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For me, SO moderators and also some users are a little bit special. In this case I want to understand and in the same step get rid of my idea:

I answered this post. It was upvoted and also accepted as answer. But days later a moderator deleted my answer. I don't know why. I have only a link to the help center. I would like to understand why this post was deleted and unmarked as answer by the moderator. Why couldn't you implement a function that such actions have to be commented, so that the user can understand it in order to be able to correct the answer or stop this for the future?

enter image description here

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  • 15
    I dont know why either. I can't gauge the correctness but moderators shouldn't be unilaterally deleting answers based on that anyway. Commented Oct 3, 2015 at 16:01
  • 14
    Definitely shouldn't have been deleted. That said mods are humans, humans make mistakes now and again.
    – Kev
    Commented Oct 3, 2015 at 17:12
  • 6
    Two different moderators were involved in deleting answers to that question, within about a week of each other. Maybe there's a bigger story here that we're missing?
    – user456814
    Commented Oct 3, 2015 at 17:57
  • 6
    I'd say it looks more like a comment than an actual answer. It doesn't propose a solution, but rather the start of an idea for a solution. That said, incomplete answers are allowed on Stack Overflow.
    – user4639281
    Commented Oct 3, 2015 at 18:11
  • 2
    I can imagine a few reasons the answer might be deleted, but none for why a diamond would need to do so. I'm puzzled. Commented Oct 3, 2015 at 19:30
  • 5
    Do you have any idea what amount of work the moderators do? Expecting them to hand-hold for every post they deal with with a personalized message to the poster is simply not a feasible suggestion. They already have a high workload. From the look of your post, I'd suspect it was a reaction to a flag of some sort; the other deleted answer there certainly was, and yours wasn't of much better quality.
    – Ken White
    Commented Oct 4, 2015 at 1:33
  • 10
    I hardly think requiring a few words specifying a delete reason would be an odious amount of work. The main work is thinking about it. A dropdown could handle the most common reasons making it even easier.
    – Mike Wise
    Commented Oct 4, 2015 at 5:56
  • 6
    @KenWhite Yep, the post was flagged "not an answer" and the deletion was in response to that flag. And yeah, in actions arising from flag handling, it's not customary to write comments explaining the action (though I have done so on occasion).
    – C. K. Young Staff
    Commented Oct 4, 2015 at 6:11
  • 2
    @Cupcake: The only explanation I can think of was that the flag on this answer remained in limbo. At the peak of the last 7 days our queue count peaked at some 1700, with NAAs making up at least a quarter of them. The only explanation I can give for the flag entering limbo is simple: it was disputed. Rightfully so. I don't know why George deleted this answer. Maybe because the last paragraph was truncated in the flag queue.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Oct 4, 2015 at 6:12
  • 3
    @MikeWise: Great. Require those few words over a few hundred posts and see if you think it's an odious amount of work. You (like the poster here) seem to lack a comprehension of the volume of posts at SO, and a lack of understanding of the amount of flags that are generated here. Perhaps some time spent in the review queues might be beneficial (if you have the ability to do so).
    – Ken White
    Commented Oct 4, 2015 at 6:25
  • 10
    I do and when I reject an edit I am required to give a reason, with the most common reasons being listed in a popup. Since deleting a post seems far more drastic than rejecting an edit, and less common, I don't understand the inconsistentcy.
    – Mike Wise
    Commented Oct 4, 2015 at 6:28
  • 3
    @Mike Wise: The vast majority of deletion reasons is covered in the help center link that you see in the screenshot, so we really don't need to be specifying a deletion reason every time. If there is a special reason an answer needs to be deleted, which is often the case for custom-flagged answers, we will generally comment on the answer before deleting if there isn't one already, e.g. if an answer was stolen from somewhere.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Oct 4, 2015 at 9:15
  • 8
    @boltclock's comments are correct. As to why users don't get any feedback when posts are deleted; I believe there's a push for pro forma comments to be added to the post when it's deleted as a result of a moderator flag. That would be nice, as well as a link to the state the post was in when it was flagged.
    – George Stocker Mod
    Commented Oct 4, 2015 at 12:25
  • 4
    The post is now undeleted. Commented Oct 4, 2015 at 12:54
  • 11
    I understand that letting moderators state reasons every time they delete something might be to much work. But when a post is deleted because of a flag, why not let the OP know what kind of flag it was? That shouldn't require any manual work at all.
    – Anders
    Commented Oct 4, 2015 at 21:19

4 Answers 4

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First off, I'm sorry that post was deleted. In its form at the time of deletion it should not have been deleted.

