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Today I came across this question

enter image description here

that obviously didn't deserve to get an answer, in preserving from getting future researchers the impression, such questions are well formed, and achieved at SO well.
Though there was an answer given by a (very) high rep user, where I thought these should know better, not to answer such question because of the above mentioned reasons:

enter image description here

Please forgive those low resolution screenshots, but I couldn't find a better way to provide <10K users with the stuff in question, because the question is actually deleted now.

How should we handle such answers appearing? I've actually downvoted it (and marked for deletion later on). IMHO such answer (though being correct, and pointing out the stuff necessary to solve), or even a comment in that direction would be wrong, since the question is unwanted at SO, and any different reaction might encourage the actual OP, or future researchers, that they will receive answers for asking inappropriate questions.

I have noticed the answerer about this, and of course used all of my available powers, to downvote the question and the answer, and to close- and delete vote that question.
The question is deleted now, but already has undelete() votes casted on it.

My primary concern about this is:

Did I act right here? (Usually I'm not downvoting for correct answers, but in this case giving an answer at all seemed to be inappropriate for me).

Sorry for raising the drama, but the answerer of the question themselves proposed I should raise it here for clarification.
I think the question won't fit well for SO policies and should have been closed in 1st place instead of receiving an answer (or even comment). Mostly because I'm concerned this would give a completely wrong bias for the OP or future researchers, and leave the impression, that such kind of questions may be asked on SO, and get some useful answer.

IMHO, we don't need any Igors (or Vlads to refer another meme) to serve the help vampires.

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    that obviously didn't deserve to get an answer why? Who decided that? Every question deserve an answer, doesn't matter if the question's quality is low. I don't know what is a vampire question actually, your question is like OP is an enemy and trying to us writing codes. Even a question is not clear and with low quality, still deserve an answer unluess you think answerers are doing that only for rep.
    – GLHF
    Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 5:25
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    @GLHF I've made up my points about that. I'm interested and engaged that the long term quality of the site is kept up. "Every question deserve an answer, doesn't matter if the question's quality is low." I strongly disagree: Not every question deserves an answer (that's why we have policies setup for off-topic questions) Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 5:28
  • This and this somewhat related Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 5:35
  • @Krishnabhadra "Somewhat" yes. Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 5:38
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    The question is too broad, not researched, and entirely fulfils the old "too localised" close reason. It is decidedly not useful for any future reader, unless they come here with the exact same problem and actually know how to search. I'm on the fence about answering questions like this because on one hand I like to help - but on the other hand, quality must be maintained above quantity or we become Yahoo Answers. Answering questions like these only encourages help vampires to continue asking. As for what to do... well. You're well within your rights to downvote, as that's your own business.
    – J. Steen
    Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 5:55
  • @J.Steen Well, I supposed all of that regarding the question being true beforehand. "Answering questions like these only encourages help vampires to continue asking." That well hits that same nail I'm trying to hammer on. Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 5:58
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    @πάνταῥεῖ Yeah. That comment was mostly for the benefit of those advocating answering all questions because all questions are useful. I'm agreeing with you, and disagreeing with that point. ;)
    – J. Steen
    Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 6:17
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    It's merely "Too Broad." Vote to close and delete accordingly. Answerers don't earn rep from deleted questions.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 6:38
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    AFAIK, the very first definition of "help vampires" is when they are asking questions/clarifications repeatedly without even trying. While I agree that question should be closed, I humbly disagree with the premise of the title. The case that the OP is "help vampire" is not yet proven.
    – Andrew T.
    Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 6:42
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    @AndrewT. Why should we wait for the 2nd bite, before eliminating the vampire? See member for today, it just goes from dusk till dawn And even worse, they're approaching here with a massive front recently. We need professional consults like Van Helsing to manage this, I'm afraid. Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 6:44
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    It's a shame to see paxdiablo, who I generally respect, falling into the "SO hates beginners" trap. It's nonsense. It is possible to be a beginner and ask an on-topic, appropriate question. Pointing out that a beginner has not done so is not the same as rejecting beginners. Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 10:54

7 Answers 7

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I'm tempted to dispute your premise here, debate the whole "answering no-effort questions causes others unwilling to put in any effort to ask more no-effort questions" idea... But that's a much longer, thornier discussion and in this case completely unnecessary.

