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Update

Based on the feedback we received on this post, we have modified the criteria we will use to invite RMs to the R Language Collective going forward.

We have removed the rep requirement, the collective membership requirement, and removed the Commentator badge from consideration. The remaining criteria are:

  1. Active in the collective’s tags in the last 18 months (measured as 20+ upvoted answers)

  2. No suspensions or problematic behavior in the last 18 months

  3. gold tag badge

  4. Have at least four of these additional badges:


Today we are inviting another round of users to be Recognized Members (RMs) in the R Language Collective! This is a new process, so we are testing it out by starting with invitations to the users with the top ten highest reps who meet the criteria below.

The current RMs, subject matter experts who were identified in the pre-launch planning stage, worked together with Community Managers to determine the criteria to consider for this first round of invitations.

R Language Collective RM Criteria:

  1. Member of the R Language Collective

  2. Active in the collective’s tags in the last 18 months (measured as 20+ upvoted answers)

  3. No suspensions or problematic behavior in the last 18 months

  4. At least 20,000 reputation on Stack Overflow

  5. gold tag badge

  6. Have at least four of these additional badges:

These are the criteria for the users we are sending RM invitations to today. We are discussing the possibility of having modified criteria for people who independently step forward to volunteer to take on the role.

The expectations of Recognized Members include communicating with other RMs to support collective decision making, and participating in curation and other projects that the collective takes on. It is not necessarily a permanent position, and continued participation will be reevaluated as time goes on.

When inviting in new RMs the goal is to find users who are subject matter experts, are regularly active on the site, and who have an interest in supporting the learning and advancement of the whole community in their area of practice. The criteria for RMs can be different for each collective, and can evolve over time. What do you think about the above criteria for the R Language Collective?

If you were one of the people invited, you will receive a notification where you can accept or decline the invitation. We hope you will join us! Since this is our first time inviting users to become RMs in an existing Topic Collective, we'd also like to get your feedback on the experience which we can use to streamline the process going forward.

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    Apart from the dubious, IMO, "Reputation of at least 20,000" criterion (but that relates to a bigger concern over using reputation as a metric of providing value), the criteria used look rather good to me - nice to see curation efforts as part of the requirements.
    – 0Valt
    Commented Apr 17, 2023 at 20:38
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    I also find the 20k-Rep Threshold rather high..., and I wonder how sbd could ever reach 20k-Rep without posting 10 Comments...! => The 'Commentator' Badge is a bit useless, and "Have at least four of these additional badges:" therefore automatically becomes "Have at least three of these additional badges:"...
    – chivracq
    Commented Apr 17, 2023 at 20:46
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    I'd tend to value users who are not only generating reputation, but curating the content being generated. After all, once appointed, all of their past and future posts become "recognized" as stellar contributions... simply looking at what boxes they've ticked off via badges doesn't really touch on that
    – Kevin B
    Commented Apr 17, 2023 at 21:05
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    @KevinB it won't get applied to past posts. See this: stackoverflow.com/questions/44638590/… this was recommended by another RM but not automatically because I got appointed. Commented Apr 17, 2023 at 21:39
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    @chivracq you are right. That was initially suggested as a requirement for users who volunteer to be an RM (out of scope here, but we are discussing slightly lower req for those users) and stayed in this list. Although, every user that got an invite has at least 5 of those badges if that makes a difference. Commented Apr 17, 2023 at 21:56
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    iunno. i still think the entire concept is slimy. You're appointing users to have special treatment in having their answers be promoted above everyone else because... reasons.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Apr 17, 2023 at 22:13
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    @KevinB agreed. I just wanted to clear that it won't get applied to past, but all in all, I came to not like the "RM flairs". FWIW, I brought that up privately and am waiting for updates from devs so I can share my suggestion (removing that text from the flairs) on MSO. Commented Apr 17, 2023 at 23:19
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    As I said before in the private channels, I think we should drop the collective membership from the requirements and do a round of auto-invites considering that this collective and the whole concept of collectives have not been around for a long time. It can be added to the mix, later on when we get more exposure. Commented Apr 17, 2023 at 23:46
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    I don't understand what this collective is for. Technical-related tag moderation? What else?
    – Lundin
    Commented Apr 18, 2023 at 10:33
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    @M-- That post doesn't explain what these are for either. "These groups will draft the initial set of processes around answer recommendation and article development." What does that even mean? I was wondering if someone could explain their purpose in a single sentence.
    – Lundin
    Commented Apr 18, 2023 at 14:39
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    @SamR understandable. I cannot give you an answer right now. As I said, number of projects are in discussion, and there is a discussion about the whole collective purpose. I am sure updates will be shared on MSO, but until we reach some consensus, it is not for me to share my ideas as if they were agreed upon. I hope Sasha or someone else can provide better answer at least with some "general details". Commented Apr 18, 2023 at 15:09
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    I'm simply past seeing feedback/discussion hidden behind a private team as being a useful form of "collaboration". it's an echo chamber with no accountability
    – Kevin B
    Commented Apr 18, 2023 at 16:04
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    The specific projects and goals for the R Language Collective are to be determined by the RMs and the membership as a whole, so they are being developed slowly as the collective grows. Having this new group of RMs on board will help with that, because they will bring in more ideas and perspectives that we can present to the community going forward. Broadly speaking, the purpose of the collective is to organize content and curation efforts around a certain area of practice.
    – Sasha StaffMod
    Commented Apr 18, 2023 at 16:51
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    isn't the goal of this collective just to justify the paid collectives existing and assist in the sale of further paid collectives?
    – Kevin B
    Commented Apr 18, 2023 at 17:00
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    @KevinB That is an 100% incorrect statement, and does not reflect anything we've said about this collective. I realize you view everything collectives-related through the lens of opinions you formed over a year ago, but as everything here in this post reflects, the R Language Collective is meant to be community-led and community-guided. So it will take time to find its shape. Your reservations are understandable, but perhaps you can keep a more open mind as you interact with your fellow community members who see the potential in these efforts.
    – Berthold StaffMod
    Commented Apr 18, 2023 at 17:20