A few things happened:

  1. The post was flagged as 'not an answer', due to its original revision:

original revision of flagged post

  1. while in the moderator queue, it was edited to the way you see it in revision #2: enter image description here

  2. When a post is flagged in the moderator queue, we generally don't see all of it; it only shows the first few sentences (we have to click the 'down' arrow to see all of it, and the entire queue gets messed up after. I wish they'd fix that).

  3. Because of 1-3; I accepted the flag and deleted the post. This was part of a larger cleanup effort; and my error rate is not 0%.

There is a push to include the 'pro forma' reason a post was deleted "this post was deleted because it was flagged as 'not an answer'"; I think that'd be useful to include on posts when they're deleted as a result of a moderator deletion vote and they're in the flag queue for a specific reason.

As far as asking moderators to comment on every post they take action on (or delete); I don't think we'd ever delete posts if we had to do that. That's a lot of typing for little to no benefit -- especially for something that should be automated.

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    Regarding 3): Did I read correctly that moderators routinely look at only the first few sentences of a post before making the delete decision, due to a UI bug? I know there are a lot of flagged answers but this should really be fixed. Not even looking at the entire post before deleting it is a bit disrespectful to answerers (as is posting low-quality answers of course). The SO UI really should not encourage that.
    – jmiserez
    Commented Oct 5, 2015 at 23:08
  • 1
    @jmiserez make it a feature request; we generally will expand if there's any doubt, but most NAA posts are easy to spot without doing that.
    – George Stocker Mod
    Commented Oct 5, 2015 at 23:53
  • @jmiserez: I'd say it's a limitation, not a "bug" per se. Can you imagine, e.g. the question list displaying every question with its full text, and setting its per-page limit to 50? Now imagine the same thing but having to plough through several hundred of these, every day. Anyway, there is supposed to be a revamp of the mod UI but I have no idea when that is coming.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Oct 6, 2015 at 4:13
  • @jmiserez: Though, every flagged post does have an expander control to reveal its full text easily. You can be sure I'll be using that more often.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Oct 6, 2015 at 4:19
14

Stack Overflow heavily uses gamification and similar techniques to make contributors happy to contribute. I believe that the system doesn't automatically warns the users that something was deleted to avoid to upset them or to avoid the need to handle the amount of complaints that comes with this.

However, if the close/delete comes with a nice and good explanation, it is easier for the user to accept, understand and improve.

So, the lack of warns and explanations doesn't help to keep the quality high. If the user is not warned that his post was deleted and, more important, doesn't know why, it'll not learn with the mistakes and may keep posting crap until ban.

Regarding your post example, it is clear that was mistakenly deleted. It is already undeleted now.

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    Sometimes, it is easier to accept for some users when an individual explanation is given. Though the danger there is focusing on the text of the part explained just there, both for those honestly trying (but I handled all the criticism given, why still closed/deleted?), and those who mostly take offense at the criticism (best defense is a good offense), but might have tried to correct things if not confronted that way. Yes, all those groups exist. Also, how much do you want to customize the message, and with what information? Be aware that people will have to add that information. Commented Oct 4, 2015 at 14:31
  • 1
    Also, a notification is generally a "call to action". What should be done if a months-old post gets killed, and there's no way to salvage it with reasonable effort (meaning less effort than neccessary for contributing something acceptable from scratch)? Commented Oct 4, 2015 at 14:33
  • It's a trade-off. We have the "moderator time" and "post quality" variables. We can't have both high. If you spend more moderator time with feedbacks, you will raise the future posts quality, but you can't raise the future posts quality without spending moderator time now. So, trying to answer your questions, I understand that warning/explaining is costly and sometimes meaningless, but is a trade-off that we have to choose how to adjust our variables for each type. For example, roomba-deletion clearly should not generate warns.
    – Zanon
    Commented Oct 4, 2015 at 14:48
  • 1
    Well, all moderator-time (and community-time) is currently over-committed (I don't know by which factor), so the trade-off is different: It's not committing more time now to relax later, but completely ignoring part of the problem to focus on the rest, which just means we'll sink that much faster in crap not handled at all. Also, the moderators plus the community-members helping moderate are the answerers, so answer-rate would plummet too... Commented Oct 4, 2015 at 15:03
  • 1
    As a diamond on another site, I can promise you sometimes it is really hard to put to words what is wrong with a post that's about to get deleted. You also have to balance the likelihood that this person is ever going to even read what you write. It's not ideal, but there's only so much time.
    – corsiKa
    Commented Oct 5, 2015 at 23:20
-1

It is deeply troubling to see moderator powers misused in this way. If I were a new user, and my content deleted without advance warning, clear reason, and no clear way of appeal, I would not have stuck around to learn that such mistakes are rare.

