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Moderator note: This will be left up for a time while we debate a larger rule change. Do not take this as approval of the personal mentions of activity below (personal attack comments have been deleted). Unfortunately, more posts like this will be necessary to discuss how to treat individual posts in a delete/undelete cycle if rules do not change.

Well, here we are again folks, with IBAN Regex Template? a similar style war with the common users from How should this specific regex question close-reopen war end?.

Here is the Timeline.

This time, @RavinderSingh13 managed to speed-post a regex answer (using a provably incorrect pattern, according to the OP's requirements) in just 3 minutes (hardly enough time to search SO to see if the question was a duplicate).

Then @NigelRen appropriately hammered the page closed with a canon that contains the sought/required pattern in two answers.

/^[A-Z]{2}[0-9]{2}[A-Z0-9]{1,30}$/

...for those who cannot read regex: the full length string must contain only -- 2 letters, then 2 digits, then 1 to 30 occurrences of digits or letters.
Okay, this pattern isn't literally case sensitive, but the new OP understands the i flag and the answer in the canon is preparing the string by converting it to all uppercase.

It is a canonical page that is VERY easy to find by title alone. I mean what words would you search with?!? Validate IBAN PHP

Don't like this one? There is another canon too for javascript. There is a regex canon too that has a simple regex in the comment under the question.

Thank goodness we have canons to prevent 10's of individual IBAN questions for each individual region.

Nope, not good enough, it seems. @RavinderSingh13 voted to reopen, then @anubhava used his gold php badge to un-hammer the page back open!

Then the next day, @AdrianMole voted to re-close the question with the same duplicate, and @oguzismail and I voted to close the question as Unclear. Resulting in an Unclear closure. I find this fair because the OP didn't specify which region they were catering for -- it was literally missing vital details.

After a good 7 days of being closed, @oguzismail, @mck, and I voted to delete the page. Why should this Unclear page be removed for Stack Overflow?

  1. the question was under-researched and Unclear
  2. perhaps more importantly, the answer was provably incorrect/misleading and the upvotes on the bad answer were only going to confuse researchers
  3. there is NOTHING stopping @RavinderSingh13 from posting an answer on the canon if he thinks that something needs to be added

Furthermore, to properly validate an IBAN string, you need to perform mathematical operations -- which regex alone is not suited for. Basically the whole page was flawed from the start -- the OP did not fully understand the task and therefore asked for half of a solution.

This is wasting the time of content curators. I should be spending my time with my family and/or sleeping -- not writing meta posts about the same recurring problem. So what do I want to know?

  1. What can be done to change the behavior of the same knowledgeable regex-tag contributors who refuse to close what should be closed and persistently re-open/un-delete content that should stay closed/deleted?
  2. If these teammates like-minded users refuse to modify their behaviors to put content curation before their own rep gain, what is Stack Overflow or SO Mods willing to do to address this situation?

I am not talking about users that make an erroneous decisions from time to time. I am talking about users that are biased against closing and deleting AND deliberatly/proactively take steps to reopen, un-delete, and upvote so that content stays on SO instead of being Roomba'ed.

At the point of posting this meta-question, there are 2 un-delete votes on the page, so I foresee more unnecessary warring.

p.s. I don't often swim in the sql tag pool, but I am told that that space also suffers from the same scenario.