3 Answers 3

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Drop the 20k rep requirement

The main issue that it's largely duplicative with the gold tag badge: you need to have achieved at least 10k reputation worth of answers in one tag to get the badge. That's evidence enough of deep knowledge of both Stack Overflow and the subject matter.

It also disincentivizes useful behaviors that cost reputation, such as bounties or downvoting bad answers. This problem is shared with the existing system of granting privileges based on reputation, but we shouldn't add new dependencies on reputation for privileges.

And finally, for reasons that are probably obvious (waves hello), I think that users can be excellent curators without ever hitting 20k reputation.

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    Without 20k rep, you cannot vote to delete answers; oh wait, what's that diamond beside your username?! Haha. P.S. We discussed 10k rep as a requirement for users who volunteer to be an RM but it was left out of this post since this focuses on "auto-invites". Commented Apr 17, 2023 at 21:41
  • Given that r is the 14th most popular tag on the site, it shouldn't be that hard for users following it to get 20k. I agree that rep isn't a valid metric for domain knowledge, but it is a somewhat valid metric for participation over time.
    – Lundin
    Commented Apr 18, 2023 at 10:37
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    @Lundin in my experience, the more popular the tag, the more votes are spread out. You can probably get 2-3 votes on most posts. The vast majority of my participation is in JS tags and related. I have 857 answers. Of those 820 have a score of 3 and below. That's 95.68%. 20k isn't a cakewalk. Moreover, there are plenty of users who are very knowledgeable and very active in moderating the tag who do not have 20k or even a gold tag badge. Because they are active and have the knowledge to point to the correct duplicate. It's only easy to get 20k by FGTW-ing and blanket answering all the dupes.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Apr 18, 2023 at 11:35
  • @VLAZ I think the amount of up-voted posts is quite individual, depending on what kind of questions you answer and how much effort one puts into them. I'm mostly active in the C tag which has very similar activity compared to R and 80% of my answers have a score of 3 or lower. Anyway, it isn't even clear what the purpose of this Collective is - if the purpose is tag-related moderation then perhaps the criteria should be biased towards moderation track record rather than rep. If the purpose is some other technical expertise-related one, then maybe don't pick users who only do moderation.
    – Lundin
    Commented Apr 18, 2023 at 11:57
  • @Lundin and Vlaz. 20K rep and r gold badge are only for auto-invitations. If a user steps up to be an RM we are considering (not written in stone) R silver badge and 10k rep, but to send out auto invite, we used a higher criteria. Let me clarify that when I did my query to figure out how many auto-invites will be send out, I came up with 130 users or so, but I have not considered collective membership which not everyone has joined for different reasons. And am advocating to drop that one criterion at least for one round of auto invites. So, not an elitist group that wants to keep it small ;) Commented Apr 18, 2023 at 14:05
  • @M-- but you only sent "invitations to the users with the top ten highest reps who meet the criteria below" so what was the point of the 20k rep? If there were only 5 people with >20k rep would you only have auto invited those 5?
    – Sam Dean
    Commented Apr 18, 2023 at 14:56
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    @SamDean This is a question for staff. We did not limit it to top 10. I guess it is more of an experimental round. I think when they intersected their list (collective membership, no problematic behavior, recent engagement) with my query, they ended with 10 users, not that there was a limited seats available. Inviting only 5? That query was the basis for setting the criteria. So I started by looking at the number of users who pass the "badges criteria" and set the reputation limit based on that list and the fact that 20k rep gives you some extended moderation tools. Cont'd. Commented Apr 18, 2023 at 15:01
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    So to answer your question, No! If there were only 5 users with over 20K rep, we would've changed the criteria. P.S. When I say I started by looking at the ..., that's just the start of the process. I then brought it up as a discussion with other RMs to develop the criteria; not that I chose them all by myself. Commented Apr 18, 2023 at 15:02
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    @SamDean As M-- explained we cross referenced the two queries in order to consider all the criteria. The resulting list actually had 16 users on it, but myself and other staff thought it would be good to just start with the top 10 for this first round of invites to have a manageable size group to work with while figuring out the process. Anyone who wasn't included this time will certainly still be considered next time we invite another round of RMs.
    – Sasha StaffMod
    Commented Apr 18, 2023 at 15:47
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    All the users we invited this time actually had a rep over 25k. I think the main reason the list was so small is not the 20k rep requirement, but the collective membership requirement, as the collective only has about 2,500 members so far (but has been growing consistently since it launched). That said, all the criteria including the rep requirement is up for reconsideration, which is why we are looking for community feedback here.
    – Sasha StaffMod
    Commented Apr 18, 2023 at 15:50
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Disclaimer: I am one of the RMs from R collective and am simply sharing some information and reflecting some personal insights. This is in no way the official stance. I made this post a community wiki so other RMs can share other types of information which I may have overlooked.