Every deletion in response to a flag should notify the author of the flagged content, with a reasonably specific reason given. If the flag says "not an answer", why does the notification not convey this? This would not increase the workload of moderators, but will handle edge cases much more gracefully.

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    Calling a honest mistake, and there's no reason to call it anything else, and at the scale they are working eliminating those is virtually impossible, misuse is really a bit strong, and unfair to our moderators (at least you aren't saying abuse). And if every deletion (why not also closure, undeletion, and reopening?) notifies all affected users (what about answers to deleted questions?), things might degenerate fast. Most of that would probably be irritating noise, even to those who don't care, or decide on mature consideration that the action was proper. Also, what about roomba-deletion? Commented Oct 4, 2015 at 14:08
  • 6
    Not being a native speaker, my word choice may not have been perfect, but according to Merriam Webster, sense 1 of "misuse" is "to use something incorrectly". I meant it in that sense. And I am only talking about this particular instance, the general performance of moderators is not on topic in this thread, is it?
    – meriton
    Commented Oct 4, 2015 at 14:16
  • 4
    Well, as you guess it's just that nuance and connotations mostly get lost on translation, and the connotation of "misuse" is more about "abuse" than "mistake", though only slightly. Anyway, that was only part of my comment, the rest is more important. Commented Oct 4, 2015 at 14:22
  • 2
    I don't mean that all deletions should notify all affected users, but that moderation deletations in response to a flag should notify the author of the flagged content. I agree that it does not make sense to notify authors of answers if the question was deleted. Will edit to clarify.
    – meriton
    Commented Oct 4, 2015 at 14:23
  • 4
    Moderators handle an insane amount of stuff every day, I'm amazed at the number of mistakes they don't make.
    – Undo Mod
    Commented Oct 4, 2015 at 21:04
-19

The main problem of Stack Overflow is that preserving its quality requires to close-delete a terrible mass of crap. And the review process requires around 5-10 people to read, understand and grade your content until a close or delete decision.

If you strengthen the content-saving mechanism, you will have more crap. If you strengthen the crap-elimination, also a lot of good content will be mistakenly deleted. If you try to make perfect both of them, you won't have enough volunteer resources to the review mechanism. The site tries to balance these goals, and this can't be done perfectly.

Thus, the reviewing system is practically over-loaded. If you see the size of the close queue, it is often too big. This is why the system is tuned to destroy the bad content, and preserving the false-positives is not really important.

If closing-deleting of content weren't so easy, then your answer probably survived, but the whole site would be on a lower quality.

It is similar to some spam-filter which is finetuned to eliminate all of spam, on the price that sometime good mails ends up also in the spam folders.

I've experienced this type of problem relatively seldom, because moderators are few and don't act too many on such a low-level of the micro-management.

What I would do in your place:

  1. I would flag the deleted answer with a polite ask for re-examination, like this: "I suspect, maybe this question had been mistakenly deleted - I ask to re-examine the deleting decision and undelete if it deserves." There is a big chance that this will result an undelete. If not, I would let it be as is. In the worst case, you will have a "declined" flag so you really don't have too many to lose.
  2. I would write 2-3 other answers. All of them surely hadn't been treated on such way. :-)
  3. The most important: if you get a harmful or maybe unfair treatment, let it be as it is until you don't experience a tendency in it. You will probably write hundreds of answers until you will get access to all of the review queues (and thus you will have a nearly full picture from the reviewing system), it is simply impossible that all of our content is treated fairly.
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    I've read this answer 3 times to try to understand why so many downvotes and no comments, since the answer is ok and is not harmful. The only reason that I've came up is that it does not answer the main topic, that is "why no feedback?", instead it proposes "what to do when you have something deleted?".
    – Zanon
    Commented Oct 4, 2015 at 13:46
  • 10
    On meta, downvoting means disagreement, not that the answer is useless.
    – meriton
    Commented Oct 4, 2015 at 13:49
  • 4
    @meriton, I know. I just can't understand why so many people disagree with this answer. I could not find what is wrong. Maybe the problem is an "off topic" answer.
    – Zanon
    Commented Oct 4, 2015 at 13:50
  • 15
    This answer does not acknowledge that a mistake occurred, but instructs the user to simply accept that valid answers can be arbitrarily deleted. Would you be willing to contribute under such circumstances? Moreover, it does not address the constructive suggestion the user made.
    – meriton
    Commented Oct 4, 2015 at 13:56
  • @meriton At the time of writing the text I tried to post politely on cooperatively to the meta, even on the price of sacrificing clarity. This is why I wrote this - actually, it is a polite version of something had got around similarly so many downvotes.
    – peterh
    Commented Sep 23, 2016 at 14:24

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