-19

I spent a couple of hours today watching the tag on SO. It was bad, guys. Real bad. I knew that quality on SO was dropping, but this was almost pure noise.

A Meta question from last week mentioned "A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy", and it got me thinking about one of the community moderation techniques mentioned there:

And then my favorite pattern is from MetaFilter, which is: When we start seeing effects of scale, we shut off the new user page. "Someone mentions us in the press and how great we are? Bye!" That's a way of raising the bar, that's creating a threshold of participation. And anyone who bookmarks that page and says "You know, I really want to be in there; maybe I'll go back later," that's the kind of user MeFi wants to have.

I recognize it's a drastic proposal, but should signup be closed for a while?

This would:

  • let us prune problematic users from the system without letting them come back immediately as different users
  • make an SO account and reputation something to value--if you can lose your account for not following the rules, you're gonna be more careful
  • let the site experts take a break from moderating an unending tide of crap...
  • ...which would lead to a more nurturing environment for existing novice users...
  • ...which would lead to more expert users.

I know this would bar some excellent new users from joining for a while. I know. But you know what? If programming is a part of their lives, whether they're students, professionals, or hobbyists, they're going to make it back here sooner or later. Maybe we'll be a little less jaded and burnt-out when they do.

13
  • 2
    closed for a while? How long are you proposing? I don't think preventing users from signing up is going to stop the pure noise and junk that we get. It will just start all over when we open this up again.
    – Taryn Mod
    Commented May 27, 2014 at 21:40
  • 11
    Just because there are a lot of bad new users, does not mean all new users will be bad. What do you think closing it for a week or two is going to change? When you open it again, you're just going to get the same influx of some good questions, and lots of bad ones. Never mind that there are a ton of existing users who continue to post craptastic questions.
    – Aaron Bertrand Staff
    Commented May 27, 2014 at 21:41
  • Why would you automatically assume they are going to make it back here? How would they know when to come back? And most importantly, once we open the gates again.... whats going to change? Maybe those good users will come, but so will all the noise. Commented May 27, 2014 at 21:42
  • 1
    bluefeet: at least a month. Maybe longer. And yeah, it'll start again when we open it back up, but we'll have more users who care.
    – Amanda S
    Commented May 27, 2014 at 21:44
  • The problem is the ones who really need help are the ones who write low quality questions. They will definitely return if they want to have their questions answered that bad. Plus, they may save questions for when the site opens back up.
    – Anonymous
    Commented May 27, 2014 at 21:45
  • 3
    @AmandaS You are making an assumption that preventing new users from joining will increase the likelihood that other users will care about the quality on the site, it won't. There are plenty of users who answer those pure noise questions now and restricting new users from joining won't stop that.
    – Taryn Mod
    Commented May 27, 2014 at 21:48
  • @AaronBertrand I don't think all new users are bad, but a whole lot of the bad users are new. And if existing users are posting a lot of craptastic questions, then there should be consequences for that, up to and including not being able to post on the site for a while.
    – Amanda S
    Commented May 27, 2014 at 21:49
  • 1
    @Dgrin91 Why do I think they're going to make it back here? Because they're programmers and have questions they want answered. How would they know when to come back? Banner on the site that says "Signup is closed until $DATE."
    – Amanda S
    Commented May 27, 2014 at 21:51
  • @AmandaS SO isn't the only knowledge tool out there. If I was a new user, I wouldnt wait for SO. My questions and problems are here now, not in $DATE days/weeks/months/years (or however long we somehow decide to make it). Moreover, whatever we DO decide will not be enough. We've got tens of thousands of piles of crap. I dont plan on sifting through it, no matter what the state of SO is. Commented May 27, 2014 at 21:56
  • 4
    The answer is not to freeze sign up but for experienced users to step up and help those that want to do better and take appropriate action on those who don't care to do better. I downvoted and commented an almost 5k user yesterday in android for a code-only answer which definitely could have benefited from some explaining. And he called me a zealot and didn't understand what he had done wrong even after I explained it. We need to use the privelages that we have to make it better (e.g. down/up votes, close votes, etc...)
    – codeMagic
    Commented May 27, 2014 at 22:33
  • If the [android] tag is such a problem, just blacklist it for a month. </modest_proposal>
    – Wooble
    Commented May 27, 2014 at 22:39
  • 1
    Contrary to popular belief, the newest of new users aren't as bad as they used to be. It's just a matter of dealing with those who've already got a bit of reputation and still asking poor questions. Commented May 28, 2014 at 2:47
  • I've mentioned this in comments at least half a dozen times, but never got around to typing it up as a proposal. Kudos. Would upvote again if I could.
    – jscs
    Commented May 28, 2014 at 6:04

