If we can educate users on when to edit or flag, then overall that'd be better for these cases.
    – Taryn StaffMod
    Commented Feb 17, 2016 at 20:38
  • 2
    I think just-in-time help will be more effective than editing the policy statement in the help center, anyway. Commented Feb 17, 2016 at 22:29

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