See, you just admitted to downvoting an answer that you saw as correct and useful. You defend this with some highfalutin language about the good of the site, but the ends don't justify the means; you're still not voting based on the content of the post. Once you start rationalizing that, where do you stop? Do you downvote their answers to other questions too? Upvote answers to questions you feel are worthy, regardless of whether they're accurate?

And maybe you wouldn't take it any further than you have, but you're setting an example for others too. Especially when you start publicly chastising the answerer in comments. Is this what you want to be teaching new users?

Poorly-asked questions are a problem. Primarily because they tend to attract poor answers. If you're just now facing this quandary after almost 3 years on Stack Overflow, it's probably because it's so rare to find a good answer to an awful question. Heck, Reversal is one of the most rare badges - you might as well be asking if you should shoot unicorns to protect against over-grazing.

Vote based on content. If you see a crappy question, downvote it. If you see a crappy answer, downvote it. If you see a crappy answer to a crappy question, downvote both. And when you see a good, useful post - even in an unlikely location - upvote it. And stop worrying about unicorns.

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    "See, you just admitted to downvoting an answer that you saw as correct and useful" - I think you should distinguisih between "correct" and "useful" here; OP downvoted the correct answer because they think it's not useful - as in, not useful to the community as a whole or anybody else than the guy who asked the bad "do my homework please" question.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 8:39
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    @l4mpi - That is a misinterpretation of the phrasing "useful". You have taken it out of context.
    – Travis J
    Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 8:59
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    you might as well be asking if you should shoot unicorns to protect against over-grazing - that's classy. I might not even have had to type up my own answer, really :)
    – sehe
    Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 9:04
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    OK. I dig it. ------ Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 15:43
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    As far as debating the core issue of whether answering bad questions hurts the site, I've had a few things to say about that before: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/255782/… . (TLDR: No, I don't think providing good answers to bad questions leads to more of them being asked.)
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 16:21
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    Let's be clear that the specific post under discussion isn't a correct answer; there is no "correct", or even "answer", because there's no question. This is an advertisement requesting mentoring. (Which is, as has been said other places, a perfectly natural thing to need, but won't fit on SO.)
    – jscs
    Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 18:48
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    I don't think anyone is defending the question here, @Josh. The answer, OTOH, was pretty solid - I wish we could auto-reply with something like that every time someone typed "Write a program that" into the question editor.
    – Shog9
    Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 22:14
  • It's true; paxdiablo's post is a nice piece of pedagogy and it does seem a shame to raise such a ruckus about it.
    – jscs
    Commented Feb 18, 2015 at 9:05
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Dare to say that Stack Overflow isn't a help website but a knowledge base in Q&A format. If you don't tell them they'll assume it's a help website because that's what they want.

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    Stating that SO is a knowledge base, not a help website, isn't going to help since they don't know the difference and will assume it's still something that is supposed to be helpful. Any attempt to dismiss someone genuinely seeking guidance without providing it is a disservice to the SO community. Just because a question has no value to you doesn't mean the person asking it has no value. Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 9:34
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    @CandiedOrange just because a question has value to one single person doesn't mean it shouldn't be deleted, or should be answered. And please elaborate why telling people to adhere to SOs standards or GTFO if they don't read through the help center or lurk for a while before asking their first question is "a disservice to the SO community". I'd say answering their question without educating them about the expected SO standards is the disservice to the community; as teaching them how to ask a good question should take preference over answering their low-quality, heavily localized question.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 9:54
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    @l4mpi Please reread my comment. You are thrusting a position upon me that I did not take. Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 9:58
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"Eliminating the vampire" is not the goal.

Encouraging quality content is.¹

Upvote good content, downvote bad content.