3 Answers 3

19

No.

The tag is bad, and we need to clean it up. We've been talking about the rash of low quality questions on meta a lot. And it's not just limited to the Android tag. It's everywhere. It's just more noticeable because Android is very popular right now.

So what are we doing about this? We're making question bans better, trying to cleanup these tags, and try to inform users why their question is crap.

But that doesn't mean we should let the good people suffer because some people are doing bad stuff.

Remember back in school, when a teacher would punish everyone because a few people were doing something that they weren't supposed to be doing? That's what we would be doing here. And I don't think that's the right solution.

We would be punishing all new users because of the old users who created crap. Why should we think that all new users are going to post crap? We should at least give them a chance.

So what should we do? First, clean up the damage that has already been done. Continue to provide feedback to users on why their post is low quality. And finally, continue to block users who continually post low quality posts. Maybe we should add a new feature for this? I'm not sure. But it shouldn't be up to a new feature to solve this, we as a community need to help, too.

2
  • 2
    I'm not saying I disagree with this answer, but it is more than a little sad that three years after the cleanup effort began, we are still saying that the Android tag is bad and needs to be cleaned up. Clearly there is a systemic problem, unsolvable by normal cleanup.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented May 28, 2014 at 4:50
  • @CodyGray I'm not sure if it's that, or we just haven't had enough users cleaning up the tag. I'm going to ask Shog for stats sometime, but I'm not sure. I think the main problem is just the popularity of the tag. We get usually 1 question per 2, 3 minutes. And for the crappy ones that need closed, we just don't have enough people active seeing all of the bad questions. So... I'm not sure what to do.
    – hichris123
    Commented May 28, 2014 at 10:36
8

No.

People think us elitist enough already. This would only serve to dump plutonium flavored jet fuel to that fire. Sure it would cut down on the noise but its akin to taking a bazooka to your neighbor's speakers because the music is too loud.

Word of mouth gets around that "Hey, SO really is elitist and reactionary because hey look, they closed their sign-ups." This will serve to only increase our problems as it would attract trolls who are now convinced that we are stodgy enough to be "fun".

Call the police (mods) on the noisy neighbors, don't blockade the street.

This would also serve to drive HORDES of desperate users to Programmers. I really don't want to deal with that.

3
  • 1
    Your last point about merely diverting the flood to a different Exchange is key.
    – rlb.usa
    Commented May 27, 2014 at 21:50
  • 1
    Stackoverflow is supposed to be by experts, for experts, right? We're elitist already. ;) Good point about driving users to Programmers, though. Ouch.
    – Amanda S
    Commented May 27, 2014 at 21:53
  • 4
    @AmandaS SO isnt just for experts. Its for ALL levels. We have high standards for questions, not for users. Commented May 27, 2014 at 21:58
5

No.

In fact, you've already answered your own question.

they're going to make it back here sooner or later.

Closing sign-ups doesn't accomplish anything but a headache for the moderators and it doesn't fix the mess. If you want to work on cleaning it up, great, go for it! But you don't need to close the doors to do so. As you pointed out already, you need to work on the problem, and you've already outlined some excellent steps.

This problem comes up again and again, it's no new beast.

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .