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Official statement posted by SE

Stack Exchange Q&A access will not be restricted in Russia


Possibly duplicated with: Is SE going to limit Russia-based individuals and companies' access to its resources?, because this question: Should Stack Overflow block access from Russian IP addresses? is possibly duplicated with the question on Meta SE (according to first comment in which I agree). Sorry, I have missed this!

Context:

(1)

Russian soldiers are killing people in Ukraine. Both soldiers and civilians, including children.

(2)

Stack Overflow is the place where developers learn and build careers (taking from the self-description of the website). In the 2021 Developer Survey Russian Federation was in 13th place in the survey responses (however, it doesn't mean Russian Federation is in 13th place in terms of the number of users on Stack Overflow).

Stack Overflow is used for asking questions about the programming. The questions exist in a non-political context, i.e. it is not possible to say if the code will be used to solve a problem with a medical program or for developing a combat drone or to shut down Ukrainian websites.

Stack Overflow hasn't done anything regarding the war (including releasing any statement) and has not publicly said that they did something. It could mean that this situation has no impact on their revenue, i.e. nothing has changed regarding making money in the Russian Federation area, like the money from ads or jobs. This helps organizations in Russia grow, so they can pay taxes and this money can be then be used to kill people.

My Question:

Does Stack Overflow have a moral obligation to do or say something to show that they are aware of the situation in Ukraine? Because their business could have a direct military impact on the people in Ukraine because without a line of code the weapon won't work, but it is impossible to say if the line of code was taken from Stack Overflow.

Should they do something more than just publish a statement, i.e. should they do something which will have a direct impact on the people in Ukraine?

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  • Thank you. I have tried on Stackoverflow Meta 2 days ago with the proposition to close the Stack Overflow for Russians, but was closed as not related to Stack Overflow (which I don't agree with, but closed means "you can't speak anymore"). But on the other hand this question is asked in different way and is not so controversial I think (however something similar is on GitHub: github.com/github/feedback/discussions/12042, however I had also make different proposition in the meantime: github.com/github/feedback/discussions/12152)
    – gss
    Commented Feb 27, 2022 at 11:06
  • @Robert Longson thank you, didn't see it. However, I see the post you send do not receives valuable input from community as moderators could say and my question is different - I don't propose anything specific. Hope community will be more open in this case.
    – gss
    Commented Feb 27, 2022 at 11:08
  • 2
    Is Oberflow some attempt to insult Stack Overflow? Because if you hope to gather support by insulting the site, you just get the opposite. Commented Feb 27, 2022 at 11:13
  • Well, lacking an army, navy, air force and nuclear weapons, what do you suggest that a corporate entity armed with a database of software Q&A could do? DDoS the tanks? Commented Feb 27, 2022 at 11:14
  • 2
    @MartinJames in theory, banning people from Russia from using Stack Overflow would hurt Russia, and might even have some impact. Commented Feb 27, 2022 at 11:15
  • @RobertLongson one time, sure. But it's more than one. Commented Feb 27, 2022 at 11:16
  • I have decided to highlight the part of my questions regarding "what SO can do and what happens when SO do nothing".
    – gss
    Commented Feb 27, 2022 at 11:16
  • 4
    Always look on the bright side of life - if the fighting spills over into NATO countries and we all get sucked into WWIII, we won't have to deal with 'Homework Sunday' assignment dumps any more:) Commented Feb 27, 2022 at 11:29
  • I would like to very, very clearly point out that voting to close this question because of being opinion-based in unfair. The tag "ethics" is used for this kind of questions, like "whether it's OK to help someone create viruses, or pirate software". Also, this is not a question "generally, what should be done...", but "taking into account fact1, fact2 etc., does these facts make something morally obligatory?"
    – gss
    Commented Feb 27, 2022 at 11:50
  • 17
    @ShadowWizardHatesOmicron arguably, it'd mostly hurt the average person, and I'm sure the propaganda machine will find a way to frame it as the west being evil. The bulk of the sanctions so far have actively been targeting the government for a reason. Or, as many people have put it, Putin != Russia. There's also lots of protests already. I fail to see how cutting Russians out of SO (and other major dev sites) is going to do anything but provide more cannon fodder for Putin's propaganda machine Commented Feb 27, 2022 at 11:56
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    @Zoe don't get me wrong, I agree with you, but I also see the other side view. Those average people who will get hurt might go and protest, demanding their leaders to stop, so they can use SO again. Commented Feb 27, 2022 at 12:01
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    I'll argue there's no way to really win here. The best SO can do is post a statement, and potentially send some financial support to Ukraine. But it's not like they have a couple hundred million they can send to Ukraine, and they're not exactly the type of organization that can just send some people to Poland or whatever to help with the humanitarian side of things. Any blocks are gonna get converted to propaganda, and doing nothing, as evidenced by this question, gets perceived as ignoring it for money. Commented Feb 27, 2022 at 12:22
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    @ZoestandswithUkraine you could post this as an answer. Your comment received 4 likes, including from me, and I would be happy to see this as an answer, especially since this question is close to being closed because of opinion-based. Your answer show that it is possible to write a good answer which community agree with.
    – gss
    Commented Feb 27, 2022 at 13:21
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    Vote to reopen. Have never understood the validity of the opinion-based close reason on meta. Half of the discussions here are opinion-based. This only looks like a try to stifle a discussion that some people don't like. It's much better to express disagreement in an answer instead. Commented Mar 1, 2022 at 7:21
  • 5
    For the record, SO has now posted their stance. Commented Mar 2, 2022 at 19:38