If the answer is not bad, you can't downvote it. Period. As soon as we do that we're in the realm of political downvoting, and potentially punishing people for well-meaning contribution.

If someone bothers to answer bad question, their loss. Just don't upvote it - as luck will have it it will soon drop of the frontpage when the answer reaches -3 and no one will spot the answer.

If this is not working well enough yet, maybe the post ranking algorithm should be altered to weigh question downvotes heavier than mere activity.

If well implemented, we'll see people learning not to answer low-quality questions iff rep is their motivation. If not? Bless them! It's their time.


¹ Eliminating vampire posts is, by extension, a subgoal. Note the difference between a perceived need to chase away "bad individuals". That's not necessary to serve a community by rewarding good content and discouraging bad content.

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    "If the answer is not bad, you can't downvote it" - the downvote arrow doesn't talk about bad or good but about not useful. One can certainly say a good answer to an awful, extremely localized, unresearched question is not useful at all. From a cleanup perspective, it's detrimental as well - should the answer get upvoted, it will prevent the roomba from deleting the question after it's closed as "too broad".
    – l4mpi
    Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 8:32
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    @TravisJ "useful" depends on context. Useful to whom? Definitely not to me or you or anybody who already has basic programming knowledge. My point is, the answer may be useful to a small amount of users (who fall outside of SOs target group of professional and enthusiast programmers anyways), but can still be considered not useful for the site as a whole. As an example, a spectacular answer explaining how to write hello world in basic, posted on a low-quality question that is downvoted and deleted, is not useful at all.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 9:07
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    Talk about circular reasoning. You're referring to the usefulness after potential deletion.
    – sehe
    Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 9:11
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    I take it you forget about the part where you were citing this effective uselessness as a reason to downvote the answer. That's what makes it circular. The point of my answer is that the uselessness of the question should already discourage the answer enough. But @Shog9 put the point much more poetically :)
    – sehe
    Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 9:50
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    The usefulness is separate from the deletion. One can post an high-quality answer on how to add two numbers in python, which is still completely useless to anybody who ever has done any programming. Also, "The point of my answer is that the uselessness of the question should already discourage the answer enough" - Well, as evident by the question linked by OP, it doesn't. And it's not like that's a singular occurrence; I see it all day every day in the python and java tags. OP asks what should be done when the answerer is not discouraged and continues to post an answer to a bad question.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 10:00
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    @l4mpi Yeah. "What can we do" - throw up hands in despair - whatever shall we do, now that the end of the world is nigh. Well, like 90% of the drivel on the site, we downvote the bad posts and let history handle itself. (In fact the majority of those unwarranted answers are themselves bad, so you can have ball and downvote them. I don't see the problem.) No need to stretch logic because of /fear/
    – sehe
    Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 10:04
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    @sehe Note I'm neither in despair nor fear for the end of the world. I am however under the impression that answering low-level crap questions, no matter how good the answer, is at the end of the day a wasted effort at best and actively detrimental to the site quality at worst. Resorting to sarcasm in response to that just feels like you're out of logical arguments.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 10:13
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    Just don't upvote answers to bad questions? If someone posts a good answer to a bad question the thing to do is upvote the answer and edit the question. meta.stackoverflow.com/a/253758/1493294 Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 10:28
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    @l4mpi Seems to me you're fabricating reasons to downvote good posts. And the only reason I can smell is "fear". That's exactly as good an argument as you are making. ("that just feels like you're out of logical arguments"). My statement is that it's not an issue to have useless posts. Besides there is nothing you can do stop people from wasting their time. (Some people will waste their time arguing in comment threads.)
    – sehe
    Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 10:38
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    @sehe Your opinion is that it's not an issue to have useless posts. My experience is that people who get their crap answered, and way too often without even being told why their question is bad, often proceed to ask more of the same useless crap questions. I rarely see high rep users taking time time to educate users about SO, instead of just writing an answer. Also, why are you focused on votes? I don't care if the answer is downvoted or not, I'm saying it should not be posted in the first place; and certainly not without telling OP how and why their question is a bad fit for SO.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 10:44
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    "If the answer is not bad, you can't downvote it. Period." Well that's just nonsense for a start!! To my annoyance, it's been pointed out to me many times on the metas that people can downvote for whatever reason they damn well please. Period. Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 10:49
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    @LightnessRacesinOrbit That's funny, because you're the one who attuned me to the notion that political downvoting exists, and shouldn't be encouraged. IMO this question is exactly about this: downvoting answers only because the question is bad is political downvoting
    – sehe
    Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 11:19
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    @l4mpi - I have nothing to say because I am not arguing against the points made here. I believe they are accurate. It is your retorts I find primarily opinion based and lacking in any sort of factual support other than what you cite as experience. You are the one making broad claims and therefore you are the one with the burden of proof. Please provide any shred of evidence towards your claims aside from "trust me, I have seen it".
    – Travis J
    Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 16:27
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    @l4mpi - You mean the guy who had all of his accounts blocked? See, that is what happens. The system takes out the asker, not the answerer. Stop using some sort of vigilante justice to attack answerers because of poor questions. Stopping answers only leads to less answers, not less questions.
    – Travis J
    Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 16:37
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The question is drowning in fluff (~80%), being essentially:

