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After I flagged a bunch of "bad" (in my opinion) questions/answer I got all of them declined (no surprises that I got the above-mentioned message). Just because my opinion was so drastically different from the thoughts of moderators/community, I wanted to know whether these Q/A are actually suitable for this site. My main point is to figure out whether it makes sense for me to waist my time for flagging and writing description and community's time by reading my nonsense and declining it. So here I state the link, flag description and the resolution. Careful, long rant ahead:

  • The answer does not bring anything new (that was not covered in answers written 2 years ago). The same reason for another answer. Both declined because: flags should only be used to make moderators aware of content that requires their intervention
  • very low quality. What is a beacon network? What OP have tried? What connection does it have to neural network? But a moderator reviewed your flag, but found no evidence to support it.
  • here is my wall of text, i can't explore my code.. so please just tell mi why this error comes up. But this is not a very low quality question. Another wall of text with the same resolution.
  • not an answer which looks like an attempt to guess what might be the problem with a link. In my opinion this should be a comment. But oderator reviewed your flag, but found no evidence to support it
  • as a person who uses go, I can tell that it is not possible to understand what is going on there. But one more time it looks like it is not a low quality question
  • Not only the question is not appropriate here, the answers are vastly obsolete. Knowing about a huge progress in deep neural network and the hype created by google's success it it give a strange feeling to read how obsolete and useless they are. So instead of reopening and modifying I would suggest to delete the question because as with all technology the state of the art is changing. But flags should only be used to make moderators aware of content that requires their intervention. If a totally obsolete question with a completely obsolete/wrong answers is not something that requires intervention, then I do not know what requires it.
  • relates to anecdotal stories about how people used some AI technique. In my opinion the stories of how I build something is more suitable to a blog, but the reason for decline is same reason as above.
  • do you know why company A built product B? Highly subjective question, because no one except few leads from that Facebook team knows the answer. Also declined - I'd recommend using a standard close vote or close flag for this and let the community decide.
  • and we all need jokes about randomness/cryptography. Knowing how prolific xkcd or dilbert are, I am sure that I can answer any question with a picture from one of these sources. Do we really need it? It looks like yes, because flags should not be used to indicate technical inaccuracies, or an altogether wrong answer

Thanks for listening. One more time I want to figure out why exactly we think that these are good questions answers. So together with a downvote, I really hope to get at least a comment as a feedback.