I just want to walk you through the process of choosing these criteria. I started looking at different badges and picked up the ones that I thought are reflecting moderation and curation efforts or some level of involvement in . From Marshal and Deputy to Steward and Reviewer. Then I shared my thoughts with the rest of the RMs and through some discussion, we chose what badges are more relevant and which ones should be picked up (for instance, we picked up Deputy over Marshal since it'd have been a very tight criterion otherwise). While I initially suggested all of 7 badges (Commentator was added later), the group landed on asking for 4 out of 8.

Reputation was part of the initial list. However, R gold badge was considered to be the main indicator whether someone is considered to be an SME or not.

N.B. As of now, we have lower requirements for volunteers (R silver badge and 10k rep).

Based on that discussion, I created a query (with the help of @rene) to find users who pass the "badges requirement", and looking over that list, 20k+ reputation seemed like a reasonable threshold for auto-invites (~130 users). Again, the requirement for volunteers is different.

Suggestion: Do a round of auto-invites without considering Collective membership

Adding collective membership as a requirement, did cut that ~130 down to 10 16 (see this comment by Sasha), but that does not mean that limited number of "seats" were available. I am all for doing at least one round of auto-invites without considering that requirement.

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  • Thanks - this helps me understand why I'm struggling to judge whether the criteria are appropriate. Could you clarify what you mean by SME? What is the "subject" here - is it R programming, or being involved in the SO [r] tag? Or something else?
    – SamR
    Commented Apr 18, 2023 at 19:14
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    @SamR SME in R. The criteria is (or supposed to be) a mix of R knowledge and involvement in curation on SO. Commented Apr 18, 2023 at 19:51
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    Thanks that does clarify the question. I think any set of rules is necessarily going to include some people you would want to exclude and vice versa, but these seem like a decent start.
    – SamR
    Commented Apr 18, 2023 at 20:14
  • @SamR I know you didn't mean it that way, but to clarify, these rules were not designed to discriminate against/favor any individuals. (Don't sue me, lol). Commented Apr 18, 2023 at 21:02
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Some additional proposed criteria, which we would also like feedback on are below. These were not considered for the current round of invitations but could potentially be considered in the future. Potential Criteria:

  • At least 150 votes in the tag (half of those needed for the Civic Duty badge)
  • At least 10 comments in the tag
  • At least 20 votes to close in the last 18 months
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    Maybe useful if you gave Nb's to your 3 Options, instead of just Bullets, I upvoted that Post for the Idea/Concept but I don't support #2 (the 10 Comments) that I find useless... Any 'Gold Badge' holder with 10k-Rep in the Tag will pass the '10 Comments' Req... /// Although I've seen Users with 10k(+)-Rep only gained from 1 stupid/basic Qt asked back in 2008 ("concat 2 strings" or stg like that), but even for those, they probably needed more that 10 Comments to anderstand the Answer,,, // More useful maybe might be: 50 Answers in the Tag with "Score>0 or Accepted"... :idea:
    – chivracq
    Commented Apr 18, 2023 at 3:01

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