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    @mickmackusa, I really didn't think, it was NOT clear question. Since OP has accepted the answer and OP has given all information was needed to be there for a BASE question. information which folks were asking is additional information, which could be given by OP. I have no issues in closing it as a dupe but since OP didn't confirm anything on it, why don't we give benefit of doubt to the question. I really don't want to fight on this one, since its though time going on for whole world and my family too. I have voted to delete this answer now. Please be safe and stay healthy. GOD bless all. Commented May 23, 2021 at 15:37
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    @RavinderSingh13 OP (or voters for that matter) rarely knows what is the correct answer. I've posted a wrong answer and got accepted and upvoted. It just looked correct superficially. Afterwards, someone commented the mistake and I fixed it. So, don't dismiss the fact that your answer can be wrong just because votes/accepts.
    – Braiam
    Commented May 23, 2021 at 15:40
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    It's not just PHP regex:( This is the C equivalent that is posted so often that it is notorious, (yes, it's in the FAQ/wiki and has been for years). It's bad code, implemented badly and easily avoided. This thing appears like clockwork every 'Homework Sunday' stackoverflow.com/q/67651085/758133. There should be a close hammer for 'you did not bother to check the FAQ before posting'. Commented May 23, 2021 at 15:44
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    If I'm not mistaken the question was "So far I've got this, any feedback?", so the OP wants to know wether their solution matches the problem they describe. The duplicate provides a working solution for the same requirements so the OP could just compare their solution with the one in the dupe, so I agree with (1). I don't see how the answer provided was incorrect, also giving tailored advice to the mistakes the OP made is probably more helpful to the OP than the dupe, so I disagree with (2) and (3). Commented May 23, 2021 at 18:23
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    That said I'm wondering why a "bad answer" (disagree, see above) justifies deleting the question. I'm not going to vote to undelete, as I don't see any point in continuing the open/close/delete war. Let's settle this on Meta first. Commented May 23, 2021 at 18:28
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    Question is locked for now. Prevents more Meta effect
    – Machavity Mod
    Commented May 23, 2021 at 19:45
  • @Jonas the answer is provably incorrect because it requires 30 alphanumeric characters at the end, not 1 to 30 alphanumeric characters at the end. This is a mistake that several upvoters overlooked AND I left a comment clatifying this BUT my vital comment under the answer has been removed by some user(s). Commented May 23, 2021 at 20:40
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    I have no issues in closing it as a dupe @RavinderSingh12 then why did you vote to reopen when it was initially hammered? You see the timeline, right? Also the first comment under the question from you clearly states your lack of support for the duplicate. Commented May 23, 2021 at 20:45
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    @mickmackusa, information which folks were asking is additional information, which could be given by OP. I have no issues in closing it as a dupe but since OP didn't confirm anything on it, why don't we give benefit of doubt to the question. I believe you missed my point here(let me rephrase in case I was not clear), what I meant was, if OP gives/adds information on what was asked and then if we see its near to canonical answer(which I don't think in this specific case) we could make it dupe. Thank you. Commented May 23, 2021 at 21:13
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    Something I have never seen anyone explicitly mention is that regex questions seem to be unique in how much they attract “puzzle solvers”—people who answer regex questions because they’re a fun challenge that’s hard to resist, regardless of whether a regex is a good solution and regardless of whether there are duplicates. The overall quality of Stack Overflow has little or no intersection with this urge to solve a regex puzzle.
    – VGR
    Commented May 23, 2021 at 21:14
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    @VGR we all fall on that, then we outgrew it.
    – Braiam
    Commented May 23, 2021 at 21:27
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    @VGR sorry but just because something is interesting, doesn't give license to ignore the fact that the page should be closed. The simple regex which offers superficial validation for the input string was provided more than once in the canon. Commented May 23, 2021 at 21:57
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    @Rav we have canons on SO for a reason -- they prevent needing n solutions to the same general questions. Can you say that you bothered to look for a duplicate before answering? Or did you just slam that answer in? This is 2021. 99% of all sufficiently narrow questions are duplicates and have been for years. This is an inevitable product of feverish Q&A involving millions of people for more than a decade. If the canon needs help, help the canon. Commented May 23, 2021 at 22:08
  • I am locking this because, as the folks who flagged this noted, it does get personal fairly quickly. I'm not going to delete it because I need it as an object lesson for my proposed rule change (this is an ideal example of where things are headed if we don't change things). If you have any comments or suggestions about the rule change in general, please post there.
    – Machavity Mod
    Commented May 24, 2021 at 1:13

2 Answers 2

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I prefer it to be just simply deleted. It's based on a false premise, which you note, on the question itself. The answer doesn't try to address it and there are better examples of this question elsewhere.

Frankly, there's no redeeming quality on that entire post (it's not even a good signpost), which is the only thing that saves it from deletion. Remember, we don't remove good content. That's not good content.