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  • 6
    We really need a fast and reliable track to get attention from community about those highly voted problematic answer and obsolete off-topic question, since moderators are very unlikely to delete them without some form of community consensus. Especially for problematic answers - trying to remove them from the top spot is futile when the answer got many upvotes.
    – nhahtdh
    Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 7:48
  • 4
    @nhahtdh totally agree with you. Everyone on meta tells something like "downvote, flag and let the community handle that". This sounds amazing, but I do not want to wait for 5 years till 237 voted question will change it's position. Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 7:51
  • 10
    My canned response to a lot of this kind of thing is the one that contains "Flags should not be used to indicate a wrong or technically inaccurate answer". That's the purpose of downvoting. If it has enough downvotes, it stands to be deleted. If you can't get that on S.O., then the answer should remain. It doesn't matter what your opinion of an answer with 237 upvotes is, beyond being able to lower it to 236. The community has spoken, for better or worse. If we start empowering large numbers of individuals to override that, why bother with voting or consensus at all? Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 14:05
  • 5
    @delicateLatticeworkFever: It's important for correct information to triumph over wrong information. And we need a channel so that we can gather people's eyes when the correct answer is in the minority. Empowering a large number of individuals to override a piece of wrong information is what seems to be an agreed protocol here to deal with these cases, unless you have a better idea to deal with them.
    – nhahtdh
    Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 18:32
  • 1
    To your credit, some of those crappy questions/answers have been removed. It is MUCH harder with old questions. Many old accepted questions are/will be completely irrelevant... and they have amazing #s of upvotes because they are so old. Not because they are "so good" Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 20:40
  • Regarding #6 - If you had edited the answer to add a warning it is obsolete, with an explanation why, you would have caused the question to bounce back to the home page.
    – BSMP
    Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 21:07
  • 1
    @nhahtdh "Empowering a large number of individuals" is what voting is for -- but very clearly S. Dali's question is not about asking people to vote. It is about flagging to call in the air assault of a mod hammer (excuse the hyperbole), thereby short circuiting the need for tedious voting. Put another way, what I meant was, "empowering large numbers of individuals" to feel that they could call in such a hammer as individuals is not appropriate. If you think "large numbers" will agree with you bring it up in chat. Do not ask a moderator to play God Emperor for you. Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 22:58
  • @delicateLatticeworkFever: Do not ask a moderator to play God Emperor for you. I never said to get the moderator involved. I want a channel which does not involve mod, if it's not appropriate (or worth their time) for them to get involved. With that available, these flags can be route through that channel to be processed by community.
    – nhahtdh
    Commented Aug 7, 2015 at 2:58
  • @nhahtdh Okay. I think we have been talking past one another a bit. Anyway, I still think the existing mechanisms should be sufficient -- you can vote to close, the question will go in the review queue, which should certainly have enough eyes (if it doesn't, why would another mechanism fare any better?). 5 close votes could close a question with 237 upvotes (I think -- getting 4 people to agree with you might be hard tho). To further facilitate this, you also have chat. I admit to spending zero time in the S.O. chatrooms, but I have observed that working very well long term on U&L... Commented Aug 7, 2015 at 14:22
  • ...With regard to facilitation via chat, someone below mentioned the S.O. close review chatroom, which you might want to check out if you have not. Commented Aug 7, 2015 at 14:22
  • This sort of thing is not assisted when moderators use different criteria, by which I mean far more stringent, for NAA than mere mortals in the review queue. Can we please have some consistency on that. Or are we supposed to guess when a moderator is going to review it rather than the queue?
    – user207421
    Commented Aug 9, 2015 at 5:11

3 Answers 3

60

Since you've brought this up; we'll go through them 1-by-1.

  1. Not an answer / "This answer does not bring anything new."

enter image description here

In order to flag something as "Not an answer", it can't be an answer. The flag isn't "This answer is already posted." or "this isn't a good answer", the flag is "Not an answer."

A custom flag that says, "This answer adds nothing new." Will most likely always be rejected. Moderators are exception handlers; and two people posting the same answer years apart is not an exception; it's pretty normal. Feel free to downvote or vote to delete on your own. This isn't something moderators need to be involved with.

  1. "Very Low Quality" - iBeacon question.

enter image description here

Very low quality has a specific meaning. It means: "A moderator needs to delete this right now. This post is such crap it can never be redeemed through editing; and is so bad, it shouldn't even go through the normal closure/deletion process."

There's no way this question fits that criteria. If you had used a custom flag and said:

This question has a bounty so I can't vote to close; but it's a off site resource question and should be closed; also it's way too broad to be answered authoritatively.

That flag probably would have been marked helpful, even if nothing is done. It's not enough to flag posts, you have to flag them correctly. We use these flags to drive reviews; and if the flags are accepted incorrectly, it can cause problems downstream.

  1. "Very Low Quality" - Disputed by Community - "Could not Parse Mapping" question:

enter image description here

This flag wasn't declined by a moderator, it was disputed by the community, so nothing bad happened to you.

  1. "Not an answer" - Declined - PHP Notice Child Segmentation fault

enter image description here

Again, let's look at this. The user is providing information that could solve the problem. Question mark or not, it's an answer. It also has nine upvotes; which is another clue that at least 9 other people found it helpful in that regard. At best I could see flagging this answer as, "Shows the question is a duplicate; question can be closed as duplicate and this answer deleted.", but that would be a custom flag.

  1. Very Low Quality - Disputed - Dynamically sized Struct

Again, this was disputed flag; so no moderator got involved, and this didn't hurt you.

enter image description here

  1. Custom flag - Moderators Delete this - Neural networks Obsolete

Here's the text of your flag:

enter image description here

You're asking a moderator to summarily delete a question that requires the moderator to have subject level Expertise (which we don't always have); and you're asking the moderator to subvert the system for deletion in doing so.