2 Answers 2

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There is a moral obligation for everyone to do what they can to avoid bloodshed and aggression everywhere. Now Stack Overflow is a collaborative effort. It works best when it's completely apolitical, i.e. serves people everywhere equally. In that we should be fully aware that it can do both good and bad, please don't entertain any illusion there.

Example: Maybe Russian military attack systems were programmed with the help of knowledge from Stack Overflow and that might have increased their efficacy. Given the large amount of knowledge stored here and the large number of visits to Stack Overflow, that might even be very likely.

I don't know exactly what you have in mind, but if for example, Stack Overflow were to temporarily switch off its Russian language localized site or restrict access to the English main site based on geography, I would have some sympathies for that and would say we should discuss and consider it.

That would put Russia on one level as for example Iran, but well, I think that might be kind of appropriate.

Given that Stack Overflow Inc. is a private owned company, I do not think that to be very likely though. Morality for companies has yet to be developed.

On the other hand, Stack Overflow can hardly do something significant about wars. The software used now is already written. If you really want to do something, your countries' government is a much bigger factor. Petition to your government and use your political influence as citizen to make a small positive change in the world.

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  • 16
    "There is a moral obligation for everyone to do what they can to avoid bloodshed and aggression everywhere." Eh, no. For example, I have no obligation to intervene in any middle-eastern conflict. "Morality" rhetoric aside, all you're advocating for, is punishing the subjects of a crazy man.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Feb 27, 2022 at 16:42
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    More than >70% of "the subjects" support the "crazy man".
    – Dannie P
    Commented Mar 21, 2022 at 11:38
  • @Trilarion when it comes to domestic issues, the answer seems to be no meta.stackexchange.com/q/384811 Commented Dec 16, 2022 at 14:21
  • @user2284570 How do you know that? There is no answer yet to the question you link to. Commented Dec 16, 2022 at 16:23
  • @user2284570 a question being closed by the community isn't an indication of the company's stance.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Dec 16, 2022 at 16:30
  • @KevinB worst! It explains how the community or moderators would react to such content on the legal side. Commented Dec 16, 2022 at 18:10
  • @Trilarion content mad downvoted. Not only asking such content not allowed but talking about allowing it not allowed too, Commented Dec 16, 2022 at 18:12
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    @user2284570 i downvoted your question because it was unclear to me, as I indicated in the comments. That's how this site works. The question is still in a state that seems pretty useless to me, as it's not up to the community to decide what the company bans, and in legality cases such as the US banning something, that's more up to SO's lawyers than the SO team or the community.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Dec 16, 2022 at 18:22
  • Downvoting is for whatever reason i feel like clicking the downvote button for, realistically. But we prefer it be used to indicate usefulness and clarity, as indicated by the downvote tooltip and help articles. Do note that the tooltip is different for questions vs answers.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Dec 16, 2022 at 18:26
  • @KevinB you didn t told in the comment what was unclear for you (you didn t wrote a comment at all). Downvoting is for things not useful (since you disagree, please reread the question tooltip). Everything in the question is required to not be biased. And asking a question with the relevant staff tag is how stack exchange could clarify (except when it s closed). Commented Dec 16, 2022 at 18:29
  • 1
    @user2284570 "content mad downvoted." That can have different reasons. Don't judge content on meta by the score (alone). Just wait for answers. If the question remains open (and I voted for it) an answer might eventually come (or if not you also have kind of an answer). For example this answer here has a negative score but I don't mind. I still stand 100% behind it. In my eyes it's the right answer, regardless of what others think. Your question has 0 answers, so officially it's still open. However, I think the company doesn't care enough about your issue. Commented Dec 16, 2022 at 21:35
44

I don't know how many downvotes this answer would collect, but allow me to show you the situation from the other side.