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    I don't often agree with you but for Remember, we don't remove good content. That's not good content. you earned an upvote solely for focusing on the post.
    – rene
    Commented May 23, 2021 at 19:51
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    @rene and yet is the basic tenet of all my arguments. What we disagree is in what constitute good content.
    – Braiam
    Commented May 23, 2021 at 19:58
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    Which false premise? Am I missing something here? Commented May 23, 2021 at 22:14
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    @JonasWilms that IBAN codes can be validated by regexes. They can not. The spec specifically tells you how to validate it. Any other method will only tell you "this looks like a IBAN". Validation requires that it accurately identifies it as one. This meta question notes that, as does the canonical question on the site, that makes reference to the algorithm to be used to validate it.
    – Braiam
    Commented May 23, 2021 at 22:18
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    Well the OP stated what he would consider an appropriate IBAN: "The structure is, 2 letters to define the country, followed by 2 digits, then up to 35 characters a-z0-9." ... The whole question is whether the Regex the OP posted validates those rules correctly. For sure that just validates syntax, not semantics, so does nearly every other Regex. If we go down that road, then basically all Regex questions can be deleted because you can't validate semantics with Regex (aka. you can't validate a context-sensitive language with a finite state acceptor). Commented May 23, 2021 at 23:18
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    Take e.g. this other question: Is it necessarily a bad question because it completely ignores soft bounces and hard bounces? I think a comment is fine in this situation to point out that further steps are needed for a proper validation. I don't think that justifies deletion. Commented May 23, 2021 at 23:18
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    @JonasWilms that's what is called a false premise. OP don't know what it doesn't know, and it's building their question on their flawed understanding. Some would call it an XY problem. I would call it a ZY problem, you think that problem Z is solved with Y, but you are actually trying to solve X.
    – Braiam
    Commented May 23, 2021 at 23:22
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    No it is not. Maybe the OP is currently in the process of writing his own IBAN validation, and is currently at the first step (and plans to do further steps, such as validating the checksum). I don't know that, so I wonder how you know that, given that your whole argument for deletion is based on that. Commented May 23, 2021 at 23:24
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    @JonasWilms That's one too many jumps. We can only evaluate the question as is presented to us. If it's like that why don't OP refer to this question which has the "first step", and also a complete implementation. Why OP seem to not even know that someone already solved that problem before? We, humans, usually make our problems seem bigger than they are. It's more likely that OP fell in that trap.
    – Braiam
    Commented May 23, 2021 at 23:37
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    There is absolutely no value in keeping the new page on Stack Overflow. The older canon provides the necessary regex AND explains how validation is done properly. In stark contrast, the new page has one provably incorrect answer which will only confuse and mislead the OP and new researchers -- this is all the justification anyone needs to vote to delete any content in the Stack Exchange Network. Neither the OP's question nor Rav's answer correctly uses regex to satisfy the brief. If the answer was corrected, it would just align with the canon. Zero value to SO. Commented May 24, 2021 at 11:12
  • Well @mickmackusa then head to the post because that good, careful, correct curation will be made harder.
    – Braiam
    Commented May 24, 2021 at 11:51
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I don’t think deleting is the right thing to do in these cases, or at least in this case.

The post in question, is not "bad" in the sense that we care about, it's just a duplicate. So close the question as a duplicate, and move on. The only thing that deleting does, is punish any answers that might have made it in before the question was deleted. We should not be deleting questions just to punish people answering these questions. We should delete a question based on the question itself.

Look, I get that people don’t like this behavior. People don’t like users posting obvious duplicates, and they certainly don’t like people answering obvious duplicates. But if someone does post an answer like this, and people think the answer is good enough to deserve an upvote, then I think the person who made the answer deserves the upvote. Again, the actions taken on the question (close, delete) should be judged based on the question itself, not on the answers, and not in service of punishing any that might choose to answer the question.

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    It is indeed weird when we tell people don't take votes personally while those users we call trusted members use their votes to change behaviors. if you don't understand how wrong that is ... a lost case.... we're doomed.
    – rene
    Commented May 23, 2021 at 18:41
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    I don't care for who does what. The content is pretty bad whatever you say. It has a fundamentally flawed premise and the answer don't even try to address it. I think that's the main issue here. The monkeys behind the keyboard not understanding that good quality content is king, shouldn't excuse that we can't have said quality.
    – Braiam
    Commented May 23, 2021 at 19:11
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    I would call that "enforcing quality standards", something that every user of the site must do.
    – Braiam
    Commented May 23, 2021 at 22:30
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    @IanKemp I suggest you stop while youre ahead
    – Zombo
    Commented May 23, 2021 at 22:48

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