The question here is, What is so bad about this question that a moderator needs to be involved? Is there an ongoing war around it? Is it a black-eye when someone tries to Google information on this subject?

  1. What are good examples to Neural Network Problems - Custom flag - Declined

enter image description here

This flag was declined because you didn't tell us what you wanted to do. You just gave us information; but didn't tell us how we should act on that. It was probably also declined because even if your answer was, "It should be deleted", it contains a lot of useful information that should not be summarily deleted by a moderator. Again, where's the black eye?

  1. Why did Facebook Create Thrift? - Custom flag, declined.

enter image description here

The problem with your flag here is that we already have an authoritative answer in the form of the Thrift White paper, and that answer was already given by the time you raised your flag. It'd be a bit like complaining that the barn door is open after the horses have left.

While the answer may be an opinion, the availability of reference material is a factor. It shouldn't have been a custom flag; you can easily vote to close and let it go through the normal channels. Custom flags are for things that have to have moderators intervene. We shouldn't be intervening in normal close matters unless there's a great reason.

Moderators are not a shortcut for the system.

  1. Custom flag - answer should be deleted because it's humor.

enter image description here

It has a joke in it; but it's also imparting information. Again, nothing for a moderator to do here; it provides information and it answers the question. Downvote if you don't like it.

All in all, it looks like you were banned from flagging because you're using flags inappropriately; this is to be expected; and I'm glad you're bringing this up here so we can help explain why this sort of flagging is not encouraged.

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  • 10
    A custom flag that says, "This answer adds nothing new." Will most likely always be rejected... Feel free to downvote or vote to delete on your own. This isn't something moderators need to be involved with. I'm not sure why this has to be pushed back to community. From your wording, it seems that you agree that repeated answer is recognized as problematic, but by declining the use of both the NAA flag and custom flag, the community doesn't have any reliable channel to remove the answer. At least, please leave the NAA flag alone, so that reviewers in LQ queue can deal with them.
    – nhahtdh
    Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 18:52
  • 1
    @nhahtdh The "NAA" is less problematic to decline than a custom flag; NAA is used for reviews, and we have a very strict definition of what "NAA" means. By the time it gets to us, it's already been in the queue for at least an hour. We wouldn't really accept a "delete this because it adds nothing new" because it requires a certain level of subject matter knowledge; and even if it doesn't, it's not something you need us for. Downvote until it can be deleted.
    – George Stocker Mod
    Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 19:18
  • 6
    I don't hope to resolve anything in this conversation, but I hope community moderators and other people realize that there is no effective channel to get these cleaned up. For close-worthy questions, there is the close vote queue, which questions with close votes are pushed in, but for cases like this, we only have unreliable channels to get them resolved.
    – nhahtdh
    Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 19:32
  • 4
    @nhahtdh I understand where you're coming from. You want a clean site. It will never be perfectly clean because 'clean' means something different to everyone, or as Robert Harvey put it below: "Moderator flags are normally reserved for serious problems; avoid flagging for things that the community can and should handle themselves, even if you disagree with the community's action or inaction." Sauce
    – George Stocker Mod
    Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 19:56
  • 1
    @nhahtdh That absolutely should be handled by the community. Extra answers that add nothing new can be downvoted and then deleted. StackExchange is all about community moderation, and that's a fine example. And if nobody bothers to downvote it because nobody sees it, well, sounds like it's not really a problem is it?
    – Joe
    Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 20:19
  • 2
    on #4, I would like to go on the record as saying that I think the practice of flagging possible answers as not-an-answer based only on the presence of a question mark is a terrible terrible idea.
    – AShelly
    Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 20:27
  • 2
    @Joe: When I said but I hope community moderators and other people realize that there is no effective channel to get these cleaned up, I only intend to raise the awareness of the problem - the solution may be in a form that doesn't involve moderator at all, but still provide the reliability of getting the problem resolved. I don't care if the rest of the site is not clean, but when I see something that should be cleaned up, I want to make sure that it is cleaned up.
    – nhahtdh
    Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 20:27
  • @AShelly I agree; and generally decline "NAA" flags if I think it's because the OP flagged due to the fact that the answer contains a question mark.
    – George Stocker Mod
    Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 20:33
  • @AShelly 100% agree. There is an 'edit' button for that, after all...
    – Joe
    Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 20:38
  • 2
    It's well-reasoned answers like this that give me great respect for the SO moderator krewe. Thanks!
    – O. Jones
    Commented Aug 7, 2015 at 0:25
  • @AShelly Most of the answers with a question mark I see are usually very poor and should have either been a comment, or should really need to be formulated as a real answer. Most of them seem more like a shotgun approach to answering questions, hoping that one of them will hit and garner some upvotes. Commented Aug 7, 2015 at 8:28
  • 1
    @MarkRotteveel, Alternately, many of the answers with a question mark are a genuine attempt to provide an answer to the asker, yet also recognize that there may be information missing, or a possible misunderstanding of what is intended. An answer asking "Can you use techniqueX?" and explaining why is a perfectly valid answer, and IMHO, better than simply saying "Use techniqueX" when you believe, but are not certain that it is appropriate for the OP.
    – AShelly
    Commented Aug 7, 2015 at 19:21
  • 1
    And regarding partial answers hoping for upvotes: What's wrong with that? The correct answers will be accepted and upvoted. The shots in the dark will not. Answers are what provide value to this site. A potential or partial answer to the OP's question may turn out to be the correct answer for the next visitor to that question. We should not be discouraging anyone trying to add good information.
    – AShelly
    Commented Aug 7, 2015 at 19:26
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Having had a quick look, I'd suggest that the problem here is a relative misunderstanding of the purpose of flagging vs. downvote or close voting.