As you may have deduced, I am Russian. Although I am not pleased with this fact, I cannot do much about it. I did not vote for Putin, nor for his political party, and I do not approve what is happening right now. Some of my relatives live in Ukraine (in Lugansk, to be precise) and, as you can imagine, having a war conflict near their house goes strictly against my interests. And my situation is not uncommon, many other Russians have relatives and/or friends on the other side, this is just a legacy of the Soviet Union.

It may come as a surprise, but a large group of locals actually cheer sanctions if they are directed at the ruling party. Hell, some even tried to propose new ones. The government responded with a law, clarifying such actions as a crime. However, this particular proposal won't hurt the right people in the slightest, not mentioning that IP address filters are fairly useless in case of Russia. Our government has an infamous habit to block unwanted websites, so even the people who are not familiar with computer science do know how to use VPN or TOR to bypass restrictions.

So the only people who would get affected are the SO contributors, like myself. And what have I done to deserve such treatment? I heard many thanks said to me on this website and it is extremely frustrating to face the fact that in one day I have become a villain in public opinion, just because I live in this country.

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  • 4
    Hi, thank you for your voice. I would like to say that I'm against closing SO for Russians. I just can't understand how SO cannot even make a statement about all of this.
    – gss
    Commented Feb 27, 2022 at 16:08
  • 4
    @gss Oh, I must have misread your intentions with all the sudden hatred I see everywhere. I beg your pardon.
    – anemyte
    Commented Feb 27, 2022 at 16:18
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    @gss Stack Overflow is not a political platform. That's why.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Feb 27, 2022 at 16:26
  • @Cebrus nice argument. You can say this Ukrainians, for example: "Do you want to go shop and can't? Just say 'this is not a political shopping!'.
    – gss
    Commented Feb 27, 2022 at 16:30
  • 8
    Oh, that "political shopping" again, @gss... That's not even close to being the same. You're comparing physical danger to political statements. There's nothing political about buying a carton of eggs. They may not be able to because of the war, but that doesn't mean buying eggs is an anti-<country> statement.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Feb 27, 2022 at 16:43
  • 1
    If you're unwilling to discuss this with me, then I suggest you don't reply to me, @gss. I'm free to answer you, if you reply to me.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Feb 27, 2022 at 16:48
  • @Cerbrus to be honest, I could discuss with you, but the problem is that you have much more power than I and you showing this very often sinve 2 days. This is not equal situation.
    – gss
    Commented Feb 27, 2022 at 16:57
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    What privileges I have earned on SO is pretty irrelevant to us having a discussion about SO not being the place for political statements.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Feb 27, 2022 at 17:00
  • 3
    My actions here have good reasons, and most of them require a community consensus (I'm not unilaterally deleting stuff)
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Feb 27, 2022 at 17:05
  • 3
    @gss "you are closing or hiding the questions without the good reasons." to be clear - Cerbrus cannot unilaterally delete posts. It takes at least three users to vote for deletion. Cerbrus is also unable to unilaterally close posts. It takes five users to vote for closure. Only diamond mods can do these actions with one vote. There is a special case for gold badge holders - they can close as a duplicate using a single vote. Cerbrus has one in discussion. However, this hasn't been used recently.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Feb 27, 2022 at 19:02
  • 1
    @VLAZ thank you for answer. To be honest, I feel confused because I really do not feel that some actions performed here by some people are fair, but probably it is because of my mood. Sorry, Cerbrus.
    – gss
    Commented Feb 27, 2022 at 19:06
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    To be fair, I did gold-hammer a duplicate discussion posted by gss, but that was asking the same thing as the previous question.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Feb 27, 2022 at 19:43
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    It is easy to just put everyone in the same basket. After WW2 all Germans were nazis, at least in the public eye. During the pandemic people from China living overseas were suddenly all responsible for spreading the virus. You have to contain yourself, even in the worst of times. Keep thinking critically, not emotionally.
    – Gimby
    Commented Feb 28, 2022 at 10:26
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    I was going to ask this question, but this provided the answer I needed. My apologies for your troubling situation, I wish you and your family the best, hopefully Putin will be stopped somehow. I do not fault you for his actions. @Gimby especially in the worst of times. People of Asian descent are still being attacked by total strangers, it's as pointless as it is horrible. Commented Mar 1, 2022 at 4:28
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    Thank-you for your insightful answer. From my vantage point, the vast majority of people don't view the war as 'Russia against Ukraine' but rather view the war as 'Putin against Humanity'.
    – Marcy
    Commented Mar 28, 2022 at 18:11

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