Have problem, need help coding.

I am stumped on starting my homework, please help:

Write a program that prompts the user to enter the weight of a person in kilograms and outputs the equivalent weight in pounds. Output both the weights rounded to two decimal places.

As should be immediately obvious from the copy-edited question, that's simply "too broad", far too localized and should be closed, downvoted and deleted.
Anything making deletion less likely is just not helpful.

Now, to that specific answer: SO is not for personal tutoring, that's specifically outside its scope.

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    "Anything making deletion less likely is just not helpful" - this, a thousand times. Sadly I can only upvote it once.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 12:13
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Did I act right here?

No. You downvoted a useful post and started having a mind-altering experience in the comments.

The question was also not a "help vampire" question.

However, I tend to agree that I wish blatantly off-topic questions would not be answered, because it does send the wrong signal to the author. Especially when the question is subsequently and inevitably going to be deleted.

And this was one, since this is not a helpdesk or a chatroom where you can get "hints", "tips" or "guidance" — honestly, when will some people accept this? Rightfold said it best:

[..] Stack Overflow isn't a help website but a knowledge base in Q&A format. If you don't tell them they'll assume it's a help website because that's what they want.

Posting an answer regardless of the question's validity, just because "I want to help the OP" is not necessarily the best thing to do. Helping people is great, but this notion that it must come above any other concern is ludicrous, especially when "helping" is so difficult to quantify; in software development, certainly, the value of ones knowledge and experience is certainly subjective. That way, Experts Exchange lies.

But I still think that erring on the side of not blindly downvoting everything and trying to "eliminate" the author as if SO were some kind of virtual Hunger Games arena is probably in the best interest of everyone involved.

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It seems in the comments that some users are implying the question asker is a help vampire. Let's go through the help vampire checklist:

  • Do they ask the same, tired questions others ask (at a rate of once or more per minute)?

This is from what I can tell the user's first and only question, there's no pattern of repeated behavior here.

  • Do they clearly lack the ability or inclination to ask the almighty Google?

The question is so localized that google is unlikely to be helpful.

  • Do they refuse to take the time to ask coherent, specific questions?

The question seems pretty coherent and specific to me.

  • Do they think helping them must be the high point of your day?

AFAICT the user hasn't exhibited this, but the screenshots are small and I'm not 10k.

  • Do they get offensive, as if you needed to prove them why they should use Ruby on Rails?

Same as above.

  • Are they obviously just waiting for some poor, well-intentioned person to do all their thinking for them?

This is the case of many students. A student is not necessarily a help vampire and a help vampire is not necessarily a student.

  • Can you tell they really aren't interested in having their question answered, so much as getting someone else to do their work?