The community members can:

  • Downvote a poor question or answer.
  • vote to close a question for being unclear, offtopic or otherwise a 'bad fit' for SO.
  • Delete stuff that's junk.

See:

https://stackoverflow.com/help/privileges

Since you only get those privileges at certain rep levels - flags exist in part to address this - and you'll see, for example, that you can 'flag' something as off topic, too broad, etc. That's basically pushing it into the 'close vote' queue.

But if you flag as VLQ, it goes into a different queue - one that's pruned a little more aggressively, and with a view to dealing with:

https://stackoverflow.com/help/privileges/flag-posts

"Very low quality (i.e. no amount of editing can salvage the post) (only posts scoring 0 or less)"

Likewise rude/abusive or spam posts need to be dealt with quickly. Otherwise 'normal' close reasons apply.

Note also - "Not an answer" - is for posts that don't even attempt to answer the question. Not for 'not very good answer' or 'wrong answer'. Those you downvote. (And if several people do, then they may well be deleted anyway).

The 'moderator attention' flag in particular is one that should be used sparingly, because there aren't many mods compared to the number of 'normal' users - so it's only really needed for scenarios where special circumstances apply or more severe action against specific users (rather than posts) is needed.

The rest, the community can - and should - take care of. That doesn't mean the things you identify are good per se, but most posts you can achieve a community consensus via upvotes and downvotes on the 'good' and 'bad' answers to a given question. Your flags should be reserved for the things where this doesn't apply.

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The answer does not bring anything new (that was not covered in answers written 2 years ago). ... declined because: flags should only be used to make moderators aware of content that requires their intervention

I see a lot of times that users will leave a comment saying like "this is already included in an answer that was left years ago, you've added nothing new" and then flag as NAA and get cleaned up by low quality posts reviewers without needing a mod to delete it. Even if you left custom mod message flag don't see why they wouldn't have deleted it as long as you left good description of why it needed to be deleted in the message.

very low quality. What is a beacon network? What OP have tried? What connection does it have to neural network? But a moderator reviewed your flag, but found no evidence to support it.