This does seem to be the case here, but I think a key idea is that we simply don't know. We don't know what the user has tried, what they have gone through or what they're struggling with, whether they have a crappy teacher or in some programming class whose curriculum is recycled from the '90s. What we're confident of is that SO has given us the tools to downvote, delete, close and move on. I sometimes think that users can often overreact to a low quality question with such inexplicable hostility that it drives away people.

If someone wants to take time out of their day to help somebody or post an answer to a low quality question, great, you can downvote it. But beyond that, I wouldn't make a judgment call. After all, there are hundreds of teachers and tutors who deal with help vampires daily and you wouldn't discount their hard work, would you?

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  • "that some users are implying the question asker is a help vampire" Well they're look like a new help vampire coming up. Arguable if we should allow them getting to evolve from their coffins a bit. I prefer to stick the wooden pole to their heart, before they even have a chance to blink! Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 6:18
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    I didn't research this particular question-asker, but my comments about actual help vampires still stands.
    – J. Steen
    Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 6:19
  • @J.Steen The rhetoric about help vampires pops up every now and then but it serves no purpose other than to add fuel to the flame, unless it applies to the situation at hand. After all, the purpose of meta is to address actual problems.
    – user3920237
    Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 6:24
  • @emyabel "Asking for guidance ..." smells from that vamp grave/coffin so much :-P. We should consult Van Helsing, but I'm pretty sure he wouldn't hesitate to react immeadeatly! Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 6:25
  • @remyabel My rhetoric was left, in this case, as comments just for the reason that it might not apply to the exact situation at hand. The purpose of meta, for me, is to discuss issues both specific and general, where specific cases spark general debate. But. I'll bow out, since this obviously isn't about actual help vampirism (yet) - just a new user who hasn't read the help pages.
    – J. Steen
    Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 6:27
  • I also use far too many commas.
    – J. Steen
    Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 6:29
  • @remyabel Why should we wait for the 2nd bite, before eliminating the vampire? See member for today, it just goes from dusk till dawn Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 6:41
  • The fact that the user may not yet fit your definition of "help vampire" doesn't result in any coherent argument here. The first reason you cite is that it's the users first question - which makes it even more important to not answer it and to make it clear that these kinds of questions should not be asked on SO. Furthermore, you say "the question seems pretty coherent and specific to me" - what? It's not even a question, it's a copypaste of their assignment. A question would be something like "please explain this specific part" or "I tried this and it fails, why"; not "do my assignment".
    – l4mpi
    Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 7:51
  • @l4mpi Your examples of specific/coherent questions are even worse. That's the equivalent of "it doesn't work".
    – user3920237
    Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 13:58
  • Note I have only 600 characters to work with, I can hardly write an essay. These were meant as examples for the minimal requirement for a question, namely identifying a specific, narrow, answerable part, or describing a specific attempt (and of course giving at least an error message and a stacktrace in case of an error, or the wrong and expected output in case of a wrong result). And I don't see how any of that is worse than "I have no idea what I'm doing but here's my assignment".
    – l4mpi
    Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 14:04
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I think that the "quality of the site" smells of elitism.

Unless the same user asks these inane questions over and over again and you happen to stumble upon them as well, I would not accuse them of being a help vampire.

Either answer such question smartly, not will full code but in school book style, or just leave it alone and let others decide if they want to help him or not.

(Side note: But then again, I disagree even with closing of questions regarding libraries recommendations.)

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    Again: "Asking for guidance ..." smells from that vamp grave/coffin so much :-P. We should consult Van Helsing, but I'm pretty sure he wouldn't hesitate to react immeadeatly, take the wooden pole and stab it right through their heart! Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 6:28
  • Why should we wait for the 2nd bite, before eliminating the vampire? Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 6:35
  • @πάνταῥεῖ: IMO, you are not waiting even for the first. You primitively stake them with a sharp aspen stick.
    – wilx
    Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 8:57
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    @wilx - too difficult without training. Same with beheading - use fire. Commented Feb 17, 2015 at 16:45

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