This was rightfully declined. The low quality flag should only be used for stuff that is totally off topic like "how do i ask her to marry me" or "fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffsssssssss zzzzzzjioweeeeeeeeeeeeeee".

here is my wall of text, i can't explore my code.. so please just tell mi why this error comes up.

Again, no low quality flag needed here. Just vote to close as unclear what you're asking or off-topic MVCE. Community can handle these questions by closing no need for mod intervention.

not an answer which looks like an attempt to guess what might be the problem with a link. In my opinion this should be a comment. But oderator reviewed your flag, but found no evidence to support it

This is an answer. "Have you tried to increase output_buffering in your php.ini?" , even though user stated it as a question , it's still an answer saying the OP could try to increase their output_buffering to resolve the issue. Now if the answer said "Have you tried this" and provided same link, then it would be NAA since the answer doesn't tell us anything.

relates to anecdotal stories about how people used some AI technique. In my opinion the stories of how I build something is more suitable to a blog, but the reason for decline is same reason as above.

Trying to get a moderator to delete such a highly viewed, upvoted question with upvoted answers is probably not going to happen. If you find a question like this and really think it needs to be deleted cast delete vote yourself or start a new question on meta to see what the community thinks. Just because a question is off-topic doesn't mean it should be deleted. That is why closed questions only get deleted under certain circumstances with roomba or if enough users vote to delete.

do you know why company A built product B? Highly subjective question, because no one except few leads from that Facebook team knows the answer. Also declined - I'd recommend using a standard close vote or close flag for this and let the community decide.

Again, just because something should be closed doesn't mean it needs to be deleted ASAP. When flagging for a mod to delete something, the post should need to be deleted ASAP, this is not the case here. Vote to close the question, once closed, vote to delete.

Resources:

Am I misusing the "Very Low Quality" flag?
Under the new triage system, when and how should moderators act on "very low quality" flags on questions?
HIQ "very low quality" link
Your answer is in another castle: when is an answer not an answer?

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  • 3
    Thank you for your answer. But I respectfully disagree with some of the claims: how do i ask her to marry me or ffffff is not about programming. These one are about programming, but just very low quality. You mentioned that community can handle it, but as I see in a span from 3 to 8 days it did not happen. Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 6:50
  • 8
    When in doubt, cast a custom flag and explain the problem instead of using one of the canned flags. Your description in the custom flag should answer two questions: what the problem is, and what you think the moderator should do about it. Moderator flags are normally reserved for serious problems; avoid flagging for things that the community can and should handle themselves, even if you disagree with the community's action or inaction.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 7:29
  • 8
    @SalvadorDali there are more questions that need community handling then there are members (or mods for that matter) that will do so. One way to reach out to more users at once quickly is to head for an appropriate chat room. Not all rooms are open for this kind of moderation but the SO Close Vote Reviewers room exists for that reason (and to get rid of the backlog in the CVQ)
    – rene
    Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 8:24
  • 5
    Low quality -> Vote to close/downvote. VLQ is for 'unsalvagable junk that should be deleted'
    – Sobrique
    Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 13:16
  • 3
    A question how do I ask her to marry me will be closed by the community. That's our job. Making a moderator spend the minute or so to deal with your flag is a massive waste of their time.
    – Joe
    Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 20:22
  • 1
    @Joe a question like that doesn't deserve to stick around even the 9 days for it to roomba. It should be deleted ASAP. Thus it deserves the low qual flag. They don't happen that much, and they're easy to realize it's way way off topic and crap , so doesn't take much moderator time at all.
    – CRABOLO
    Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 23:23
  • The problem is there are thousands of them. So thousands of them would take too much moderator time. And plenty of SO users have delete privs.
    – Joe
    Commented Aug 6, 2015 at 23:27
  • 1
    @Sobrique that... changed. VLQ's on questions go to triage, and if after an hour is not resolved then to mod's queue, where they are advised if "Is this an exceptional case where the community isn't able to get rid of trash fast enough" they should "delete".
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 7, 2015 at 1:07

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